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The Holy Spirit is a person


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In reply to an earlier post on Apr 11, 2012 11:25:53 AM PDT
Book worm says:
whomper,

THE Bible's use of "holy spirit" indicates that it is a controlled force that God uses to accomplish a variety of his purposes.

So the question are they symbolically/figuratively or literaly speaking. That's when all scriptures on the matter HAVE to be considered to harmonize.

The clear and undisputable fact that Jesus died proclaiming on earth that God was his heavenly father, is the greatest of all.
Because, God clearly and undisputable tells us that Mary became pregnant by holy spirit.
Again, that was appropriate to everyone and still is, because holy spirit is not a person, but God's active force, there no dispute on this matter, with Satan, the fallen angels or anyone in heaven. Stan tried to temp Jesus, while on earth, if holy spirit was a person, that would have been the biggest ammunition he could of used.

(Matthew 1:18) 18 But the birth of Jesus Christ was in this way. During the time his mother Mary was promised in marriage to Joseph, she was found to be pregnant by holy spirit before they were united. . .

(Matthew 1:20) . . ."Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary your wife home, for that which has been begotten in her is by holy spirit.

Please read the previous post to its entirety, and all the supporting scriptures, this is an important subject that requires deep meditation, prayer for holy spirit, and our full reasoning from ALL the scriptures.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 11, 2012 11:26:46 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 11, 2012 11:29:34 AM PDT
John says:
Book worm

No you haven't answered my questions.You danced around them.When you cannot answer questions them something is wrong somewhere.So AGAIN,answer these question-
Can a force teach?Can a force lead you into all truth?Can a force be lied to?Can a force make intercession for you?And why did Jesus refer to the Holy Spirit as "HE"?A force will not be referred to as HE.Funny how you never seem to have an answer to these questions even though the Bible says the Holy Spirit does each of these things.
Do you believe Jesus is Micheal the arch angel?Until you can answer these questions you have proven nothing and the bible has proven you wrong.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 11, 2012 11:41:46 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 11, 2012 11:58:20 AM PDT
Book worm says:
john,
I've answered your question, YES.
GOD is all powerfull, he has and can have his spirt do whatever he wants to, fill us with, move us to action, comfort us, speak for us, teach us, it helped Jesus on earth, and in heaven, etc...
God once said, he would have a rock witness to the people, are you saying GOD is not powerful enough to make that rock speak? You would claim the rock is a person, its alive.....

Even GOD at Jesus baptism, said from heaven this is my son whom I have approved of........
Your reasoning, would be that it was not GOD, but "the person" who got Mary pregnant "holly sprit"

GOD, Jesus, even Satan has a name, but the holy spirit a person that you claim has no name????

I've answered your question, many times
The question, delima you cant explain to support your stand, is about Mary becoming pregnant by Holy spirit.
So then is Holy Spirit our Lord and saviours father???
Since you claim holy spirit is a person.
NO, Jesus, his apostles, not even Satan who tempted him on earth, used that claim, and is not even a debatable idea in heaven.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 11, 2012 11:59:37 AM PDT
John says:
Book worm
No you have NOT answered my questions.I asked specific questions and either you don't know the answer or afraid to answer the questions.Why are you so scared to answer these questions?is it because the bible proves you wrong?

So this is the last time I will ask and don't lie and say you answered them.Give an answer to each question.1-Can a force be lied to? 2-Can a force make intercession for you? 3-Can a force lead you into all truth? 4-Can a force teach? 5-If the Holy Spirit is a force why did Jesus refer to Him as He? "he will lead you..."He will teach you..." The Bible says the Holy spirit can do all of these things.and last question 6-Do you believe Jesus is Micheal the arch angel?
Now i have asked 6 specific questions.Please answer them,if you can.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 11, 2012 12:06:20 PM PDT
John says:
Book worm
As for Mary being the spouse of the Holy Spirit, this is a poetic (but true) expression referring to her total self-commitment to God ("Behold the handmaid of the Lord, be it done unto me according to Your Word" -- Luke 1:38). So, this does not mean that the Holy Spirit is to be seen as Jesus' earthly or temporal "father," as if the Holy Spirit and Mary had normal marital relations, and so produced a son from them, etc. Rather, Mary acts as an image of both Creation, Israel, and the Church; and the Holy Spirit "weds" himself to her in a creative act, just as the "Spirit of God moves over the waters" of the new and unformed **earth** (Creation) in Genesis 1:2, and just as He came upon the people of Israel at the base of Sinai and upon the Church at Pentecost, thereby "creating" them into a people. In the same way, the Spirit comes upon Mary so as to form the human nature of Jesus from her. And this does not make Him (the Spirit) the "earthly father" of Jesus in the sense that Mary becomes Jesus' earthly mother for two essential reasons:

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 11, 2012 12:25:44 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 11, 2012 12:34:52 PM PDT
Book worm says:
John
We cant have it both ways, either the holy spirit is a person or GODS active force. Mary surrendered to GOD to do his will, no question, was their actual relations, I was not Insinuating that. But true to precise, and accurate wording of the scriptures, Mary was pregnant by holy spirit.

(Matthew 1:18) 18 But the birth of Jesus Christ was in this way. During the time his mother Mary was promised in marriage to Joseph, she was found to be pregnant by holy spirit before they were united. . .

(Matthew 1:20) . . ."Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary your wife home, for that which has been begotten in her is by holy spirit

If the holy spirit is a person, GOD would not of used him, GOD is powerfull enough to miracolously of done this HIMSLEF, to hold true to being his father. BUT because holy spirit is not a person, it was appropriate to use holy spirit.

Just think Satan who was in heaven, knew everyone in heaven, before Adam and Eve sinned.
Satan never tempted or argued with Jesus on this matter.

Stan is the ruler of this world, Jesus said:
(John 12:31) 31 Now there is a judging of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.

(1 Corinthians 2:12) 12 Now we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God, that we might know the things that have been kindly given us by God.

Their is not another bad spirit (a person), it refers to Satan's influence, his will, his power to blind the minds of many...... Similiar to God's holy spirit, except doing GOD's will

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 11, 2012 12:34:33 PM PDT
Theresa says:
More precisely:
The Holy Spirit is a Person... and a divine One at that.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 11, 2012 12:47:01 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 11, 2012 1:21:27 PM PDT
Faithradha says:
John says: The Bible proves,through scripture.that the Holy Spirit is a person yet some cults refuse to believe the Bible.

FR: Last time I checked Scripture REVEALS to us that "God" is Infinite BE~ing... as in the verb To Be. Being THAT which is ALL Pervasive All Knowing, and existing beyond all limitations, existing even beyond ALL "His" Attributes.. That Divine ONE is BOTH Unmanifest Consciousness AND Manifest Consciousness.
In other words, "God" can chose to manifest AS a physical person, a non-physical subtle spirit, or to simply remain UNmanifest, as Perfect Consciousness/Awareness itself.

Do you even know what Grace is? It is not just some words we speak over a dead turkey when Aunt Lil shows up for Thanksgiving. It is the ACTIVE Power... or FORCE .. if you will... OF "God".. which is Infinite Consciousness. That ONE can manifest OR NOT... as IT so chooses.

Something else to consider... "God" is BOTH Immanent AND Transcendent. At times able to be known via the mind, while at other times totally UNKnowable to the finite mind of man. Grace is that extremely subtle, manifest power of "God" which IS God but which is not limited to that unmanifest Power.. because "God" is UNLIMITED.

Consider... the mind of man IS finite, while "God" is INFINITE
... do the math. :0

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 11, 2012 1:11:28 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 11, 2012 1:14:27 PM PDT
John says:
Book worm

Why are you so scared to answer my questions?I gave you 6 specific questions to answer and you're either scared to answer them or you have no answer.And ,of course,you failed to answer them.You're right,you cannot have it both ways.The Bible proves the Holy Spirit is a person.I quoted the scriptures yet you refuse to believe them and are scared to answer 6 simple questions.
Is that how you minister to the lost?whenever they ask a specific question you don't answer it?Some will point out the exact scriputres I pointed out and ask the same questions.You will dance around the issue and not answer the question and they will think you don't know the bible at all.That what it seems like to me.Whenever i minister i use scripture and answer every question.i am not scared to answer any questions.You are what is referred to as a "babe in Christ'.You know a little of the bible but not that much.Certain questions frustrate you and you cannot come up with an answer.that is the reason you keep dancing around the question and not actually answering it.You need to study the bible more so you won't be scared to answer any questions,especially when you're ministering to the lost.
You are confused and God has not given us the spirit of confusion.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 11, 2012 1:29:01 PM PDT
Book worm says:
John, I answered your questions, already??...I will attach the exact cop of my reply. As far as using scriptures, I have provided many scriptures, I was the one who said ALL scriptures must be taken in consideration and harmonize. This is where your reasoning did not hold up to ALL the scriptures, especially the ones that clearly states, that Mary was pregnant by holy spirit, as you claim is a person, and thus is his father.

john,
I've answered your questions, YES.
GOD is all powerfull, he has and can have his spirt do whatever he wants to, fill us with, move us to action, comfort us, speak for us, teach us, it helped Jesus on earth, and in heaven, etc...
God once said, he would have a rock witness to the people, are you saying GOD is not powerful enough to make that rock speak? You would claim the rock is a person, its alive.....

Even GOD at Jesus baptism, said from heaven this is my son whom I have approved of........
Your reasoning, would be that it was not GOD, but "the person" who got Mary pregnant "holly sprit"

GOD, Jesus, even Satan has a name, but the holy spirit a person that you claim has no name????

I've answered your question, many times
The question, delima you cant explain to support your stand, is about Mary becoming pregnant by Holy spirit.
So then is Holy Spirit our Lord and saviours father???
Since you claim holy spirit is a person.
NO, Jesus, his apostles, not even Satan who tempted him on earth, used that claim, and is not even a debatable idea in heaven.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 11, 2012 1:29:37 PM PDT
Faithradha says:
Book worm says:
John,We cant have it both ways, either the holy spirit is a person or GODS active force.

FR AHHHH But there is your problem. The mind of man, being FINITE cannot fully grasp that INFINITE Reality which IS "God". While "God" can most certainly have it "BOTH" ways. There is nothing limiting "God" to one way or the other. The mind, which is contracted Consciousness does LIMIT...while "God" does not. "God's" State is very different from mans. "Our" ways are NOT "His" ways... not even close.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 11, 2012 1:36:40 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 11, 2012 1:41:28 PM PDT
John says:
Book worm

You did NOT answer my questions.I had them numbered them 1-6.So stop lying.Like I said,you are a babe in Christ and know a little Bible but have much to learn.Why are you so scared to answer my 6 questions?Also do you believe Jesus is Micheal the arch angel?

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 11, 2012 1:38:50 PM PDT
John says:
Book worm
"The question, delima you cant explain to support your stand, is about Mary becoming pregnant by Holy spirit.
So then is Holy Spirit our Lord and saviours father???"
UNLIKE you I have answered your exact questiion.Here it is again.
As for Mary being the spouse of the Holy Spirit, this is a poetic (but true) expression referring to her total self-commitment to God ("Behold the handmaid of the Lord, be it done unto me according to Your Word" -- Luke 1:38). So, this does not mean that the Holy Spirit is to be seen as Jesus' earthly or temporal "father," as if the Holy Spirit and Mary had normal marital relations, and so produced a son from them, etc. Rather, Mary acts as an image of both Creation, Israel, and the Church; and the Holy Spirit "weds" himself to her in a creative act, just as the "Spirit of God moves over the waters" of the new and unformed **earth** (Creation) in Genesis 1:2, and just as He came upon the people of Israel at the base of Sinai and upon the Church at Pentecost, thereby "creating" them into a people. In the same way, the Spirit comes upon Mary so as to form the human nature of Jesus from her. And this does not make Him (the Spirit) the "earthly father" of Jesus in the sense that Mary becomes Jesus' earthly mother for two essential reasons:

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 11, 2012 1:41:56 PM PDT
Book worm says:
Faithradaha, Your absolutely correct. A co workers used reasoning to claim that Satan is really GOD, testing the faithfull ones, weeding out the bad.
Then another person said that GOD was in the form of someone that literaly saved their lives, and who can argue any of this, GOD is all powerfull, and all things are possible. All I can do what the scriptures point to
(Acts 17:2, 3) 2 So according to Paul's custom he went inside to them, and for three sabbaths he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving by references that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and [saying]: "This is the Christ, this Jesus whom I am publishing to YOU."

(2 Timothy 3:16) ALL Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 11, 2012 1:46:00 PM PDT
Book worm says:
john,
what was question #6?

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 11, 2012 1:46:26 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 11, 2012 1:53:33 PM PDT
Faithradha says:
Book Worm: If the holy spirit is a person, GOD would not of used him,

FR: Why Not? Of course God "USED" Jesus... because "God" IS Jesus.
... "The FATHER and I are ONE" One = One
The form, which is made up of water and a few minerals can change, and in fact is always changing, but the ESSENCE of that form remains Constant. "God" is ONE, whether manifesting as a physical form, a non-physical subtle form...as in the Heavens, OR as Divine Energy/Power.. which is Grace, or simply as pure Unmanifest Consciousness / Awareness itself. "God" is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

Out of compassion for humanity, which exists in the physical realm, "God" Himself took on a physical form...For "God" the logistics are not a problem.... honest.

~
Some day more Christians will understand what Gandhi actually meant when he said that he wished MORE Christians could understand the True Greatness of Jesus... because they do not.
I did not understand what Gandhi meant when I first read that, but then Grace Struck and in that Instant I understood... and whole heartedly agree.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

BW says: GOD is powerfull enough to miracolously of done this HIMSELF, to hold true to being his father. BUT because holy spirit is not a person, it was appropriate to use holy spirit.

FR: And you are in a position to tell "God" what IS and IS Not appropriate? You miss the greater point here.... they are ALL the SAME ONE. Consider this... whether one is dealing with WATER, ICE, or STEAM... you are always dealing with H2o. Difference exists only in the finite, veiled mind's experience of it.

~ Peace ~

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 11, 2012 1:47:12 PM PDT
reply to John's post:

it is so clear that even a babe can know that micael is not Christ Jesus the nazarene and the Son of God
no matter what mikeys angel rank was

read the NT
even you will be ruling/judging the angels in the end
that is if you make it there at all

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 11, 2012 1:51:12 PM PDT
reply to Book worm's post:

and what is scripture ???

the lies the pope propaganda machine prints

the assemblage of writings that some committee in 300AD put together cause some roman emperor told them to do it -- and which ones to use

the erroneously "fixed" translations of the original texts that are full of errors omissions contradictions conflicts obfuscations and other confusions beyond the allegories metaphors and symbolism used to hide the clear meaning.

or maybe some of the writings that got lost and never made it into the bible

or do you have some other "scripture" in mind

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 11, 2012 2:03:50 PM PDT
ken says:
Hi, John

Question one, Can a force be lied to?

At (Matthew 12:22-32) we find Jesus preforming miracles, verse 28 reads that it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, but when his enemy's heard about this they claimed it was by means of Beelzebub, by doing so they were lying against gods holy spirit (his force) and Jesus said that sin wouldn't be forgiven.

Matthew 12:22-32 (NIV)

 22 Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. 23 All the people were astonished and said, "Could this be the Son of David?"
 24 But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons."
 25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27 And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
   29 "Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can plunder his house.
   30 "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 11, 2012 2:04:25 PM PDT
Faithradha says:
Book Worm asks: and what is scripture ???

FR: Excellent question. Is something True Scripture only because enough people say it is? Over and Over again?

Plus....even if something is True Scripture ...written by someone who is FULLY in That Divine "Christ" state themselves.... that is only half the issue. The other half, which most conveniently ignore, is that the one who is READING that Scirpture MUST themselves Be in that Self Same "Christ" State.

True Scripture is more than words on a page... they Transcend the page, they become ALIVE and REVEAL their True Message... from within.

Example: The phrase... ~ I AM The ONE and The Way ~ is understood very differently when it is read from the Grace AWakened, Transcendent State than when it is simply read from the mind's veiled, finite State.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 11, 2012 2:07:54 PM PDT
mrs exp says:
Faithradha,
A good book to read is "The Books the Church Suppressed?"
exp

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 11, 2012 2:08:56 PM PDT
reply to Book worm's post:

not reading any posts over 1 screen view worth
nor looking up references

tell your story more clearly , and succinctly , get to the point and stop.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 11, 2012 2:10:53 PM PDT
Faithradha says:
Whompers says: or maybe some of the writings that got lost and never made it into the bible.

FR: Yup. In fact... The Nag Hamaddi scriptures... discovered buryied in large clay jars, (In Nag Hamaddhi) were hidden ON PURPOSE...so they could not be destroyed by The political arm of "The Church".. who were burning everything in sight which even remotely appeard to disagree with them. Followers of Jesus DIED trying to hide such sacred Scriptures.... from "The Church".
Read Elaine Pagel's book... The Gnostic Gospels... its a fascinating read. Jesus Himself had True Gnosis... there is nothing "heretic" about it.
~ Peace ~

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 11, 2012 2:11:22 PM PDT
reply to John's post:

clearly from the bible
God uses his "Force" aka Holy Spirit to effect actions

so what is your point ?

no archangel should be confused with Christ Jesus the nazarene who is the on of God and is over all angels.

please take your LSD induced LDS stuff to the mormon discussion area

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 11, 2012 2:12:38 PM PDT
reply to Theresa's post:

and you know that how ?

got any proof ?
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Initial post:  Apr 10, 2012
Latest post:  Apr 18, 2012

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