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Does voting for non Christian or false Christians equate to a mortal sin?


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Initial post: Apr 27, 2012 11:14:32 AM PDT
Can Christians vote for false Christians or non Christians without jeopardizing their immortal souls?

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 27, 2012 11:31:10 AM PDT
Rev. Otter says:
<<false Christians or non Christians>>

let me know how what objective criteria you're using to determine who is who, while i think of an answer. :)

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 27, 2012 11:40:25 AM PDT
S. Kessler says:
It's rather stunning that someone should even ask this question.

Posted on Apr 27, 2012 11:45:45 AM PDT
The 27 books of the New Covenant/New Testament is the measure. Perhaps, I should first have asked, is there anything in the Gospel that prohibits Christians from voting or being involved in government? - and then progress from there, rather than trying to establish "what a Christian is"; assuming that all who claim to be Christian would agree that, a Christian is what God says a Christian is. So does the Gospel of Jesus Christ tell us to vote or not vote? Or how to vote? Are their implicit instructions? in addition to explicit?

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 27, 2012 11:58:55 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 27, 2012 11:59:57 AM PDT
Cal Engime says:
It was written under an absolute monarchy (which it recommends submitting to). Why would it contain advice about how to vote?

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 27, 2012 12:03:21 PM PDT
Craig says:
Render unto Caesar what is Caesars. I believe it is civic duty to vote.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 27, 2012 12:07:56 PM PDT
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In reply to an earlier post on Apr 27, 2012 12:11:13 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 27, 2012 1:18:09 PM PDT
The currency of the empire belongs to Caesar, if I use what is Caesar's then I must render to Caesar usury? How does this mandate or* imply that I must vote? or that I must not vote?

*edit - typo: of changed to or

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 27, 2012 12:12:49 PM PDT
Cal Engime says:
Romans 13 and Matthew 22:15-22 come to mind as verses saying to submit to the authorities and pay your taxes.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 27, 2012 12:20:39 PM PDT
Craig says:
No mandates, I was giving my opinion. I think you are looking at the whole thing to literally, but that is also only my opinion.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 27, 2012 12:22:22 PM PDT
Rev. Otter says:
<<It's rather stunning that someone should even ask this question.>>

my bad, i keep forgetting that all "false Christians" wear nametags. :)

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 27, 2012 12:51:31 PM PDT
S. Kessler says:
Not you bad, Rev. James bad. ;-). Rather moronic, actually. I liked it when Cal pointed out that the NT was written at a time when absolute monarchy ruled, therefore the issue of voting would be irrelevant, and James asked for a scriptural reference for that. I guess actual history isn't good enough for him.

Posted on Apr 27, 2012 12:54:39 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 27, 2012 12:56:51 PM PDT
Book worm says:
Jesus Christ and the early Christians did not vote or interfere with human governments, which many of the governments put them to death, persecuted them, and their family.
1. (John 6:15) 15 Therefore Jesus, knowing they were about to come and
seize him to make him king, withdrew again into the mountain all alone.
2. (John 17:16) 16 They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of
the world.
3. (John 18:36) 36 Jesus answered: "My kingdom is no part of this world. If
my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I
should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this
source."
4. (James 1:27) 27 The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the
standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in
their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world.
5. (James 4:4) 4 Adulteresses, do YOU not know that the friendship with
the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the
world is constituting himself an enemy of God.

They recognized the fact that some form of government is necessary for the existence of society, and they never fomented revolution or civil disobedience. (Ro 13:1-7; Tit 3:1) Jesus set forth the guiding principle for true worshipers of God to follow when he said: "Pay back, therefore, Caesar's things to Caesar, but God's things to God." (Mt 22:21) This principle enabled the early Christians (and Christians since then) to maintain a right balance as to relations with the two authorities, that of the civil governments and that of God. Jesus showed further that his position while on earth, and therefore that of his disciples, was not one of fighting against the "Caesar" governments but, rather, one of compliance with their regulations THAT DID NOT CONFLICT WITH GOD'S LAW.

Pilate himself recognized this fact when he said: "I find no fault in him." (Joh 18:38) The apostles followed Jesus' example.-Ac 4:19, 20; 5:29; 24:16; 25:10, 11, 18, 19, 25; 26:31, 32;
1. (Acts 5:29) 29 In answer Peter and the [other] apostles said: "We must obey God as ruler rather than men.
2. (Acts 4:19, 20) 19 But in reply Peter and John said to them: "Whether it is righteous in the sight of God to listen to YOU rather than to God, judge for yourselves. 20 But as for us, we cannot stop speaking about the things we have seen and heard."

Satan offered Jesus for an act of worship "all the kingdoms of the world and their glory". It was clear then and now that, they all belong to Satan, all of them.

1. (Matthew 4:8, 10) 8 Again the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, 10 Then Jesus said to him: "Go away, Satan! For it is written, `It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.'"

All earthly governments, their supporters, the world are depicted to be against God, at which will have to stand and fight against God at Armageddon, and will all be destroyed,
The Bible pictures world governments as "beasts" and says that they get their authority from the Dragon, Satan the Devil. God has permitted them to remain and has limited their scope and duration of rule, in harmony with his purpose.-Da chaps 7, 8; Re chaps 13, 17; Da 4:25, 35; Joh 19:11; Ac 17:26; 2Co 4:3, 4;
* (Daniel 2:44) 44 "And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;

BY not supporting or voting, such as Jesus and the early Christians, we give all support and glory to GOD, and his heavenly Kingdom.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 27, 2012 1:20:45 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 27, 2012 1:21:07 PM PDT
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Posted on Apr 27, 2012 1:34:49 PM PDT
Eric Pyle says:
It's a Christian's duty in this world to feed the hungry, comfort the sick, etc.

If your vote would help to accomplish these things, I think you should vote.

If you vote to do the opposite of those things, it an anti-Christian gesture.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 27, 2012 1:42:38 PM PDT
Book worm says:
But their is not scriptural reference to indicate Jesus or his disciples were involved with voting, or politics, even when it cost them their lives. Today many vote for reform, social security, etc., but it would of been life and death in Jesus times, instead Jesus showed us to remain nuetral in all wordly governments, theryby giving full support only Gods kingdom.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 27, 2012 1:43:34 PM PDT
Eric Pyle says:
So if you have a chance toward contributing to feeding the poor, it's OK to pass it up?

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 27, 2012 1:51:10 PM PDT
Book worm says:
Feeding the poor has nothing to do with voting or getting involved with politics.

Jesus told us to feed the hungry, help the orphans, the widows, etc. If you find any scriptural reference that demonstrated Jesus or any other of his disciples were mixed in politics or voting, please share. Unfortanately you will find the opposite, even when soldiers were baptized by Jesus and his disciples they left thier position.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 27, 2012 2:02:10 PM PDT
Eric Pyle says:
Book worm,

Things were different in those days. As has been pointed out on this thread, there was no voting.

There is no verse in the Bible that says "You should vote for whomever will feed the hungry, not for the ones who are killing innocent people." Does this mean that you shouldn't vote for the ones who want to feed the hungry? Is it against Christian principles to support people who wish to use government for good rather than for ill?

Posted on Apr 27, 2012 2:07:20 PM PDT
Eric Pyle says:
Many Catholics think that helping the poor may be assisted by government, and that action supporting such programs is consistent with their religion:

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/222003-catholic-bishops-criticize-ryan-budget-cuts-to-food-stamps

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 27, 2012 2:08:25 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 27, 2012 2:18:34 PM PDT
Book worm says:
Their are many scriptural reference to show Jesus did not get involved with politics, We call it "voting", that renders to choose and give support to one or another, or someone within our own faith.

Jesus, could of easily of supported the better candidate or choosen one, or even one of his disciples in office. This would of helped his disciples that he knew he was leaving behind that would also suffer, tortured, and even put to death, for following his instructions to preach the good news.

They even wanted to make Jesus an earthly king, he left before that happened, his full support and allegiance was to God's kingdom, he showed us to remain completely nuetral, as to not share in their sins.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 27, 2012 2:21:50 PM PDT
Eric Pyle says:
<<Jesus, could of easily of supported the better candidate or choosen one, or even one of his disciples in office.>>

In what way could he have done this? Was Peter eligible for a position in Roman imperial government?

<<he showed us to remain completely nuetral>>

So given the chance to support a plan to feed the hungry, or given the chance to oppose killing innocent people, we are to ignore that chance?

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 27, 2012 2:43:40 PM PDT
Book worm says:
* (2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,

You ask-So given the chance to support a plan to feed the hungry, or given the chance to oppose killing innocent people, we are to ignore that chance?

Jesus answered that for us.

* (John 18:36) 36 Jesus answered: "My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source."

Jesus wanted his followers to live, not share the destruction with this evil world. So he urged them, not to participate in politics, but to stay separate from the world. He set the example himself and always lived up to his words:

* (John 17:16) . . . They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.
Supporting candidates/Voting, then not only do you share in the good they do, feed the hugry, but s the bible says not share in their sins, then they would also share in all the other things that occur, many which are against bible guidelines.
On one occasion the populace of Galilee wanted Jesus to plunge into politics. The people saw that Jesus was righteous and wise and they realized that he would make the ideal political ruler. They may have felt that Jesus was merely throwing away his opportunities by preaching a future kingdom when he could have a kingdom right there and then. How did Jesus respond to the crowd's popular draft? "Therefore Jesus, realizing they were about to come and seize him to make him king, withdrew again into the mountain all alone." No politics for Jesus!-John 6:15, NW.

No matter what government you vote or support for, they will ALL be gathered against GOD.
* (Revelation 16:13, 14) . . .. 14 They are, in fact, expressions inspired by demons and perform signs, and they go forth to the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to gather them together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty.

To understand one reason why clergymen mix in politics, let us consider some first-century religious leaders. These men, the high priest and members of the Pharisees and the Sadducees, made up the Jewish high courts. Being upset over Jesus' having resurrected Lazarus, they reasoned: "If we let [Jesus] alone this way, they will all put faith in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation."-John 11:48.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 27, 2012 2:56:02 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 27, 2012 2:59:05 PM PDT
Book worm says:
Eric
not only is there many scriptural refrerence to show Jesus and his disciples nuetrality towards any human government, supporting, or running for office, thier is also many historical facts.

Flag Salute, Anthems and Voting
Early Christianity was little understood and was regarded with little favor by those who ruled the world. . . . Christians refused to share certain duties of Roman citizens. . . . They would not hold political office."-On the Road to Civilization, A World History (1937), by Albert K. Heckel and James G. Sigman, pages 237, 238.
"The Roman government called the Christians enemies of the state. They would not serve in the Roman army. They refused to salute the emperor's statue, which meant the same to Roman society that a nation's flag does to citizens today. They were loyal only to their religion."-Man-His World and Cultures (1974), by Edith McCall, Evalyn Rapparlie and Jack Spatafora, pages 67, 68.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 27, 2012 3:18:51 PM PDT
Craig says:
Do you ONLY do according to the scripture? There is no scripture about voting that I know of. I was given a brain, and the Holy Spirit to help me. The scripture is silent on many things, and not black or white about many other things. My conscience tells me it is my civic duty to vote. I have no right to complain about my government otherwise.
BTW, I like to complain about my government. ;-)
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Discussion in:  Christianity forum
Participants:  33
Total posts:  240
Initial post:  Apr 27, 2012
Latest post:  Jun 2, 2012

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