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Customer Discussions > Christianity forum

everybody dies. whats with the idea of keeping really old people alive a few days longer when the money can do more for kids and people with a life yet to live.


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Showing 1-25 of 379 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Apr 9, 2012 10:13:03 PM PDT
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Posted on Apr 9, 2012 11:41:58 PM PDT
Jeff Marzano says:
I guess a related question is should people be allowed to die any time they want ?

Say a person is only 30 years old or something but they decide they don't want to live anymore. Should they be able to go to a doctor and get a lethal injection ?

Jeff Marzano

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 9, 2012 11:56:20 PM PDT
Re original post: It is a basic tenet of our society that human life, because it is irreplacable, is just about as ultimate a value as we have. Still, your point is not totally off the mark: there is no question that if we could keep someone alive and reasonably comfortable for $100 a year, that we would spend the money to do so. But, what if the sum is $10 million a year? No society could realistically afford such a sum for a significant percentage of the population. Which means that we must posit some number between those limits which is the value of a particular life -- and there is no requirement that such number be the same for everyone. And we have no good standard for determining such value in any case.

Civil juries are sometimes required to make exactly this judgment. Suppose that Ann, through negligence (texting on her iPhone) t-boned Bob's car, killing him. What is her resulting liability to his family? Juries vary in their decisions, but often a figure on the order of $1 million to $10 million may be awarded, depending on Bob's age, prospects, and family.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 9, 2012 11:58:51 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 10, 2012 12:07:00 AM PDT
I understand your reason for starting this list: it's to try and get thousands of responses so you can sit back and give yourself a round of applause. But the problem with your argument is that you presuppose that health care is to be a state concern, funded by taxpayers. So while your argument has a good grounding in Existentialism and Keynesian Economics, it fails the epistemological test: What makes you think that the State has any warrant to be involved in health care in the first place?

The Bible, which is authoritative on everything of which it speaks, and it speaks of everything either directly or by inference, denies the State the ability to administer health care, and the reason for the massive blow-out in health and welfare budgets is precisely because individuals, families, and Churches have abdicated the God-given roles in those areas, to be picked up by the State. In true Hegelian fashion, The State has become God walking on earth.

From the Keynesian perspective, which your argument is in line with even if you've never heard of Keynes, you are correct - the health care budget under Keynesian economic principles of every country on earth has blown out beyond retrieval, and so there has to be a line drawn in the sand at some point. Others here have posited that question, and they don't know where the line should be drawn any more than you do.

However, there is another school of thought which I have evidenced here: Austrian Economics, which denies the State the ability to do anything bar civil and criminal law. The answer to the health care and welfare budget blow-outs is not to start culling old people, but to take responsibility for our own health care via private health insurance. The answer, in short, is to get the State out of health care altogether.

So your argument falls flat on its face. It's bad economics, and even worse Biblical exegesis.

And just quickly, Scripture never said that 'your number is 70 years'. Moses was making what's commonly termed a 'generalization'.

Posted on Apr 10, 2012 12:02:39 AM PDT
Jeff Marzano says:
Moses could never have imagined how much health care would cost in 2012.

Jeff Marzano

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 10, 2012 12:15:49 AM PDT
Get a lethal injection? I would've thought a leap off The Gap would do just well, and it wouldn't cost the taxpayer a cent. Or just try swimming from one side of any river in the Territory to the other - bet you don't make it. Salt water crocs - best suicide trick on God's green earth.

There's a very good reason why most of the holes at Half Moon Bay Golf Club have huge OOB areas...

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 10, 2012 12:32:05 AM PDT
DocMMV says:
120 years whomp.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 10, 2012 12:40:05 AM PDT
DocMMV says:
Actually, that was Moses' lament. Because of their sin, men were only living to 70. 80 if they had the strength. This was during the time God was winnowing the field prior to allowing the Israelites to enter the promised land. Generations died in the desert because they placed their logic above their God.

Posted on Apr 10, 2012 3:03:26 AM PDT
Tammy says:
Two words. Living Will.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 10, 2012 4:51:42 AM PDT
Terry L says:
"Old people should only get pain pills and hospice.
We should not waste money on old people when it would keep younger ones from getting more & cheaper treatments."--whomper

How old are you?

When you have a costly medical problem sometime in the future, and you still want "Some committee of medical experts...to figure out" if you live or die, please get back to us.

Posted on Apr 10, 2012 5:11:55 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 10, 2012 7:43:48 AM PDT
SAGE2007 says:
Let me begin by being thankful for the opportunity to volunteer at a nursing home facility. As a one-on-one resident volunteer, I believe God has not forgotten, THE FORGOTTEN in America's nursing homes.

GOAL:
INCREASE NURSING HOME VOLUNTEERSHIP IN AMERICA

IT JUST TAKES ONE TO VISIT ONE!

WE CAN ALL DO THIS!

WHO WILL BE THERE TO GIVE YOU A SIP OF WATER?

Let me challenge America to look into the mirror of their old age, a reality check of what it to come! By changing our behavior today, we may change how our children and grandchildren care for us tomorrow, God's way or Hilter's way!

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 10, 2012 6:27:00 AM PDT
SAGE

you are not supposed to promote your books in these forums
that is AMAZON'S RULE not mine

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 10, 2012 6:32:15 AM PDT
SAGE2007 says:
Sorry, to anxious, did not read the rules. Even without the book, the message is the same. Message is more important than the book. Thank you for the heads up

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 10, 2012 8:31:29 AM PDT
Jeff Marzano says:
Craig A. Manning says:

[Get a lethal injection ?]

Well I guess what I said isn't exactly the same thing.

The original question was should life be preserved indefinitely.

Getting a lethal injection would be killing someone who is healthy.

Doesn't Oregon have a euthanasia program where someone who is ill can tell the doctor to kill them ?

Jeff Marzano

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 10, 2012 1:36:12 PM PDT
Joe Anthony says:
Whomper says to SAGE:

"you are not supposed to promote your books in these forums...that is AMAZON'S RULE not mine"

I say:

If it's "Amazon's rule" then why not let Amazon enforce it? I can't blame "SAGE" for trying to make a buck. We're all in this bad ecomony together.

I don't know about you Whomper. You go around saying what a good Christian you are and you're always talking about Jesus and everything and then you want to refuse medication to people over seventy and stop people from making a little money in a bad economy.

Who appointed you as Amazon's hall monitor?

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 10, 2012 1:43:14 PM PDT
Max Flash says:
CAM: The Bible, which is authoritative on everything of which it speaks, and it speaks of everything either directly or by inference, denies the State the ability to administer health care,

Max: Where exactly does it do this?

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 10, 2012 1:59:26 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 10, 2012 2:14:05 PM PDT
Jeff Marzano says:
I had this message saved about amazon's authors forum.

Amazon Community Team says:
(AMAZON OFFICIAL)

Amazon recently created a new community for authors. The `Meet Our Authors' community is designed to give authors a space to engage with one another and promote their latest and greatest works.

With the advent of the new community, we will no longer allow self promotional posts in other communities. Starting on Saturday, May 14th, all "shameless self promotion" activity will be limited to the `Meet Our Authors' community. Promotional threads outside of these forums will be removed.

We invite authors and interested readers to come join the discussion at:

http://www.amazon.com/forum/meet%20our%20authors

We look forward to seeing you!

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 10, 2012 2:09:41 PM PDT
SAGE2007 says:
Thank you!

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 10, 2012 2:11:49 PM PDT
SAGE2007 says:
Again, my haste was in getting the message of forgotten seniors out more than to make a buck. Thanks again for your input and direction. Am new at this. Blessings to all

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 10, 2012 2:14:35 PM PDT
Joe Anthony says:
@SAGE; re:nursing homes:

I don't know if I get the whole idea of people placing thier parents in nursing homes. Consider the idea that your mother who once fed you and changed your diapers has become frail, weak and incontinent. How could a person not do for thier mother what she once did for you?

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 10, 2012 2:21:23 PM PDT
SAGE2007 says:
I respect your response. However, if you vounteer at a nursing home, if not initially one on one but in the group setting, you will see that for some, if not many, the burden is beyond somes ability, say a small framed daughter with a larger mother or father, having to work several jobs to cover the expenses. Not promoting the book but some of that is explained. I agree that many of us have your conviction but for some hafter years of trying, a breaking point occurs and this next step may be necessary. Again, it takes one to visit one. Who will be there to give you a drink of water. Do unto other. Blessings

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 10, 2012 2:23:05 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 10, 2012 3:41:13 PM PDT
Joe Anthony says:
@SAGE:

I understand that you probably didn't write your book in order to make a buck. Indeed, the true measure of what a book is worth lies in the sincerity of the author; and at this point, I have no reason to doubt your sincereity. In the same token, I also realize that we all must earn a living.

I agree that there are a lot of lonely old souls being stuffed away in nursing homes. I think it's a reflection of the youth-oriented culture we live in. The elderly ought to be revered for their wisdom and the dues that they paid to society. Instead, adult children place the father who busted his but to put his kids through school and the mother who stayed up all night while they were sick, in nursing homes where strangers end up caring for them.

The commandment to honor thy father and mother is the only one that comes with a promise...and he (or she) shall live a long and prosperous life.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 10, 2012 2:30:42 PM PDT
reply to Joe Anthony's post:

and i should not report an attempted murder cause its cops rule ?

dont report a theft because they didnt mug me ?

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 10, 2012 2:31:38 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 10, 2012 2:33:07 PM PDT
Lj3d says:
Lol, no wonder you don't think there is any hope for America, or that power lines could be more efficient. Your way too worried about the bottom line. Considering the number of Americans in general doing without health care, I don't see how anyone can imagine money is being wasted that much!

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 10, 2012 2:32:06 PM PDT
reply to DocMMV's post:

using roman numerals is hard to do :)
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Discussion in:  Christianity forum
Participants:  38
Total posts:  379
Initial post:  Apr 9, 2012
Latest post:  Apr 23, 2012

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