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Psychology of God.


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In reply to an earlier post on Jun 25, 2012 11:31:18 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 25, 2012 11:34:41 AM PDT
Bubba says:
Thank you. My apologies, I mis-remembered what you had said a while back. I edited my post.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 25, 2012 1:43:04 PM PDT
mrs exp says:
Newbomb Turk,
"Strawman. Being and atheist doesn't somehow elevate you. You just don't believe in a god."

To hear the talk of some atheists you sure would think that they think they are more intelligent.
exp

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 25, 2012 1:44:38 PM PDT
mrs exp says:
Bubba,
You may be remembering that I did vote that a homosexual could be fired just for being a homosexual. I've gotten smarter since then. I didn't think of this until later in the evening. Sorry for being so dumb back then.
exp

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 25, 2012 1:45:24 PM PDT
Newbomb Turk says:
Mrs E,
that why I included this in my response:

"Although I'm sure atheists like that exist, and online discussion boards make them more pronounced, I can assure you that's not the norm."

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 25, 2012 1:46:46 PM PDT
mrs exp says:
Newbomb Turk,
And the same is true of Christians, the forums don't represent the norm.
Sorry for not not noticing that.
exp

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 29, 2012 2:12:27 AM PDT
Bohemian Man says:
mrs exp

I don't think Atheist think they're smarter than Christians.

They just can't understand why Christians don't use the same critical thinking skills on their religious beliefs as they do on everything else in their lives.

Posted on Jun 29, 2012 1:21:56 PM PDT
MLC says:
Lao Tzu wrote: "I "know" there is no God in the sense that I "know" how to drive a car, or know that my girlfriend loves me. It means for all intents and purposes."

Are you sure your girlfriend loves you? LOL!

But seriously, the only way anyone would know for certain that God doesn't exist is if they knew everything there was to know in the universe. No atheist knows everything there is to know in the universe. Hence, atheism is an untenable position based on blind faith.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 29, 2012 1:29:22 PM PDT
Andre Lieven says:
MLC spins a great deal of straw:'But seriously, the only way anyone would know for certain that God doesn't exist is if they knew everything there was to know in the universe. No atheist knows everything there is to know in the universe. Hence, atheism is an untenable position based on blind faith.'

So, since no theist knows everything, then their view that there is no Zeus is also blind faith.

-I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.-

In any case, your claim is wrong. One need not know everything about the planets to be pretty sure that no china teacups currently orbit Mars.

Posted on Jun 29, 2012 1:31:53 PM PDT
MLC says:
Bohemian Man wrote: "They just can't understand why Christians don't use the same critical thinking skills on their religious beliefs as they do on everything else in their lives."

Have you ever read anything by William Lane Craig or Ravi Zacharias or Greg Koukl or Norman Geisler or Gary Habermas or Doug Groothuis or Michael Licona or Michael Behe or Hugh Ross or Kenneth Samples or Mary Jo Sharp? If not, then please do so. They are all highly intelligent and use critical thinking and reason to approach the topic of God, the Bible, Christianity, atheism, etc.

To dismiss all Christians as unthinking is both unfair and just plain inaccurate. Why is it that so many atheists think that just calling Christians stupid is all the argument they need for rejecting God? It isn't any argument at all.

You say you "used to be a Christian". How are you defining that term? There are two types of Christians -- the nominal kind, that is, the ones who sit in a church and give some mental assent to what is being said, and the real kind, that is, the ones who are in a relationship with God through the person of Jesus Christ by the infilling of the Holy Spirit.

You must have been the former because if you were the latter, you might walk away from God if you were angry with him over some hardship in your life, but you wouldn't deny his existence. It would be like suddenly denying that your earthly father no longer existed even though you once thought that he did.

It's like this:

You can sit in a chicken coop, cluck and eat chicken feed, but that doesn't make you a chicken.

By the same token, you can sit in a church, sing the hymns and listen to the sermons, but that doesn't make you a Christian.

Posted on Jun 29, 2012 1:34:59 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 29, 2012 1:36:51 PM PDT
MLC says:
Andre wrote: "So, since no theist knows everything, then their view that there is no Zeus is also blind faith."

I'm sorry, but that isn't a valid response. My point is that you would have to know everything in the universe to be sure that there is no such a being as God. I didn't say that you would have to know everything in the universe to be sure that a specific god such as Zeus doesn't exist. There is a difference between proving a universal negative and a specific negative. The former can't be done. The latter can.

There is no evidence for Zeus. There is plenty of evidence for the God of the Bible -- cosmological, teleological, axiological, experiential, historical to name a few. Please check out ex-atheist J. Warner Wallace's web site: pleaseconvinceme.com.

Play fair, Andre!

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 29, 2012 1:52:29 PM PDT
Andre Lieven says:
MLC:'I'm sorry, but that isn't a valid response.'

-That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.-

'My point is that you would have to know everything in the universe to be sure that there is no such a being as God.'

How much of the world have you searched to be sure that there is no Santa ?

'There is plenty of evidence for the God of the Bible.'

This is the Big Lie of religion. No, there isn't. No cosmology supports the claim of any deity, and such things as experiential also support the view that there are around 10,000 Emperor Napoleons around right now.

Words have meaning, and in science (As well as the law), the word -evidence- has a specific meaning, one that NOTHING preferred by any god botherer has ever matched.

Nor do any claims of any so called 'former atheists', which also fall under the evidence free assertion dismissals.

We atheists do argue fairly. We merely point out that NO evidence supports the claim that any deity exists.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 29, 2012 2:14:53 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 29, 2012 2:16:12 PM PDT
Bubba says:
There is no need to know for certain that gods don't exist to not believe that they exist. There are something like 3,000 gods that have been claimed to exist, and NO evidence has been provided of their existance. If you have any evidence for any god existing, we would appreciate you presenting it.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 30, 2012 12:34:06 AM PDT
Bohemian Man says:
MLC,

Yes, I have read all those apologist.

They are intelligent but remember, intelligent people are good at explaining how they came to their beliefs through unintelligent means.

Also, I was a born again, spirit filled, fundamentalist, minister with the Assemblies of God.

I am today an Agnostic, NOT an Atheist.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 30, 2012 8:53:21 AM PDT
JJB says:
BM

That's fascinating. you said you were, "a born again, spirit filled, fundamentalist, minister with the Assemblies of God."

what was your aha moment?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 30, 2012 8:57:55 AM PDT
Harry Marks says:
Bohemian Man -

In a post on communication with conservative Christians (I am a liberal theologically, believing that no supernatural version of theology is needed to be a Christian, for example), I noted that generally they are unwilling to get into issues of, say, how to reconcile aspects of scripture that seem at variance with one another (Romans vs. James, just to get started) with a theological liberal.. However, it occured to me that several times, Pentacostals have been willing to talk long after most evangelicals would have stopped.

Since you have some perspective, I wonder if you have any insight to offer on why that might be.

Thx,
Harry Marx

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 30, 2012 1:12:39 PM PDT
mrs exp says:
Bohemian Man,
Do you see some advantage to being agnostic rather than atheist?
exp

Posted on Jun 30, 2012 9:54:41 PM PDT
Bohemian Man says:
I'll respond to the above 3 post later.

Got to check my Hookah garden right now. Stay posted (:

ALOHA!

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 1, 2012 8:21:23 AM PDT
Bohemian Man says:
JJB asks "what was my aha moment".

There were many.

One day I'll post my whole story, But for now I'll generalize it by saying...

When a person hasn't been taught critical thinking skills, they are prone to accept what they are told by authoritative figures. That may be their parents, church, or teachers.

I started to see that what I had been TOLD and what I was actually SEEING were two different things.

I also began to see that even my esoteric experiences as a Christian could be explained by rational thought.

I didn't become an Atheist, but I did eventually become Agnostic.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 1, 2012 8:42:17 AM PDT
Bohemian Man says:
Harry Marks,

Interesting question,

I can't speak for all Pentecostals, but I DO know that Pentecostals have a form of gnosticism about them.

Beyond the debate with words, a Pentecostal may feel that a Damascus type revelation may overcome the person they're debating and open their eyes to the truth as they see it.

Most Pentecostals are fighters when it comes to their theological positions. They seldom concede those positions.

Many Evangelicals believe in predestination. Others in eternal security (once saved always saved), But Pentecostals believe you can fall from grace and lose your salvation.

This makes them more adamant about convincing you. After all, (according to them) your eternal soul is on the line.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 1, 2012 8:57:30 AM PDT
Bohemian Man says:
mrs exp asks "do you see some advantage to being agnostic rather than atheist"?

I don't look at it as an advantage one way or the other.

I personally feel that agnosticism is the only truthful position for ANYONE to hold.

We can't PROVE the existence or non existence of God. Just like we can't prove Santa Claus does or doesn't exist. (you can't prove a negative).

Believing in a Deity is a matter of FAITH, That's why it's called a BELIEF.

I think the Bible actually describes faith the best: "Faith is the substance of things HOPED for, the evidence of things NOT seen".

I'll accept that.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 1, 2012 9:03:06 AM PDT
Harry Marks says:
Bohemian Man -
"Most Pentecostals are fighters when it comes to their theological positions. They seldom concede those positions."

Interesting. That matches my experience with lay people, although they could also be quite patient. In the case of discussions with a pastor, he did not seem to be interested in fighting. It was more like head-nodding and explaining where, in his view, we had common ground.

Expecting the other side to come around, eventually, seems to be the common factor. I wonder if the extent of personal experience with "out there" (esoteric) experiences may develop more confidence.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 1, 2012 9:06:19 AM PDT
Harry Marks says:
Bohemian Man -

Wherever people believe that happiness is the best gift to give children, that giving is better than receiving, that celebrating togetherness is enhanced by thoughtful gifts for one another, Santa Claus is not far away.

Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 1, 2012 9:07:41 AM PDT
Harry Marks says:
mrs exp -

"I've gotten smarter since then."

I beleive in progressive revelation. Don't you?

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 1, 2012 9:19:44 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 1, 2012 9:26:58 AM PDT
Bohemian Man says:
Harry Marks,

I didn't mean to use the word "fighter" in the confrontational sense. They simply seem to hang in there longer.

Pentecostals today are a different group than in days of old when they would have just slapped you on the forehead and start speaking in tongues.

They still have their snake handlers and flat earthers, but overall, they have gone pretty much mainstream.

As far as esoteric experiences, yes, they do create more confidence.

Just talk to anyone who's had a near death experience.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 1, 2012 11:58:24 AM PDT
mrs exp says:
Bohemian Man,
It is a matter of faith. But I have seen miracles in my life. Not big miracles like and amputated limb returning or a cancer going away. But I have heard from God with a thought in my mind that I knew wasn't mine. So I believe I have that evidence that God really exists and I trust him with my life.
exp
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This discussion

Discussion in:  Christianity forum
Participants:  18
Total posts:  82
Initial post:  Jun 20, 2012
Latest post:  Jul 1, 2012

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