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if you claim that you read the bible then can you answer these simple questions


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In reply to an earlier post on Apr 5, 2012 10:30:17 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 5, 2012 10:30:39 PM PDT
Tinker says:
This is so true. We are in this world but not of it. Sounds strange to those who don't understand why Jesus came, but He suffered so we could be free.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 5, 2012 10:51:09 PM PDT
brunumb says:
whomper : "the bible overall has a very good image of what God is and wants
it is people that take single verses and read way too much into them that is the problem"

So the Bible is useless as the word of God to ALL mankind!

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 5, 2012 10:52:54 PM PDT
brunumb says:
Gr8fl2bHis: "To the contrary, one purpose of worship is to avoid, and/or be delivered from, the indoctrination of the world. Ref. Romans 12"

...and to be reinforced in the indoctrination of the church.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 5, 2012 10:56:54 PM PDT
brunumb says:
Cheri : "....but He suffered so we could be free."

And just how does that work Cheri?

Let's not demean the millions of real people who suffered far more than the alleged Jesus character, and made genuine sacrifices with no promise of popping back in a couple of days, bright and shiny, good as new and ready for a prime seat in heaven.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 6, 2012 12:15:27 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 6, 2012 12:16:42 AM PDT
Gr8fl2bHis says:
You're mistaken, brunumb. You evidently didn't look at Romans 12. This is v. 2:

"And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God."

God's way is not indoctrination. His way is transformation.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 6, 2012 12:18:19 AM PDT
Gr8fl2bHis says:
Cheri has not demeaned anyone. She has shared the truth of what Christ Jesus did for all men. You have free will to accept or reject it. God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 6, 2012 12:41:38 AM PDT
brunumb says:
Transformation to you. Indoctrination to me. And men do it, not God.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 6, 2012 12:45:21 AM PDT
Gr8fl2bHis says:
brunumb: Transformation to you. Indoctrination to me. And men do it, not God.

Gr8fl2bHis: This is your opinion, and you're entitled to it. Those whose lives have been transformed by the Lord know it was He who did it, not them.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 6, 2012 12:49:23 AM PDT
brunumb says:
Gr8 : "She has shared the truth of what Christ Jesus did for all men."

He didn't do anything. Even if it actually happened, it is a hollow gesture given that there was no sacrifice. Real people have given their lives for others with no prospect of coming back, good as new in a couple of days. They are the ones we should admire, not some itinerant magician posing as the son of God and performing feeble party tricks.

If you look at the big picture, God first gives us the disease and then expects gratitude and worship when he offers us the cure.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 6, 2012 12:52:11 AM PDT
brunumb says:
I don't doubt that people have transformed their lives through a belief in Jesus. But people transform their lives using many different sources of motivation. In the end, it all comes from within their selves. No gods necessary.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 6, 2012 12:58:18 AM PDT
Gr8fl2bHis says:
brunumb, you said, "men do it, not God."

Now you've changed the subject. We were speaking of the difference between indoctrination and transformation. When God transforms a man's heart and life, it is not indoctrination.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 6, 2012 12:59:42 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 6, 2012 1:15:39 AM PDT
Gr8fl2bHis says:
brunumb, you can say that you don't believe that Christ Jesus did that, but you cannot say it is a fact that He didn't. And, no, God didn't give us any disease -- quite the contrary. He offered the preventative and He does indeed offer the only eternal cure. But he doesn't "expect" gratitude and worship. He knows that many (Christ Jesus said "most") will reject His love and power.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 6, 2012 1:05:15 AM PDT
brunumb says:
Gr8 : "And, no, God didn't give us any disease -- quite the contrary."

So death and disease were not part of the consequences of the so-called sin committed by Adam and Eve?

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 6, 2012 1:13:40 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 6, 2012 1:14:47 AM PDT
Gr8fl2bHis says:
brunumb, you're putting your own spin on this. Since you're qualifying the passages about this with the phrase "so-called", I can see that there's no point in us discussing this -- you're not going to believe anything I say because you don't believe the Scriptures upon which my statements are based. Our standards of truth vary so widely, the best we can do is to agree to disagree.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 6, 2012 1:16:22 AM PDT
brunumb says:
Gr8 : "He knows that many (Christ Jesus said "most") would reject His love and power."

So this awesome being has contrived a situation where he forces himself to condemn the majority of humanity to an eternity of suffering. And this equates to infinite love how?

Posted on Apr 6, 2012 1:18:31 AM PDT
Gr8fl2bHis says:
Again, you're putting your own spin on this, with statements which are completely opposite to God's Word. Again, I can see that there's no point in us discussing this -- you're not going to believe anything I say because you don't believe the Scriptures upon which my statements are based. Our standards of truth vary so widely, the best we can do is to agree to disagree. There's really no point in endless arguments.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 6, 2012 1:23:06 AM PDT
brunumb says:
Of course I don't believe the scriptures, and you are not doing much in their defence. I include terms like "so-called" and "alleged" to clearly show my point of view. You have not made any argument that successfully accounts for the actions of your God. I suspect that you don't see the point in discussing it because you are unable to actually make a convincing case that would make sense to someone who is not a die hard believer willing to accept anything just because it comes from the Bible.

Posted on Apr 6, 2012 5:58:43 AM PDT
QUESTER says:
whomper says:
If you actually *read* the bible then you had to see that it is full of errors , omissions, contradictions, and other problems unless you are in denial or dumber than a box of rocks.

In 45 minutes today I found these , without looking for any, discrepancies.

Explain them away if you can!

matthew - both criminals dissed Jesus
luke - one did one didnt

luke - Jesus says he commits Himself to Father
others - asks why God has forsaken Him

salvation:
mark says Jesus says just be baptised and believe
acts has other criteria

So can you harmonize all these items or not?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One has to consider that the writings that make up the Bible are all individual accounts written by different people.

The easiest way to harmonize the details you pointed out is to admit that they all could be true recollections of those that wrote, ... and who maybe saw and heard from different perspectives of the same events.

What you witness during any event is influenced by many things ... where you are, who's around, what you doing at the time, your line-of-sight, etc.

Remember that life is a lot more complex than 2-D television or movies. Any of the writers of Bible text could only get a part of what was being said, what was being done, what happened as a result, etc.

That's why we have the multiple witnesses to the same events. So that we can get a fuller picture of what's going on.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 6, 2012 8:09:46 AM PDT
reply to Gr8fl2bHis's post:

true

but that was a NT thing taught by the disciples and apostles

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 6, 2012 8:10:38 AM PDT
reply to Gr8fl2bHis's post:

but how do you get free of the indoctrination with lies and nonsense of the RCc and other false religions

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 6, 2012 8:12:02 AM PDT
reply to brunumb's post:

that is an illogical statement as well as a false twisting of what i said

the bible is useful to ALL mankind
but only the BIG PICTURE IS TRUE
once you start looking at pixels and verses you get noise that misleads you

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 6, 2012 8:14:50 AM PDT
reply to QUESTER's post:

yes

but people will take one version and claim it is true while ignoring the contradicting versions. clearly we just cannot know when two of them disagree on what they say they saw.

that is not a fuller picture, that is a picture that is smudged and then marked over with black crayons.

Posted on Apr 6, 2012 8:29:14 AM PDT
M. Berglee says:
The Bible is a library of different kinds of books. Each book has to be read in its context in order to be understood correctly. The NT authors were not writing historical minute-by-minute, every detail inclusive accounts; they were writing with a purpose in mind. You just can't take one sentence out of context and use to show the truth or lack of truth of the entire Bible. The authors of the Bible were judicious about what they put in their books to make their points about Jesus and God and the relationship of humans to our creator. If one writer put a detail in and the other left it out, it was a conscious decision to write the book in a certain way with a certain context. Plus, the Gospels were written a minimum of 70 years after Jesus' life had ended, when the authors were beginning to understand better what had happened in a historical perspective and they knew more fully the effects of Jesus' life and death in a more profound way. The Gospels are not a play-by-play of what happened. The Bible is true and accurate if read in the way it is intended to be read.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 6, 2012 1:44:50 PM PDT
QUESTER says:
whomper says:
reply to QUESTER's post:

yes

but people will take one version and claim it is true while ignoring the contradicting versions. clearly we just cannot know when two of them disagree on what they say they saw.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Most people understand that each witness brings different pieces to the puzzle ... and that their contributions are not contradictory, but complementary.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 6, 2012 1:53:57 PM PDT
reply to QUESTER's post:

contradictions are not complementary
they are confusing and counterproductive
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Discussion in:  Christianity forum
Participants:  41
Total posts:  463
Initial post:  Mar 28, 2012
Latest post:  May 2, 2012

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