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Interfaith dialogue Part II (Continuation of the "Do Christians learn these teachings in the NT... thread)

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In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012 8:53:52 PM PDT
Bryan Borich says:
Yes, she has stated before that one reason she choose Christianity is that it required no effort on her part.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012 9:00:51 PM PDT
Ryan Willis says:
Something that has been brought to my attention by someone is that the word translated "receive" sometimes in the NT writings isn't a good representation of what is really meant. The word "receive" as we understand in English tends to carry a more effortless meaning where certainly "receiving" requires you to give a response but it is a very inactive response. I have yet to clarify it but the Greek word I suppose should be rendered in some places in Hebrews and John's writings as actually meaning "to take hold of" rather than "receive" in the generic English sense. The major difference being that this, if it be true, proper rendering of what the Greek word meant would shed light on the fact that we do have a part to play and we have to put in effort and we have choices to make if we truly want to have what we believe God has offered to us. It would seem "receiving" is meant to be taken as an active action that requires effort on our part, a physical action, not just opening up our hearts, although that is good but that is not all that needs to be done.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012 9:03:39 PM PDT
JR Rawlins says:
Thank you so much Ryan! I really do appreciate you doing this for us.

But one little persnickty thing. Leaven was only cleansed before the Passover/Unleavened Bread, but not for every Sabbath?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012 9:06:51 PM PDT
JR Rawlins says:
-)

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012 9:14:14 PM PDT
Cheri says:
To me, you can't 'work out' your salvation. God tells us we need to be perfect and since Adam and Eve sinned the only perfect person was Jesus. If we can't work and be perfect to be with God, then we must look at why Jesus came and died. It had to be for the reason He said, to die for our sins, or He was a liar.

Praise God we can come to Him through His grace. In the OT men were saved because they believed in the promise of the Messiah and showed their faith through their obedience. They were faithful in giving sacrifices for their sins and when Jesus, the Messiah came, He finished the sacrifices through His death.

There is no 'rub' for me. I just wish you could understand the deep love God has for you in sending His Son to die for your sins. I think our pride is what keeps so many from admitting they need to confess their sins or that we need to accept His sacrifice. They feel they can do enough good works to balance the scales, but God's scales are based on either accepting His Son or not - which is rejecting His Son.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012 9:18:51 PM PDT
Ryan Willis says:
Hmm thank you for correcting me on that. I missed that one in my fast typing. My apologies, I will fix that right now.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012 9:20:14 PM PDT
Cheri says:
"All of my Eschatological view is subject to change at anytime should the Lord cause any future revelations that would change or go contrary to what I believe at present but for now what I am sharing is what I have found makes the most sense to me. And with that out of the way let's continue.."

This is all I am asking Ryan. I think each of us feel the same way, we are open to God's leading.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012 9:26:19 PM PDT
Ryan Willis says:
I made the appropriate adjustments. I didn't need to put the leaven bit on there at all even. My point was about the timing stuff with how the Sabbath works, whether weekly, monthly, etc. And the point of preparation of the household, whether cleansing from leaven or not, because the Sabbath was to be set apart as holy. Those were my real points. I hate it when my brain and hands are not working at the same wavelength and thus I end up with extra things that are inaccurate and distort what I'm saying.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012 9:28:45 PM PDT
Cheri says:
We are perfect when we accept Jesus as the sacrifice. At least in God's eyes, His sacrifice covers our sins so all God sees is perfection.

Think of a needlepoint project, I'm sure you have seen them somewhere at some point in time. When you work on it, the underside is full of knots, strings, crisscrossed threads and looks a mess. When you turn it over after it is finished, you see a beautiful picture or scene that is perfect. You can't see all the mistakes made along the way.

I see God's work in the same way. From His viewpoint we are perfect because we have asked His Son to forgive us for our sins and accepted Him into our hearts and lives. However, from our viewpoint, we see our lives as full of mistakes, unfinished projects, times of trouble and times of great happiness.

What a relief that we don't have to keep trying to be perfect. However, living a Christian life is not the easiest road in life. We still have trials and difficult times, many the result of wrong choices - which we can still make even as a believer.

The difference is He walks with us and at times carries us when things get too hard. I am a testament of this.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012 9:45:53 PM PDT
Bryan Borich says:
yes, it's like the example you take two steps, god takes one.

And everybody does it, some do it faster though. And it helps if you are aware of it.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012 9:48:05 PM PDT
T. D. Mills says:
I am glad that you live a joyful life. But you can only control your life; it is what happens after this life that I care about. Eternity is a very long time to be wrong. God wants us to serve Him not humanity. When we serve Him He takes care of and provides for us. I know the Bible is the inspired Word of God because God's Holy Spirit lives within me and testifies to its truth. It is not my job to try to convince you of anything, my job is to share the saving Gospel of Christ and the Holy Spirit will convict and convince you of His truth if He so chooses. I love Jesus and my personal walk with Him and I would not trade it for anything in the world. I live in His perfect peace that surpasses understanding and I am filled with joy of the Lord as I seek His will for my life. I know my eternity is secure in His presence and I look forward to the day I see Him face to face.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012 9:48:24 PM PDT
Birutegal says:
lambano, to receive, some meanings: to take
to admit, receive
to receive what is offered
not to refuse or reject

salvation is a gift; one need only to accept it, as the beggar accepts the money.

A gift does not have strings attached. One does with the gift as he pleases: he can ignore the gift or use it.

Use John 3:16 as a barometer whether a verse is speaking of the one-time gift of salvation, a believer being saved from God's judgement in the here and now, or whether the verse is teaching on maintaining a believer's fellowship with the Father and the Son.

If any verse questions the fact that salvation comes to one by hearing the gospel that Jesus died for our sins and rose again, then type in the reference verse in the upper left search box on http://www.faithalone.org/

Adding to the righteousness of Christ is negating his righteousness as being sufficient, whose righteousness is IMPUTED to the believer who is sealed by the HS unto the day of redemption.

He has paid it all, all to Him I owe...

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012 9:49:28 PM PDT
Bryan Borich says:
>We are perfect when we accept Jesus as the sacrifice. At least in God's eyes, His
>sacrifice covers our sins so all God sees is perfection.

No you are not, you're committing the same old sins as before and adding new ones on top of that.

Jesus said specifically 'Be perfect', Not 'Be perfect through my blood'.

>From His viewpoint we are perfect because we have asked His Son to forgive us for
>our sins and accepted Him into our hearts and lives.

No you are not. You are to ask the Master/Father, not the servant. And even than you aren't made perfect, just forgiven in what you did against God. Not forgiven in regards to what you did to others.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012 9:52:25 PM PDT
T. D. Mills says:
Amen Bir, glad your back sister!

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012 9:55:53 PM PDT
Birutegal says:
amen, sister Cheri! By grace are we saved, through faith which comes by hearing the Word of God, not of works, lest any of us boast. All glory goes to God. We cannot add anything to Christ's righteousness; it is sufficient.

But...if we love him, if we want to be his friend; if we want to grow in maturity and "know" him, we will work outwardly those things that show others that we are saved and that they, too, can be saved, otherwise we do not produce fruit.

In Luke 19:11-27 we learn that there are rewards for the believers (servants) who were faithful and good but not a special reward for the wicked believer. The unbelievers (citizens) perished.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012 9:59:49 PM PDT
Birutegal says:
Thanks, td. These threads are too long to keep up with; I thought I'd peek in here and butted in.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012 10:01:40 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 1, 2012 10:07:05 PM PDT
Astrocat says:
Well, whoever wrote Philippians thought that it was necessary to "work out your salvation in fear and trembling", so obviously there has been some thought on that subject. Moreover, there is the phrase in James that "faith without works is dead". I don't think you can have it both ways.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012 10:06:27 PM PDT
Astrocat says:
T.D., I am not in the least concerned about what happens after this personality dies, and that's because I know what will happen. I will continue to exist, as Soul, having added to my experiences through this incarnation, which was the culmination of all my previous incarnations.

I also know that "my eternity is secure", but not in the same way as you. I know that my "eternity" will be spent serving as a disciple of the Christ through however many incarnations are needed, and then, when all karma has been taken care of and the physical life no longer attracts, there will be the first stages of enlightenment. After that will come an awareness of whatever needs to be accomplished, according to the divine Plan.

Continuing work, continuing service.

"And what did you do before enlightenment?"
"Chopped wood, carried water."
"And what did you do after enlightenment?"
"Chopped wood, carried water."

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012 10:21:33 PM PDT
Cheri says:
You are so right Tonya. God wants the best for us, He planned for us to have the very best. He didn't bring sin into the world, man did by choosing to follow another rather than God.

We all sin, I am not saying one sin is worse than another although I can't imagine a lie being the same as child abuse - but I will leave God to judge sins.

In my life, He has made life worth living, a life full of His goodness and mercy.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012 10:28:34 PM PDT
Cheri says:
Love that hymn, Bir. Jesus DID pay it all. I know the blessing of recieving a gift out of love with no strings attached. God wants to bless us although it can be humbling it shows us the unconditional love of Jesus through others. When we bless, we are blessed and can bless others.

I love when Jesus brings into my life someone that He planned for me to meet that day. How exciting to go the store or a doctor's appointment and find out we had a Divine appointment!

I have a friend who is having to go through chemo again. She told me she is looking forward to who God will have there at the same time that He knows needs an encouraging word or an upifting touch from someone when they are at their lowest.

Thanks for the reference site. I haven't used faithalone.org before, but I will certainly check it out.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012 10:30:50 PM PDT
Cheri says:
Bryan you are being deceived and by the best. He wants people to think that Jesus expects us to do the impossible and that no one can get to Him through Jesus. This has been satan's plan from the beginning of time.

He is different than most picture him, not in a red suit with a pitchfork, but a charming influence who tells you what you want to hear.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012 10:31:26 PM PDT
Linda Sang says:
JR: But one little persnickty thing. Leaven was only cleansed before the Passover/Unleavened Bread, but not for every Sabbath?

LINDA: You are correct; that was an error in Ryan's post. Cleansing the house of leaven is only done once a year before Passover, not for every Sabbath.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012 10:33:58 PM PDT
Cheri says:
So glad you are back, Birutegal. I am always blessed by you. How is your family? I am sure they are growing, time seems to pass so fast. At times, I wish for it to still be when my girls were very small. Back then, I wished for them to be grown and know that they would turn out to be lovers of Christ and to teach their children. So many just wish they will be happy, but I had bigger dreams.

The best part of being a grandma is seeing this come to pass.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012 10:34:58 PM PDT
Bryan Borich says:
So Jesus lied than?

And the Bible was written by Satan......

>but a charming influence who tells you what you want to hear.

But that's why you picked christanity, it told you what you wanted to hear. That you didn't have to do anything but kill Jesus, and that was fine with you.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2012 10:42:22 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 1, 2012 11:22:09 PM PDT
Birutegal says:
Cheri says:
The two don't mix, meet, have the same teachings, nothing in common.

biru: and that's the truth! Buddhism has been "cleaned up" for western sensibilities.

Jesus declared that He is the way, the truth, and the life and that no one comes to the Father except through him.

Jesus fulfilled via his atonement for our sins what the animal sacrifices made in the temple foreshadowed.
He died so that we might live (eternally).
Believers are imputed with the righteousness of Jesus.
We are to meditate on God's Word.
Bodily exercise profits little.
We dare not immolate ourselves by setting fire to our bodies which are the tabernacle of the HS.
We are to take care of our families, our neighbors, anyone in need.
we are to be a light to the world.
We die only once and then are judged: we either live eternally with God or we perish (john 3:16) There is no reincarnation or soul transmigrations, a totally pagan concept which the New agers have adopted.
God gives us all good things to enjoy.
The HS is the power from on high which guides us and helps us to avoid sin, as we listen to him.
We are in a relationship with our Lord, not a religion.
There is but one God who created all there is and will judge the living and the dead.
we are accountable to God for all our thoughts and actions.
We are to follow Christ and keep his commandments.
We all have missed the mark of the high calling of God; we are sinners.
Jesus is the only one who rose from the dead to live forevermore.
Only Jesus could atone for our sins.
We have the righteousness of Jesus imputed to us.
Without faith, it is impossible to please God.

Christians have abolished slavery, human sacrifice, outlawed incest, pedo, cannibalism, and the western countries are a refuge for women and children having provided respect and rights for women.

Christians have built hospitals in third world countries, buy Sudanese out of slavery, rescue young women out of lives of prostitution, help victims of natural disasters, dig wells to provide clean water, open schools in third world countries, etc. they help millions of people.
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Discussion in:  Christianity forum
Participants:  48
Total posts:  10000
Initial post:  May 2, 2012
Latest post:  Jun 11, 2012

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