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Customer Discussions > Christianity forum

what is with this "godhead" concept ?


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Showing 251-275 of 328 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on May 5, 2012 12:01:17 AM PDT
Clayton

I think you are much clearer than the Nicene Creed. Where were you when the bishops needed you?

In reply to an earlier post on May 5, 2012 11:39:43 AM PDT
DTS says:
Michael,

I hope you are okay and doing well despite the issues you are having with utilities. I've always enjoyed engaging with you and arguing with you.

In reply to an earlier post on May 5, 2012 12:58:11 PM PDT
reply to Clayton A. Miller's post:

there is one God

Jesus is not God is not Jesus
they are separate and distinct entities

this one in 3 or 3 in 1 makes no sense

There are 3 entities in the Godsquad.
God is the head guy. Jesus is nr 2.
Jesus obeys God. Jesus does not know what God knows per the bible.
You cant make them the same and get anyone to believe it's true.

In reply to an earlier post on May 5, 2012 11:22:16 PM PDT
WD said: "I have read your comment and have also read Nash's discussion of theotes and theiotes. Some claim theotes is "divine" and "theiotes" is "divine quality". I think this argument may not be settled."

I've not heard this, but the word, 'divine' is an adjective, isn't it? It is a description of a quality. I guess it boils down to divine quality or divine attributes - in other words, it's the difference between divine nature and divine personality.

I tend to think that theiotes - derived from theion, is related to the God's attribute of power, as displayed, for example, in the destructive force of brimstone, which, in Greek, is theion. Bible translations favor the use of the word,'divinity' at Romans 1:20, where theiotes is used, while 'deity' is preferred at Col 2:9

Nash concluded that the two words were used pretty much interchangably and saw no significant distinction between them in actual usage.

But what we don't see is any usage where either word refers to a god-being comprised of multiple persons into a single entity. This a popular perception today, but it is not supported by any usage in ancient documents. It's mostly an invented definition

In reply to an earlier post on May 5, 2012 11:33:01 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 5, 2012 11:35:04 PM PDT
DTS -
Thank you.

Yeah, I bought a 23 year-old manufactured home that was abused and neglected, and I'm renovating it to make it habitable. It was rather dreadful. It's now sitting on 2 1/2 acres with a wonderful view of our 12, 633 ft tall mountain, and I haven't gotten the utilities hooked up yet, focusing first on the interior living areas. I'm doing everything out of pocket, and, the pockets have been pretty empty lately. It will all be worth it when it's done - and very inexpensive to live in.

Unfortunately, I've not had much opportunity to argue with anyone since December. I hope to get back to it soon.

Thanks.

In reply to an earlier post on May 5, 2012 11:40:40 PM PDT
Nice! Arizona is beautiful around those parts.

In reply to an earlier post on May 7, 2012 4:34:28 PM PDT
Harold Swanson,

You have a problem with the Christian concept of a Divine Trinity who are one in essence, nature, and being.
Well, so do I. However, i see the problem not of being an acceptance of a single god or multiple gods, but
of how the One God is revealed to mankind.

Since the 4th Century, the Godhead has been defined as "One God expressed to Mankind as Three Persons".
But this is not necessarily a good definition of the Godhead, for a simple reason: This Tripartite God contains
an extraneous element: The Human Being, Jesus of Nazareth. Additionally, the ENTIRE Godhead supposedly dwells
within the physical body of Jesus of Nazareth.

Logically, my last sentence is a circular argument.

IF Jesus of Nazareth is a member of the Godhead, and is the Human Being in whom the ENTIRE Godhead dwells, from
Eternity, then Jesus of Nazareth dwells in himself as himself, thus being not only Human, but also Spirit, and is himself his own
source. As far as I know, there is only ONE Source, the Father [the Godhead in His entirety].

But WHAT is "spirit"? How do we define it?
Some define "spirit" as "a shapeless form" [I know that makes no sense to you, since it makes no sense to me, either.]
The two words are contradictory, and such a statement has no basis in Logic, since something which is shapeless has no form,
and no form is shapeless. Therefore, such a definition is empty of content, and means nothing.
Some define "spirit" as a "Personal Being" without a body, who can appear in a body. This statement is at least logically
consistent. But is it true? Do such "spirits" exist? The first word off the top of my head to describe such a spiritual being would
be "Angel". Angels have almost ALWAYS been described as having human features [i.e., "bodies"] which are visible to those who
perceived them. So "Angel" is a prime candidate for being "Personal Spirit".

A "human spirit" would never occur to me, since ALL human beings have a form -- our bodies, which we receive over a course of
nine months, and which we lose when we die and begin turning into dust. This form contains all which make up a human being.
It contains a Brain, which is the seat of our intelligence, and the center of our Being.
It contains Eyes, which are the organs enabling us to receive the reflections of Light from other forms in the Universe around us
It contains Ears, which are the organs with which we receive the sounds of the Universe around us.
It contains Skin, which is the organ of touch-perceptions, which is able to receive touch perception of other
forms around us.
It contains a Tongue, which is the organ of taste and speech.
And finally, it contains a Nose, which is the organ of smell-perceptions.

Without these physical organs, we are nothing more than meat on a plate.

But we do have a "spirit". This "spirit" is our ability to think, will, communicate, understand, and act. In other words,
our Conscious Intelligence. This "spirit" is not ourselves. It is found in our brains. When the brain dies, there is no more
conscious intelligence.

We, ourselves, are the combination of the Mind and Body. Without the body, we have no mind. And without our mind, our
body has no ability to interact with other beings, including ourselves. We need both to properly be called a "Person". "We" are
not "our minds", and "We" are not our "bodies". "We" are "our minds and bodies together".

To me, the BEST definition of a"spirit" is "conscious awareness". Nothing more, and nothing less. Since we cannot "see" this,
a ""spirit" is altogether invisible. However, we CAN "Understand" it. In this way only did Jesus mean that "God is Spirit". The ONLY
way a man of flesh and blood can "see" God is through the "eyes of his understanding". The "Father" is the only "form" which describes
"God" Himself. God is His own form. No more gods exist in His form. And His "form" is eternal, and never had
a beginning, and will never have an end. ALL other "forms" derive their being from the "forms" which have always existed in the mind
of the Father. One of these "Forms" is Mankind. Specifically, ONE "Man", who is the blueprint from which all other human beings were
formed. The original form of Man is now known to us as "Jesus of Nazareth". But He was originally a "form" in the mind of the Father,
not a human being who can be touched or seen, until God Himself "realized" this form in the Original human beings, Adam and Eve, In
this way, Jesus is First, as the form from which all other human beings derive their own form.

Only in this way can we say that Jesus of Nazareth has eternally existed, as the Original Form from which all other forms were generated.
Because the original form existed in the mind of God from eternity, can we say that this form is God Himself? I do not believe this is
possible, logically. If something is not logically possible, it has no existence in reality. It is just an "impossible concept".

The form of man was a "form in God" -- a thought, a specific thought, in the Mind of God. But was this thought the ONLY thought God had?
It is obviously not so, since we see many other "forms" around us. You know, like cats, chickens, dogs, food on the table, elements. None of
these have our form, and since all which exists came forth from the Mind of God, He MUST have other forms within Himself. Humanity was
ONE of the myriad of other forms in God's Eternal Mind. I believe there are other forms which we have not yet seen, but which we will one day
see. The only forms we know of are the forms which we can see. And we have seen very few, having lived on this small planet all our days.
How do we know there are no other forms on other planets, around other stars? We don't.

Now, we are told by Paul that Jesus is the "express image" of the Father. Does this mean that He IS the Father? No. It ONLY means that He
is the "express IMAGE" of the Father. So is God actually a HUGE human being? Does this Eternal, Infinite Being look like Jesus, only impossibly
large? That is foolishness. If God IS Infinite, then He can have no "form", since "form" implies boundaries. If God is Infinite [which has no boundaries],
then God has no form. He is His own "form".

And does Jesus look like the Father? How could He "look" like the Father, since the Father is boundless, and has no skin forming His boundaries, being
Infinite? Is Jesus just a "scaled-down" version of the Infinite and Eternal Father? That is a possibility, but is it true? Is it even possible to scale down
"Infinity". Infinity is an indivisible amount. If an indivisible amount cannot be further divided ["scaled down"], it can only be what it is -- Infinity.
If it is not possible to scale down Infinity, then in no way could Jesus be God, scaled down. So we conclude that Jesus is NOT "God, scaled down"

Now, a smaller amount can be scaled up, by ADDING to the amount. So, Is God a scaled-up version of Jesus? If God is already fully and completely
Infinite, how could He be scaled up any further? You cannot add to Infinity, neither can you divide infinity.

We MUST conclude two things:
1) God is not Jesus
2) Jesus is not God

Which only leaves one concept: Humanity does NOT, as a general rule, understand the Words of Jesus. No matter WHO they are or were, since almost
NO Bible-believer refuses to call Jesus "God" in one way or another. Whether one calls Him "a God", or just "God".
As Jesus puts it, Only the Father knows the Son, and only the Son knows the Father, and those he chooses to reveal Him to.

Instead, they make the Eternal Creator out to be a MAN, and "changed the image of the Father into the image of a man...and served and worshiped the
Creation rather than the Creator."

ALL professing Christians who worship Jesus as God are IDOLATERS [and I mean EVERYONE who worships Jesus as God in ANY WAY]
From Catholics to LDS. ALL have changed the image of the Invisible God into one of His creations.

a sinner,

Donald Lee McDaniel

In reply to an earlier post on May 7, 2012 4:52:45 PM PDT
reply to Donald L. Mcdaniel's post:

the bible clearly shows that Jesus is not God is not Jesus
and that they are two separate and distinct entities

In reply to an earlier post on May 16, 2012 10:56:50 PM PDT
Donald:

I appreciate the attitude of your post. It's nice to have a civil discussion without the practice of name calling. Sorry about taking so long in getting back to you. Let me address a couple of your points just to get things rolling.

You said: "Now, we are told by Paul that Jesus is the "express image" of the Father. Does this mean that He IS the Father? No. It ONLY means that He is the "express IMAGE" of the Father. So is God actually a HUGE human being? Does this Eternal, Infinite Being look like Jesus, only impossibly large? That is foolishness. If God IS Infinite, then He can have no "form", since "form" implies boundaries. If God is Infinite [which has no boundaries], then God has no form. He is His own "form". End Quote

I agree that Jesus Christ is in the express image of the Father, and that He is not the Father. I believe that the Father and Jesus Christ are two separate beings. Jesus Christ is Heavenly Father's Only Begotten Son, and again is in the express image of the Father.

We look like Jesus, Adam, and Seth and they look like God the Father.

26 ¶And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Genesis 1: 26-27).

1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
3 ¶And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth: (Genesis 5: 1-3)

I do not understand why you asked the question: "So is God actually a HUGE human being? Does this Eternal, Infinite Being look like Jesus, only impossibly large?" End Quote. It seems that you are setting up a "straw man". Why would God the Father be a huge human being?

You then reasoned: "If God IS Infinite, then He can have no "form", since "form" implies boundaries. If God is Infinite [which has no boundaries], then God has no form. He is His own "form". End Quote

Your logic here is questionable in my opinion because you misunderstand the use of the word "infinite". It does not refer to the size of God's body, but the eternalness of God. The physical resurrected Jesus Christ is infinite and will live forever. He is, however, the size of a man. He said to John:

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. (Rev. 1: 17-18).

Jesus Christ has a physical resurrected body of flesh and bones in heaven today. He is in the express image of the Father. He will never die a second physical death.

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. (Romans 6: 9-10)

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. (Matt. 27: 52-53).

To call Christ or any other persons who were physically resurrected from the grave after Christ "Human" would not be a proper description of their new physical resurrected bodies.

Paul said this about the resurrection:

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (1 Cor. 15:20-23).

A physically resurrected body is no longer corruptible and mortal, but is immortal and incorruptible. It is not flesh and blood, for there is no blood, but it is flesh and bones like Jesus had when He appeared to the apostles and many others (see Luke 24: 36-39).

A physical resurrected body is sometimes called a spiritual body. This does not mean that it is a "spirit body" without flesh and bones, but the word "spiritual" in this case means more along the lines that a physical resurrect body is above the world, above corruption.

A physical resurrected body is not a spirit, but it is spirit body within a physical body of flesh and bones.

The Book of Mormon put it this way:

40 And he shall come into the world to redeem his people; and he shall take upon him the transgressions of those who believe on his name; and these are they that shall have eternal life, and salvation cometh to none else.
41 Therefore the wicked remain as though there had been no redemption made, except it be the loosing of the bands of death; for behold, the day cometh that all shall rise from the dead and stand before God, and be judged according to their works.
42 Now, there is a death which is called a temporal death; and the death of Christ shall loose the bands of this temporal death, that all shall be raised from this temporal death.
43 The spirit and the body shall be reunited again in its perfect form; both limb and joint shall be restored to its proper frame, even as we now are at this time; and we shall be brought to stand before God, knowing even as we know now, and have a bright recollection of all our guilt.
44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.
45 Now, behold, I have spoken unto you concerning the death of the mortal body, and also concerning the resurrection of the mortal body. I say unto you that this mortal body is raised to an immortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, that they can die no more; their spirits uniting with their bodies, never to be divided; thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal, that they can no more see corruption. (Alma 11: 40-45).

The physical resurrected body of the infiniteJesus Christ does not limit Him in any way. Indeed, His physical resurrected body has propelled Him to greatness and gaining "all power" in heaven and in earth. His physical resurrected body is the reason He was able to conquer death.

16 ¶Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 ¶Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (Matt: 28: 16-19).

You also said: "ALL professing Christians who worship Jesus as God are IDOLATERS [and I mean EVERYONE who worships Jesus as God in ANY WAY]
From Catholics to LDS. ALL have changed the image of the Invisible God into one of His creations." End Quote

From the above scripture we see that the apostles themselves worship the Resurrected Jesus Christ: "And when they saw him, they worshipped him". I do not think that they were idolaters.

So, we have some disagreement here, but that's okay we can still discuss our points.

Harold

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 26, 2012 11:56:34 AM PDT
3D says:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Word is Christ.

God plans; the Son accomplishes all that the Father has planned, and the Spirit applies all that the Son has accomplished.

Be renewed in the spirit of your mind.
Be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

If you say that God is "1", I might say that God is "3". If you say that He is "3", I might say that He is "1". Why do you argue about the great mysteries in your natural mind? Where is the "mind of Christ"?

Jesus said: "Do you not know that I am in the Father; the Father is in me, and I am in you"?

All the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily in Christ. All that the Father has is in the Son. All the Son has is imparted to us thru the Spirit in our spirit.

All the reasonings and arguments put forth are but shadows of the truth. Only Christ is the Life and the Reality. Only with the wisdom and knowledge of God (not about God) can we know the things of God. The mind of man can understand the things of man. But as far as the heavens are above the earth so are the thoughts of God. Who can know the things of God except God. If God, in Christ, as the Spirit lives in you, then and only then, is the Truth and the Reality living in you.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 26, 2012 4:11:46 PM PDT
3d,

But, don't you realize that human beings, using their "natural minds", decided that Jesus is the Second Person in the Trinity [and even that there
is even a Trinity]

Human beings use their own God-given abilities to reason to interpret the Holy Scriptures, always have, and always will.
To deny your own ability to reason is to deny the God Who gives us this reason.

If Jesus is in the Father, and we are in him, does this make us Jesus also? Absolutely not! That is the type of "reasoning"
you are using. It is really not "reason" at all. It is "anti-reason".

You deny others the ability to use their reason to attempt to understand and know God, yet don't deny yourself this.
NO WHERE in Holy Scripture is the nature and substance of God called "a mystery". It is only a "mystery" to you be-
cause you refuse to use your reason. Not to me and many, many others.

A servant of Christ Jesus,

Donald Lee McDaniel

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 27, 2012 9:38:23 PM PDT
At this point (261 posts) of the discussion.

Have you received an answer to your question below?

"Does anyone have a SIMPLE, CLEAR, SHORT, LOGICAL, explanation for how you handle the distinctions , if any, or the identify , if that is true, of the Father=God, Son=Christ, and the Holy Spirit, whatever that last thing really is".

That meets your above requirements and details the reality you are asking for?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 28, 2012 10:42:21 AM PDT
nobody can make any sense out of it because it is logically total nonsense to squish the three separate entities into one and the same entity

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 28, 2012 12:38:23 PM PDT
3D says:
Daniel...You say human beings use their natural minds to 'decide' and you also say that human beings use their own God-given abilities to reason for the purpose of interpretation. I agree.

You also say that to deny one's own ability to reason is to deny the God Who gives reason. I don't deny that we have the ability to reason. You ask the question "If Jesus is in the Father, and we are in Him, does this make us Jesus also?" I say this: we can never be Christ in the Godhead. But we are being transformed and conformed to His image day by day; growing in both His life and nature. We have "put off the old man and put on the new". As children of the living God we are new creatures in Christ.

In the New Testament the word 'mystery' is used 27 times. However, it is not used in the sense or way of meaning that we normally think of it. Where the word mystery is used it does not mean or refer to something that we cannot understand; but, rather to something once hidden-now revealed. That is the intention of my use of the word. I apologize to you for not making my meaning more clear.

As to your claim that I deny others, how could this possibly be so? Can I deny you anything? But, if we seek to know God by our reason then we will not be successful. It is the Spirit that gives life; it is the Spirit that gives us the wisdom and knowledge of God - not our minds. Else, why would our Lord command us to "deny yourselves"; and again, as the Word of the Lord was given us thru Paul: "I must decrease that He may increase"? Or this from our Lord: "if anyone would follow me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily". Because of this it must be painfully aware to all of us that anything that comes from our old man is but wood, grass, and stubble. I am not anti-reason but I choose to wait upon the Lord to reveal to me His own wisdom and understanding concerning the Word and to provide me with the utterance to speak forth life. In other words, it is not 'my' reasoning, but rather His reasoning mingled with mine. My prayer is that His thoughts become my thoughts, His understanding becomes my understanding, that I may advance in Him daily from glory to glory (one level of His expression to another level). Daniel, though the last paragraph of my message is paraphrased, it is scriptural. It seems that you may have missed the 'thrust' of the message which is the last sentence. It is true. I am not capable of denying you or anyone else your willingness and abiliity to use your God-given abilities, including the ability to reason. Nevertheless, it is not our mind or our emotion or our will that is imparted by us into Christ! No! It is Christ Himself being imparted into our whole being: spirit, mind, emotion, will. In other words let us pray that we may reach the place wherein Paul spoke the words: "it is not I who live, but Christ who lives in me". May the Lord Jesus Christ be with you daily.

In Him.

Posted on Jun 28, 2012 1:58:21 PM PDT
3d,

I hate to disagree, but I do NOT believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the Eternal, Immortal, and Infinite 2nd Person of the Trinity.
I'm also not so sure that there is a "Trinity", as in reference to the "Nicene" Creed of Protestants.

Additionally, Paul did not teach "He must increase, and I must decrease". This was John Baptizer, and he was speaking in reference
to Christ's position as Messiah, and his position as the forerunner of Messiah, not is reference to his ability to reason.

We can't even be Christ in ANY way, much less in the G-dhead, especially since he is not part of the G-dhead, there being no "parts" in
G-d.

My own opinion [as your words are YOUR "opinion"] is that "denying yourself" is NOT in reference to our spiritual natures, but our flesh, which
does NOT include the ability to reason.

The "natural mind" has nothing to do with the ability to reason. It has to do with setting our spiritual minds on the desires of the flesh, rather
than the desires of the spirit.

In fact, the flesh does NOT "reason". It simply reacts to its own desires. Unless we keep these desires in control using our minds, we will
miss out on what G-d has for us in Christ.

Our "entire being" is NOT "just spiritual". It includes both our spirits/souls [our intellectual and rational abilities] as well as our bodies.
When Paul refers to the "flesh", he is referring to the desires of our bodies. It was NOT our minds which died in Christ, it was our bodies.
Our minds are being transformed to be "like" the mind of Christ. Our bodies will be transformed to be like his when we put on immortality
and incorruption when we are raised from the dead or changed when he returns.

If we refuse to use our rational abilities, our bodies will rule over our souls, and we will NOT gain the mind of Christ.
YOU, 3d, are the one who uses the term "natural mind". I do not. I do NOT have a "natural mind". I have a G-d-given
and created mind, which is like His. When Paul uses the words "natural mind", he is NOT referring to the substance
of our minds, he is referring to people allowing their minds to be controlled by the desires of the body. Unless our
minds control our bodies, we will continue in sin. This is why Paul teaches that "the mind set upon the flesh is death,
but the mind set on the Spirit is Life and Peace."

BTW, my name is NOT "Daniel". It is "Donald Lee".

a servant of Christ Jesus,

Donald Lee McDaniel

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 28, 2012 3:44:26 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 28, 2012 3:46:46 PM PDT
3D says:
To: andthehorseirodeinontoo...

All that the Father has is in the Son. All that the Son has is realized by and thru the Spirit. The Son is the embodiment and fullness of the Godhead. (Note scripture: All the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily in the Son). The Father comes in the Son and with the Spirit. The Spirit comes with the Father and the Son. The 3 coexist and coinhere. Therefore they are not 3; yet, neither are they 1. The Father reveals all in the Son and the Spirit declares to us all that the Son has received. Do you really think that because you cannot understand with your limited human mind that therefore the Word of God is without merit? Do you think your arrogance will save you? To say "they" are separate and distinct entities is to make a mockery out of the Word of God. Do you really think you can stand at the very edge of darkness and survive?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 29, 2012 8:57:02 AM PDT
you have not explained what the godhead is
why people think it smooshes all 3 entities into one

they are clearly different

Jesus = Son
is not
Father = God

and the Spirit is a third separate thing

what my mind cant comprehend is illogical boolsheet that people try to make up to cover up apparent contradictions in the bible that they dont understand

Posted on Jun 30, 2012 6:35:10 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 30, 2012 6:45:27 AM PDT
Charles says:
The idea of the godhead came from the hippy movement in the sixties. For those that were looking for god in those times rhe godhead was all that god was. It was believed that we all returned to be one with the godhead afetr death.
Then cam e the new age fundamentalists. Wanting a bigger share of the market, churches started catering to these hippy wanderers and brought their ideas into the church to bring them into the church. Remember, part of the big social changes was the rearrangement of the churches.
So Fundamentist churches and the Southern Baptist Convention brought the two together and terms and ideas from both formed the new age fundamnetist religion. The NIV was wrtten to accommodate the new religion and the FDTL ( fundamentists ) as we known them today was born !!

Then you need to fast forward to the eighties when Crossroads got into the act, but that's a different story !

Posted on Jul 20, 2012 3:06:11 AM PDT
A. Mercer says:
God in hebrew is plural as a noun and singular as a verb. (Plural not as in 2+, but 3 or more (its different in the hebrew))

The Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are God. They are one "unit". The LORD is One (Deut 6:4)

Jesus has, as the Messiah, the title "Son of God"; meaning that He is the heir of the Godhead. Jesus on many occasions claimed to be the "I AM" - i.e. God

When Jesus said that only the Father knows the date of the rapture, and that He didn't know, He said it when He had surrendered many of His divine attributes such as knowing everything and being everywhere. Now He has them all back. Jesus knows when He will rapture the Church.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 20, 2012 2:13:36 PM PDT
Mercersaid: "God in hebrew is plural as a noun and singular as a verb. (Plural not as in 2+, but 3 or more"

And your source of information is. . .?

So why do you suppose that the Jews are not Trinitarian?

What you are actually suggesting here is that there are multiple gods - not multiple persons within one God.

Anyone familiar with Hebrew would be familiar with Hebrew plurals of amplification, of excellence or majesty. It's called pluralis maiestatis. The Gesenius Kautsch Hebrew Grammar discusses this feature of Hebrew. There is also and article on the subject in "The American Journal of Semitic Languages and Literature." I'd have to dig out the article on my home computer if you are interested.

As for your suggestion that Jesus claimed to be the "I AM," You would first need to establish the validity of the presumption that the Hebrew word, 'ehyeh' means "I am." This word is an imperfect verb, indicating action that is incomplete, and usually corresponds to our future tense in English. In other words, "I will be," not "I am." And this is how the word is translated in most of the 50+ verses where it occurs in the Bible

Not only that, but the words Jesus used (ego eimi) are not the same as the words used in the Septuagint. In the Septuagint, the title used by God was "ho on." - the "Being."

You have some problems with your assertions. Sorry.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 26, 2012 2:37:16 PM PDT
Scott says:
The Godhead is not a concept. It is simply thus: there are 3 divine persons in heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. They are separate and distinct persons just like other groups of persons would be. They are also one in the sense of being one in goal, unity, and purpose just as a husband and wife become one in goal, unity, and purpose, yet they still remain two persons.

Remember even Jesus prayed to the Father that the disciples would become one even as they (the Father and the Son) are one. Now in what sense did the disciples become one? Did they cease to be separate people walking around in their own bodies? No! The only answer that makes any sense is that the disciples became one in goal, purpose, and unity just as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one. The only difference in this unity is that the bonds that exist in people being one in unity and in family ties are of a finite nature whereas in the case of divine persons, the bond is of an infinite nature.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 26, 2012 5:39:40 PM PDT
Scott,

Your definition is good, but there is another difference between the bonds which exist in the Persons of God and the bonds which exist in
human persons: we have bodies, while the persons of the Godhead have no bodies, being Infinite in both Substance and Nature. Their
Substance is Spirit, while their Nature is rational intelligence.

If we say that Christ Jesus is "the Tabernacle of God", we say rightly, because the fullness of the Godhead [i.e., "Father, Word {Son}, and
Holy Spirit"] dwells in Christ Jesus bodily. Not "as" Christ Jesus, but "in" Christ Jesus.

The Persons of the Godhead all have one thing

If we say that God, the Word, became the Person, Christ Jesus, in spirit, soul, and body,
in Substance, we make God to have a body, when He has none. If we say that there are
two Minds/Natures in the one Person of Christ Jesus -- God the Word, and Jesus of Nazareth,
we correctly identify both Christ Jesus and the Word of the Father.

a servant of Christ Jesus,

Donald Lee McDaniel

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 26, 2012 7:16:55 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 28, 2012 7:02:06 PM PDT
and, actually, as God, Jesus atoned for sin, which man can't do, and as man, He took on our sinful nature to the cross, although innocent. He deemed Himself a servant to His Eternal Father as man, but was still God the Eternal Son. (John 1:1, Matthew 12:6). Peace always in the Most Precious Blood of Christ

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 26, 2012 7:29:23 PM PDT
and... said: "Yet some how the "godhead", whatever the bleep that means, concept somehow equates all these different things into one identity yet keeps them separate.

ILLOGICAL TO THE MAX. Why is this not just total bullbleep by people.

So if you can explain it as noted above then I am all ears to hear your response."

and..., think about music.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 26, 2012 7:48:32 PM PDT
brunumb says:
Still trying to squeeze three genies back into the one bottle.

Christianity; Two thousand years of making it up as you go along.
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