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Customer Discussions > Christianity forum

Does anyone *really* believe in Purgatory?


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Showing 1-25 of 613 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Mar 14, 2012 9:50:42 AM PDT
ABOTA says:
I am speaking specifically of the notion the people enter a tormentuous purging prior to entrance into the Divine Presence. It's further asserted that this torment can be alleviated by the petitions and good works of loved ones on Earth.

Now, consider how it would be if you had a loved one kidnapped and tortured by some foreign government. Wouldn't your every waking hour be consumed with petitioning your own government for the rescue of this loved one?

Yet, with Purgatory, we may have a Mass said or a rosary recited. We may do these things regularly. But we also continue with our daily lives. There are no visits by the Heavenly Red Cross, to report on the well-being of our loved ones. Have they achieved the Beatific Vision? Or is more effort needed on our part?

There are those who say they subscribe to this doctrine, but do they live their daily lives as if they constantly believe it? Or is it an idea which intrudes upon them during prayer time and Sundays only, if at all?

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 10:53:31 AM PDT
Raulito says:
Abota,

If you believe God changes us on a daily basis, and our spiritual transformation by God's grace takes place daily, I don't see how you can get away with the doctrine of Purgatory. Unless you believe you have reached perfection in holiness at the moment of your death.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 10:55:12 AM PDT
Iatric says:
No... Not biblical

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 10:58:16 AM PDT
Raulito says:
Iatric,

You don't believe our holiness and transformation takes place on a daily basis? Or, have you reached perfection in your sinful nature already?

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 11:01:40 AM PDT
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In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 11:02:22 AM PDT
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In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 11:11:54 AM PDT
Raulito says:
whomper,

Scripture says "..every man's work shall be made manifest: for the DAY shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work...if any man's work abide which he had built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned up, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." 1 Corinthians 3:11.

Is this the "whore" of babylon teaching you are talking about?

I have yet to hear a reasonable explanation of this text from any Christian.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 11:15:59 AM PDT
mac says:
I've always proscribed to the idea that the whore of Babylon represented Rome and "her" ways. I've neglected to remember where I read or heard this, but there was a Roman coin with a woman and the seven hills of Rome engraved upon it that was used as a symbol of Rome's downfall by Rome's enemies.

whomper - are you using the whore of Babylon to represent the devil in your posts?

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 11:34:09 AM PDT
ABOTA says:
Did you know that there is also a Purgatory in Judaism? Do you know what it's called? Wait for it --- "Gehenna." Funny how in Christianity, "Gehenna" refers to hell, and in Judaism it refers to Purgatory.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 11:41:27 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 14, 2012 11:43:20 AM PDT
Customer says:
Thank you, Raulito. Well stated comments throughout.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 11:46:52 AM PDT
Raulito says:
Abota,

"Did you know that there is also a Purgatory in Judaism?

Scriptures says "..Put to death in the flesh, he was brought to life in the spirit...in it he also went to preach to the spirits in prison who had been disobedient while God patiently waited in the days of Noah..." 1 Peter 3:19.

It appears the NT writings make reference to some type of semi-purgatory where Christ went after death, to bring salvation to those who had died prior to his death on the cross. It does not appear to be heaven, or hell.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 11:47:37 AM PDT
Iatric says:
That wasn't the question I answered. Sanctification is a lifelong process.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 12:05:18 PM PDT
Raulito says:
Iatric,,

"Sanctification is a lifelong process"

Is that sanctification completed today, tomorrow, or at death?

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 12:18:28 PM PDT
Raul Diaz,

RE: "Is that sanctification completed today, tomorrow, or at death?"

We have been over this far, far too many times for you to continue to ask this question, unless it just has not sunk in, yet.

The answer is: "Yes, yes and yes, but also no, no and no." As in "totem/totem," yet "partim/partim."

We die daily to sin, rise up over and over, and take up our cross and follow. It is already finished in us through the righteousness of Christ, but requires constant faithfulness to complete.

What part of this is so confusing?

Grace and Peace, Little Brother.

S.D.G.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 12:22:55 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 14, 2012 12:23:27 PM PDT
Raulito says:
Bruce,

"it is already finished in us through the righteousness of Christ, but requires constant faithfulness to complete"

Completed at death, or before death? The finalization must be at death. Right?

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 12:24:54 PM PDT
Iatric says:
So then you're now saying that Catholics are not Christian?

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 12:26:32 PM PDT
Kevin Bold says:
Yes, I do. The concept isn't inconsistent with Biblical teachings, and the Church teaches it.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 12:27:06 PM PDT
Kevin Bold says:
Iatric disagrees because Catholics believe it.

Period.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 12:29:04 PM PDT
Kevin Bold says:
That's SUBscribed.

"Babylon" is code for "the Roman Empire".

I think it is most fitting that the capital of the empire that tried to wipe out Christianity is now the city where the visible Church which Christ founded has its earthly headquarters.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 12:30:17 PM PDT
Kevin Bold says:
It's not "confusing", Bruce.

You're just wrong.

Grapes and Peas,
A.E.F.C.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 12:33:44 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 14, 2012 12:35:45 PM PDT
Raul Diaz,

See previous answer.

Yes...and...no.

And, please, do not insult everyone by continuing to pretend you do not understand the answer. That is Mr. Bold's personal purview...

Grace and Peace, Little Brother.

S.D.G.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 12:37:51 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 14, 2012 12:41:23 PM PDT
Raulito says:
Bruce,

"Yes...and...no"

That wasn't so bad, was it Bruce?

Since our sinful nature continues to war against us, our daily sanctification continues, its a lifelong process. Perfected in Christ when we die.

You seem to open the possibility that our sanctification is somehow finalized to perfection when we die. Unless you assume our sanctification is finalized to perfection before we die.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 12:52:55 PM PDT
Raul Diaz,

RE: "Perfected in Christ when we die."

And perfected in Christ, right now, in this instant.

Both, and neither.

You still seem a bit confused...

Grace and Peace, Little Brother.

S.D.G.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 1:09:17 PM PDT
Iatric says:
Wrong again, but what else is new. How can you rectify the fact that I do agree with Catholics when they are right on a topic, and disagree when they are wrong. By your misconception, I should never be agreeing. Want to try again?

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 2:02:15 PM PDT
Raulito says:
Bruce,

"And perfected in Christ, right now, in this instant"

If you are perfected in Christ right now, why the need to further perfection in Christ tomorrow?

As you said, "but requires constant faithfulness to complete..."

Complete what is already complete?
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This discussion

Discussion in:  Christianity forum
Participants:  42
Total posts:  613
Initial post:  Mar 14, 2012
Latest post:  Apr 4, 2012

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