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who is jesus father??? god or joseph


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In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 12:27:42 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 14, 2012 12:29:08 PM PDT
Actually, it is the Word of God, since he gave his instructions to the authors of the books. We do agree in that versions such as the KJV was scribed by humans with human frailties. However, it is with faith that we can listen to God and he will lead us in the right direction and will give us a true understanding of the Word.
Human beings guided by the hand of God are the original authors and yes the word of God is divine to those of us who believe.
I take no umbrage with you if that is not your belief, just as I would assume you would not disparage my faith and beliefs.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 12:34:45 PM PDT
BIG SHMOOZ

See this is exactly what I mean christians seem to think that they know more about Judaism then the jewish people who wrote there own books and have followed there faith for centuries LONG before christianity came along this is just plain ridiculous,insulting,disrespectful and ludicrous christians can interpret jewish text better than the jewish people??? Are you freaking kidding me?? and when a jewish person shows them how wrong they are they just say that the jewish person is not interpreting his own text properly if this is not a sign of religous cult activity I don't know what is.Of all the religions on earth Judaism is the most logical atleast they respect the beliefs of others and don't go around manipulating,coersing,persuading,tricking,converting people like christians do

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 12:43:15 PM PDT
DOOBIE

Different translations where things are changed is a different version and your god is not showing you the right way which is why the protestants and catholics have 2 DIFFERENT books

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 12:46:13 PM PDT
Astrocat says:
Doobie, you may think "he" gave "his" instructions, but you really have no way of knowing that for sure. Now I am drawn to the Bhagavad Gita, but I would never say that the writers were given instructions by Brahma. That would just be silly, and completely unverifiable.

I'm not disparaging your beliefs, I'm questioning their validity.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 12:51:51 PM PDT
Big Shmooz says:
Doobie says: Some of the meaning would be lost, but the main intent would be the same.

Me: What is the main intent? jesus is surely not it. Yet Christians for the most part will claim it is. So how can you say the main intent would be the same?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 12:56:47 PM PDT
Big Shmooz says:
Nancy Davison says: Moreover, "God" did not write any of the Bible

Me: Genesis through Deut. was written by God.

Nancy Davison says: nor is it the "word of God" in any sense.

Me: How else is one supposed to define the term spoken by verified Prophets saying "& God said X"? If a Prophet spoke one word of his own saying "God said it", he was liable to the death penalty.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 12:58:31 PM PDT
NANCY

Moreover, "God" did not write any of the Bible, nor is it the "word of God" in any sense. The materials brought together and known today as the Bible were all written by very human beings, with very human agendas and points of view. Nothing divine about it

( I totally agree with you there )

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 12:58:58 PM PDT
Big Shmooz says:
Clarence H. Richmond says: BIG SHMOOZ This is where I agree... ...on the problems with Christianity and there KJV even though I reject all bible based beliefs in a religious context the christian text is so incorrect it's not even funny and they insult the jewish faith by claiming they missed the signs of the messiah or that there own God blinded them from the truth.Christians actually beleive this nonsense?? What about the fact that the God of Isreal chose the jews as his people and had them write his word and carry out his will??No christian has been able to show me where it says that he changed his mind and decided to go with christians to carry out his will and write ANOTHER word called the New Testament they would always say that this new covenant nonsense is the proof but where does it say he wanted a new covenant under christianity??? Just because that's how you interpret it doesn't make it true don't insult my intelligence show me some valid proof!!!

Me: On this we agree.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 1:01:28 PM PDT
Astrocat says:
Well, "big", one could simply say, "This prophet wrote this and that prophet wrote that." Why would anyone have to claim that some god wrote it? That's so patently ridiculous that it's obvious why so many of us have completely rejected any such claims.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 1:03:10 PM PDT
DOOBIE

Which book is the word of your God? The Jewish bible (TENAKH) or the Christian bible (NEW TESTAMENT) Can you honestly answer this question???

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 1:04:07 PM PDT
DOOBIE

I would assume you would not disparage my faith and beliefs.

(Christians are always disparaging non-christian beliefs)

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 1:06:33 PM PDT
Big Shmooz says:
Doobie says: However, it is with faith that we can listen to God and he will lead us in the right direction and will give us a true understanding of the Word.

Me: Then you are forced to say that no Christian has faith to listen to God since if they did they would not be Christian. They would be Noachides. (followers of the 7 Noachide laws given by God to mankind)

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 1:13:31 PM PDT
Big Shmooz says:
Nancy Davison says: Well, "big", one could simply say, "This prophet wrote this and that prophet wrote that."

Me: Judaism says exactly that on the Hebrew Scriptures except for Genesis through Deut. as I explained above.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 1:27:33 PM PDT
Astrocat says:
If "God" wrote Genesis, "he" was painting with very broad strokes, since "he" included two entirely different creation mythologies.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 4:13:18 PM PDT
Big Shmooz says:
Nancy Davison says: If "God" wrote Genesis, "he" was painting with very broad strokes, since "he" included two entirely different creation mythologies.

Me: That is incorrect. You are welcome though to show me why you think as you do & I will show you in response where your mistakes are.

P.S. none of it is mythology.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 4:25:51 PM PDT
Astrocat says:
First Account (Genesis 1:1-2:3)

Second Account (Genesis 2:4-25)

And of course it's mythology. It's certainly not fact.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 5:33:16 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 14, 2012 5:33:51 PM PDT
Big Shmooz says:
Nancy Davison says: First Account (Genesis 1:1-2:3) Second Account (Genesis 2:4-25)

Me: That doesn't even make sense. Where is there two accounts? For instance you mention the second account to be from chapter 2 verses 4 till 25. How is the detail of describing the garden & the rivers a second account? Be specific.

If I tell you I built a house & then I tell you that there is a living room and a bedroom with a door on the right hand side & a pool in the backyard, would you define that as two accounts of the house or would you rather define the second statement as a detailed explanation of the first statement?

This is why I am asking you to be specific.

Nancy Davison says: And of course it's mythology. It's certainly not fact.

Me: Just because you say so doesn't make it a fact. Did God tell you or were you there? So there is no way for you to know. I say you're wrong. & that is just as much (actually more) a fact as "your fact".

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 5:41:37 PM PDT
Because I have faith in God to show me the answers and he has not failed me yet. I have a blessed life and I know that in any times of trouble, I can turn to God for the support and answers that I need to get through. That is what faith is all about.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 5:45:21 PM PDT
I don't disparage anyone's beliefs. I have my faith and believe in God the Father who sent his son to save me from my sins. I was washed by the blood that was shed on the cross. What you believe and what your relationship is with God is yours and it is not for me to judge. That is way above my pay grade.

If you are wrong, that will be because of your decision. If I am wrong, it will be because of my decisions and faith. Either way, you live like you want and believe or not believe.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 5:46:54 PM PDT
That is according to the Talmud's interpretation.

Posted on Jun 14, 2012 5:49:22 PM PDT
Bottom line is this...I am probably not going to convince or convert anyone to have faith in God. You are most certainly not going to convince me not to believe and have faith in God. I offer my opinion and the testimony of how my faith guides my life. You get to choose how you want to live yours.
I don't argue about religion or my faith, I just answer how I feel.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 6:40:13 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 14, 2012 6:55:29 PM PDT
Astrocat says:
Big, if you can't tell the difference then nothing I say will further the discussion. However, I did find another way of expressing it:

The First Account
There are two versions in the Bible on how Adam and Eve were created, and they are very different.

In Genesis 1:26-27 we have the first story:
God [elohim] created man in the image of himself
in the image of God [elohim] he created him,
male and female he created them

What we read here, is not what most of us have been taught. God [elohim] continues in the line of the whole creation, and now creates man. The Hebrew word "adam" literally means man as in mankind, humanity, and not an individual being. In fact the names, Adam and Eve, are not used here. Mankind is created male and female. The word "adam" is derived from another Hebrew word "adama" which means earth.

It continues to explain that "adam" (mankind) is created in his image. There are several words for god in Hebrew, all translated as god in all other languages. The word used in Genesis is Elohim, a plural version of the singular word for a god, El.

So when "adam", mankind, is created in the image of god, we must ask what this image is. It is plural and therefore male and female. But the image is also more than that.

What separates man from beasts is his ability to create. It's not communication, nor emotion, nor intellect, but his ability to create. That is the one thing that sets man apart from beasts.

The word create is only used twice in this first creation story. In Gen. 1:1 when god creates heaven and earth, and in Gen.1:26, when mankind is created.

By Susan Valadon

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2012 9:20:28 PM PDT
;-)

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 15, 2012 3:22:35 AM PDT
Theo says:
Clar- God might metanoieo/repent/change his mind if the Jews reject the promised Messiah...& they did!
There was a time when God wanted to destroy the Jewish people and start all over with Moses. M. begged him not to.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 15, 2012 4:18:09 AM PDT
Nova137 says:
Humans have beliefs. God has some, too. One of them is "humans". Joseph would be like Jesus' adopted father. God is the Father of all. Your Mother is matter. A cosmic marriage, if you will.
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This discussion

Discussion in:  Christianity forum
Participants:  40
Total posts:  270
Initial post:  Jun 3, 2012
Latest post:  Jul 2, 2012

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