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Customer Discussions > Christianity forum

If you believe Jesus is a historical person, why do you think he was deified.


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Showing 1-25 of 77 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Jun 10, 2012 5:29:11 PM PDT
Richard says:
Some say that Jesus really existed, but legends began to surround him as time went on. What did Jesus do to get deified? Are the teachings of the Q document so great that miracles became attached to the teachings? If all Jesus did was manage to get himself executed, then why was he made God later on? What are your thoughts on the subject?

Clayton
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In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012 5:41:17 PM PDT
mrs exp says:
Clayton,
Jesus didn't do anything to get deified. He was God the Son from eternity. He emptied himself of his godly powers and came to earth as a God/man to show us about God, how we should live, and to die for our sins. He will return to judge the living and the dead and establish his Kingdom of God on earth.
exp

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012 5:43:37 PM PDT
Richard says:
mrs exp,

Thank you for you comment.

Clayton

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012 5:45:10 PM PDT
mrs exp says:
Clayton,
You're welcome. I can never pass up an opportunity to put my 2 cents worth in.
exp

Posted on Jun 10, 2012 5:57:12 PM PDT
By mistake.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012 8:46:46 PM PDT
Jesus was the Son of God and equal in power to God
in the sense that infinity can be half as big as 2x infinity and yet be equal

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012 9:08:48 PM PDT
Serene Night says:
I do think Jesus was a historical person, and have seen no evidence that he was anything more than a common man, which I am personally ok with, although I know many Christians will disagree.

I believe writers and believers at the time or time period following his death hyped up his life to make him appear larger than life, because they wanted to believe it, or possibly for other reasons, including the fact they wanted to start a ministry following his teachings, or they benefited in some way by promoting this myth, or they heard it from somone and simply believed it was so.

Ancestor worship is fairly common and mythic births for esteemed ancestors was common, and people still worshiped humans as gods including emperors of Rome, so the idea that a man could be a diety or a child of a diety is not really outside of the public thought. It is clear Jesus made an impact on people, had some good ideas, and had plenty of followers so like most legends a mystique grew.

Why was he made a god later on, after being executed? My feeling, is that people wanted to worship him, and the idea that he was simply a rebellious philosopher executed by the romans, was not godly, so they made stuff up to make his death seem more meaningful or embroidered it a little. I think the idea of a god dying and rising from the dead is a not uncommon myth, and would probably be accepted by those believers who had converted from other pagan religions and would be somewhat par for the course.

That's my thoughts.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012 9:13:57 PM PDT
[Deleted by Amazon on Jul 15, 2016 2:51:25 PM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012 9:15:47 PM PDT
the resurrection should prove he was not an ordinary man

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012 9:17:15 PM PDT
Serene Night says:
I personally do not believe he was resurrected or born of a virgin either.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012 9:19:36 PM PDT
[Deleted by Amazon on Jul 15, 2016 2:51:25 PM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012 9:20:32 PM PDT
Serene Night says:
Neither do I.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012 9:20:42 PM PDT
that is your choice

have you looked at the evidence at all ?

http://www.resurrectionism.com/pdfs/Resurrection.pdf

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012 9:24:01 PM PDT
[Deleted by Amazon on Jul 15, 2016 2:51:25 PM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012 9:28:51 PM PDT
Serene Night says:
Very interesting Here for the music, I like that interpretation.

Posted on Jun 10, 2012 9:29:13 PM PDT
[Deleted by Amazon on Jul 15, 2016 2:51:25 PM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 3:25:38 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 11, 2012 3:44:47 AM PDT
James Joyce says:
That's a very good question.

Every person who believes that 'Jesus' existed seems to have a different 'Jesus' in mind. The most basic one, which is identified with the Jesus of the canonical gospels and epistles, is simply a man called Yeshua who was executed by the Romans. It is not obvious that such a person would be unique and so certainly identifiable with 'Jesus', but the crucial assumption (which distinguishes its proponents as 'historicists', as 'mythicists' would surely agree that at least one man fitting that description is very likely to have existed) is that all the myth and theology subsequently attached to this particular bare-bones Jesus person: the line of development proceeded from him. This mythicising of a historical character is seen as a more 'parsimonious' explanation of early Christianity than the reverse process of historicising a mythological/mystical character - but I have yet to see a convincing explanation that it is.

In many ways the divine and resurrected Jesus of the religious seems more self-consistent than the historical Jesus of the secular historicists. If you are a proponent of the former, I think it is a good question to ask of the latter.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 4:39:29 AM PDT
Celsus says:
Clayton

>>What did Jesus do to get deified?<<

He got crucified. This would have come as a great blow to his followers, who had hoped Jesus was the messiah. However, by deifying Jesus through making it appear he rose from the dead his followers accomplished a number of things. They promoted themselves from followers of a failed messiah to disciples of the Son of God; they could view themselves as special and superior to everyone else due to their 'saved' status; they achieved positions of power and authority in their new cult; they justified the sacrifices they made to follow Jesus; they were able to attract followers from among the pagans, for whom dying and rising god/men were a common religious theme; they forged for themselves a vocation and livelihood. So deifying Jesus was the only practical way forward for the early disciples. The alternative was to admit they had abandoned their families to follow a false prophet - a far less palatable option.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 4:41:07 AM PDT
Celsus says:
andthe

>>the resurrection should prove he was not an ordinary man<<

Sure, if you can prove the resurrection occurred. Be my guest.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 6:09:38 AM PDT
Jesus' total deification took place in steps, beginning with Paul, then became mature with the author of the Gospel of John some 60 years following Jesus' crucifixion. It then took a couple hundred more years to become official church dogma in accord with the Trinity.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 8:00:57 AM PDT
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In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 11:53:03 AM PDT
Celsus says:
James

Very true. But I think the crux of the matter, the catalyst, was Jesus' ignominious death. This had to be explained in a way that would allow the cult to continue, so they settled on the popular pagan idea of the rising god/man.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 1:17:07 PM PDT
James Joyce says:
Celsus: He got crucified. This would have come as a great blow to his followers, who had hoped Jesus was the messiah. However, by deifying Jesus through making it appear he rose from the dead his followers accomplished a number of things.

JJ: This is possible. Though it seems likely that other apocalyptic preachers met similar fates, but did not have a similar trajectory? And tales of his deeds prior to his execution do not seem to have been in circulation early, and did not emerge until some time after the Son of God preaching, which dwelt in great detail on the LXX, heaven, and visionary/mystical experience inspired by scripture. The opposite line of development - from a mystical oracle drawn out of the Greek bible, via a failed parousia, to a fleshed-out animation of a first coming - seems to be equally possible. Such fleshings-out are probably as common as euhemerism, they build an illustrative tale around a deeper mystical/mythical trope - Noah and the flood comes to mind.

Posted on Jun 11, 2012 9:09:01 PM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Jun 12, 2012 9:23:49 PM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 9:18:43 PM PDT
Sam D says:
Serene,

Perhaps when He returns He will "de-confuse" your mind. He'll explain everything. Just be ready for that event.

Big Sam
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Discussion in:  Christianity forum
Participants:  21
Total posts:  77
Initial post:  Jun 10, 2012
Latest post:  Jun 23, 2012

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