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Virginity-Why is it so important?


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Posted on Jul 22, 2012 1:09:28 PM PDT
You guys have a good day.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 22, 2012 1:11:03 PM PDT
When you come back, will you be willing to address my posts?

Posted on Jul 22, 2012 1:18:43 PM PDT
Ostrova says:
"Do you think we are in better shape as a society than we were 10 years ago? 20 years ago? 50 years ago? When divorce was rare"
Barry, just because people were more likely to stay married doesn't mean those marriages were good. There was still cheating, wife-beating, alcoholism, homosexuals trying to be straight. Women who left their husbands were unlikely to get credit in their own names, or to get decent jobs.
" when families ate together and parents knew where their kids were and what they were doing,"
not necessarily--what if your parents worked late or just didn't want to eat with the kids?
"when you rarely if ever knew of someone that had gone to jail personally",--maybe where YOU lived
" when people watched out for their neighbors" --oh, yes!!in Good Old Nazi Germany!!
"The family is the building block of societal values. When the family doesn't hold up its end of the bargain, we all reap the rewards."

And all too often that's meant turning unmarried and pregnant daughters out of the house, burning crosses on black families' lawns, and letting homosexuals know God hates them. Through all those golden eras.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 22, 2012 1:21:36 PM PDT
Ostrova says:
"When you come back, will you be willing to address my posts?"

Uhhh, Mike. I don't think he's coming back. I think he's going to Disneyland.
If he does, the joke's on him: they've got special deals for gays now! I bet they think the castle is just fabu!

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 22, 2012 1:22:56 PM PDT
"And all too often that's meant turning unmarried and pregnant daughters out of the house, burning crosses on black families' lawns, and letting homosexuals know God hates them. Through all those golden eras."

Exactly.

We need a *new* moral / ethical structure, one that champions equality, justice, and opportunity for *everyone*, one that doesn't lock a person into a particular social role, one that doesn't limit, or diminish, or discriminate.

We need a framework that values families... *all kinds* of families.

We need a framework that values and supports people... *all* people.

We need to rise above our instincts for tribalism and social hierarchy.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 22, 2012 1:47:13 PM PDT
Amber says:
The world has taken what was supposed to be shared between two people, husband and wife, and perverted it in about every way imagineable. Within the context of marriage, it is a beautiful thing that God created. But outside of that, there is no lasting fulfillment. It is wrong, per scripture. But what many do not take into consideration is God did not place rules and regulations to make a bunch of rules of what to do or not to do. He did it for the protection of mankind. Without following those rules, there are huge consequences. It completely takes away from what it was meant to be, a union of two souls in a relationship that is completely open and bare before one another. With that kind of close intimacy, to have that with someone and that take that away causes devastation, especially for women. It is not natural to not have an emotional connection with a man through sex. There is always a deep connection, even if someone chooses to try to ignore it. Women who sleep around are very wounded people. We have created a sex crazed culture that has lost sight of what marriage was meant to be, and what God created sex for. Sex joins people. It joins souls. To take that and use it freely has consequences. God is forgiving, when people repent. But countless people have faced horrific consequences for sex before marriage. And that carries into your future, and your children. We are not to live for the moment, but think upon how actions will affect our future, as well as the future of others. If we were not living in such a selfish society, it would not even be a question to consider. But people live for the moment, seeking immediate gratification. The only thing that will truly fill the holes in a person is Jesus Christ, and only within the context of marriage can there be what sex was meant to be - a way to join the heart and souls of two people. To bond people in that way is only tearing out pieces of your heart - even if it is not something people readily see.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 22, 2012 1:53:33 PM PDT
Marriage is a secular, civil institution where religious participation is optional.

There are many different kinds of relationships, many different kinds of marriages, and many different kinds of families. So long as the individuals involved are compassionate, honest, loyal and loving, the individuals will benefit.

Sex can join people..., it can also enhance intimacy, and strengthen emotional bonds.

And, it can also be a lot of fun, and bring a lot of pleasure.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 22, 2012 1:55:14 PM PDT
Ostrova says:
"We need a framework that values families... *all kinds* of families.

We need a framework that values and supports people... *all* people."

EXACTLY.

I was watching a series on PBS in which an English clergyman and an Iroquois woman were talking about their different traditions re. sacred music. The Englishman had been a choirboy for years and the Indian woman records and performs--and they were appreciating what they had in common! WHAT A FREAKIN' CONCEPT, PEOPLE!!! And totally not possible if --as so often happens--the white dude beats the Indian up with the Bible. Hey, WWJD? Probably NOT beat up on the lady. You think? Hey, what do I know, I loved my gay uncle.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 22, 2012 2:09:52 PM PDT
Ostrova says:
"Within the context of marriage, it is a beautiful thing that God created."

Amber, there's nothing magic about marriage. It doesn't make everything suddenly work, just because the piece of paper is all signed and registered. There are lots of terrible and very legal marriages. And there are those who can't get married in most states--I'm thinking of my uncle, who didn't live to see ANY legalized marriages for gays, and he died @ 95. He tried marriage to a woman, as many gay men his age did. With all good intentions. She became an alcoholic.
"But people live for the moment, seeking immediate gratification." That's not necessarily why "people" have sex outside of marriage. Some "people" have complex relationships and actually-<gasp!> even get to know their partners ahead of time! You don't see any subtleties here?

"The only thing that will truly fill the holes in a person is Jesus Christ"
No, Amber, if a person has holes that need to be filled, s/he has probably been SHOT and needs to get to a hospital ASAP.
Seriously, one size does not fit all. It would be very nice if you "Christians" (who claim to be fans of Jesus but you can sure fool me about that) would agree to share the planet with the rest of us.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 22, 2012 2:54:00 PM PDT
Amon says:
Wow this sounds strangely like the ignorance of childhood. That's is the only point in time when I can remember all of that stuff you mentioned, when I was young and ignorant. Is this that "golden age" you were talking about?

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 22, 2012 3:32:33 PM PDT
Ostrova says:
Ostrova says: When exactly was this golden age you speak of? I don't believe it ever existed.

It was on TV in the late 50's, early 60's. Google 'Ozzie and Harriet' ;)
________________________________________________________
Riiiigghhhtt. No problems in that world! Rochester didn't have to ride on the back of the bus, the only single women were cute teenagers or old maids, Jews didn't get turned away (Groucho Marx, Jack Benny, and George Burns all had shows). Of course, Nat "King" Cole lost his own show because sponsors wouldn't touch it! And Pete Seeger couldn't appear on TV because of HUAC. Come to think of it, lots of people couldn't write, direct, or act because of HUAC. But you could drive your kids to suicide and pitch orange juice (Bing Crosby) and sell a bazillion records.

Sorry, Ostrova, I forgot to turn on my sarcasm font.

Posted on Jul 22, 2012 3:38:49 PM PDT
when did christians become such one size fits all lock step conformists?

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 22, 2012 3:53:45 PM PDT
Ostrova says:
"Sorry, Ostrova, I forgot to turn on my sarcasm font."

Moongirl, I was doing what improv people sometimes call "yes-and"-ing, which is agreeing and adding. Do you get "ThisTV"? They show a lot of so-called "classic"TV. Personally, I can't stand all those "perfect" WASPY families, but I love Burns & Allen and Jack Benny!!

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 22, 2012 3:55:20 PM PDT
Ostrova says:
"when did christians become such one size fits all lock step conformists?"

Funny about that. Cause Jesus was kind of a hippie!

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 22, 2012 4:02:51 PM PDT
Barry Soetoro says:
There is nothing magical about honoring marriage vows and setting good examples as role models. There is nothing mystical about being responsible and reaping contentment. There is nothing amazing about investing in your children and bringing forth well-adjusted adults

PJA. In what era and more importantly what dimension did this ever exist?

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 22, 2012 4:14:32 PM PDT
Barry Soetoro says:
Do you think we are in better shape as a society than we were 10 years ago? 20 years ago? 50 years ago? Every era can point to all of the "... yeah, buts".
When divorce was rare and credit was short term and of modest measure, when families ate together and parents knew where their kids were and what they were doing, when kids were more often than not raised by a committed mother and father instead of a distracted mother and a tired grandmother, when you rarely if ever knew of someone that had gone to jail personally, when you heard of a minor accident and your first thought wasn't "there's a big lawsuit", when people watched out for their neighbors... all fantasy witnessed in my lifetime. The family is the building block of societal values. When the family doesn't hold up its end of the bargain, we all reap the rewards.

PJA: Actually society is far better off than it was. Nearly two generations ago, there was a world war. And 20 years before that there was another world war in which millions of people were slaughtered. It hopefully is highly unlikely that there will be another war of that magnitude. Unless of course a leader decides to start one.

Technology has improved out living standards. 50 years ago African Americans were fighting for their civil rights. Due to advances in women's rights women no longer need to stay with a violent husband.Divorce should be as equally acceptable as marriage. If one partner is unhappy should they have to endure a lifetime of misery just because its living up to "family values"?

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 22, 2012 4:25:53 PM PDT
Amber says:
The world has taken what was supposed to be shared between two people, husband and wife, and perverted it in about every way imagineable.

PJA. Oh? Describe what "evil" this world has brought in "every way imaginable"


Within the context of marriage, it is a beautiful thing that God created.

PJA. Again why does this God have to credit for everything? If he did, then he has a lot to answer for



But outside of that, there is no lasting fulfillment. It is wrong, per scripture.

PJA. Ah there you go ,the tawdriness of scripture

But what many do not take into consideration is God did not place rules and regulations to make a bunch of rules of what to do or not to do. He did it for the protection of mankind.

PJA. who protects mankind from "God"?

Without following those rules, there are huge consequences. It completely takes away from what it was meant to be, a union of two souls in a relationship that is completely open and bare before one another. With that kind of close intimacy, to have that with someone and that take that away causes devastation, especially for women. It is not natural to not have an emotional connection with a man through sex.

PJA. What do you think builds the emotion? Denying and putting off the inevitable creates more problems than it ever solves..Never underestimate the power of sexuality....

There is always a deep connection, even if someone chooses to try to ignore it. Women who sleep around are very wounded people. We have created a sex crazed culture that has lost sight of what marriage was meant to be, and what God created sex for.

PJA. So God creates sex for our enjoyment then wants us to feel bad about it? Your God is full of contradictions.

Sex joins people. It joins souls. To take that and use it freely has consequences.

PJA So much for free will

God is forgiving, when people repent. But countless people have faced horrific consequences for sex before marriage.

PJA. Indeed. Some have found happiness even..

And that carries into your future, and your children. We are not to live for the moment, but think upon how actions will affect our future, as well as the future of others. If we were not living in such a selfish society, it would not even be a question to consider. But people live for the moment, seeking immediate gratification.

PJA. Indeed, none more so than religion

The only thing that will truly fill the holes in a person is Jesus Christ, and only within the context of marriage can there be what sex was meant to be

PJA. So Jesus wants to watch does he? Hmmm, so he is a little perverted?

- a way to join the heart and souls of two people. To bond people in that way is only tearing out pieces of your heart - even if it is not something people readily see.

PJA. Sex is a physical act. It can take on many forms. Some people just want sex without the complications. Some want rough, some want multiple partners. What the religious idea of sex does is create so so many problems. Instead of being able to enjoy it, it gives a guilt trip and emotionally and mentally scars them for life....

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 22, 2012 4:37:22 PM PDT
I hoped you had realized what I meant, thanks for clarifying. Great job with the 'yes-and'-ing, btw.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 22, 2012 8:09:03 PM PDT
Ostrova says:
"Great job with the 'yes-and'-ing, btw."

Thanks, moongirl! Would you believe, I do it without Jesus Christ in my life?

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 22, 2012 8:21:56 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 22, 2012 8:22:47 PM PDT
Banner says:
Do you think a girls virginity is special? Does it matter who she gives it to?

Man I should probably read more of the thread before commenting.

Posted on Jul 22, 2012 8:23:57 PM PDT
The virginity thing does seem strange to me as a non-believer. In fact, Western religion's obsession with sex in general seems strange. It sometimes seems like religious people expend an awful lot of energy condemning the sexual practices of the rest of the world. I don't understand why sex is such an important subject to them or why sexual taboos are so fearful.

Of course, if someone decides to remain a virgin until marriage because of their religious beliefs or for any other reason, that's a perfectly reasonable choice. But, honestly, it seems like a very strange choice to me. Personally, I'm very glad that I had varied sexual experiences before I got married. It makes it easier for me to remain in a monogamous relationship without feeling that I've missed something.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 22, 2012 8:27:14 PM PDT
Marcos says:
Barry,

You are correct. To lie about the past has always benefited certain groups and individuals in society. In some ocassions it may have benefited the whole of society, but to advocate it as the rule is deplorable.

As has been shown with sex education, the catholic church priest abuses, Jerry Sandusky in Penn State, telling the whole truth is often the better choice.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 22, 2012 8:30:43 PM PDT
Marcos says:
Barry,

Nobody disagrees that you are trying to promote good values. But nobody here agrees that such values were ever the norm.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 22, 2012 8:59:33 PM PDT
Ostrova says:
"Do you think a girls virginity is special? Does it matter who she gives it to?"
Banner, do you think a boy's virginity is equally special? Cause you didn't mention it.
I don't get this whole virginity fetish, unless you come right out and say, "OK, it's about women as property and making sure her husband knows the kids are really his." Love? Trust? Not in that equation.
This stuff about "a present you can give only once" bodes very poorly for a relationship beyond The First Time, doesn't it? Besides, I bet a lot of people would tell you, that first time isn't necessarily all that great. Even if you're in love, even if it's absolutely not a one-night stand,hell, for all I know, even if you're married!--I bet nerves and inexperience rule for most.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 22, 2012 9:01:46 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 22, 2012 9:03:22 PM PDT
Banner says:
No I didn't mention it because I don't think women care that much about a mans virginity. Men seem to prize this more than women so I thought I'd ask the man if he's ever cared about a girls virginity.

Just posing questions that help us examine why we feel certain things. Conditioning I suppose. Even now, I often wonder what to do with the emotional ties I have to the sex act.
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Initial post:  Jul 8, 2012
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