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Bill O'riley Calls Christianity a philosohy


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Initial post: Nov 28, 2012 6:09:53 PM PST
M. Galishoff says:
I thought I heard it all. It happened tonight.

Setting: I have a bad cold. I was eating chicken soup and flipped on FOX and the factor was on. I was so tired today I took a nap and slept soundly for hours. My throat and ears hurt. I needed Chicken soup. I make good old Jewish Chicken Soup based upon a family recipe but had to settle for generic Campbell. Who says Generics are just as good?

Anyway - I am watching Mr O debate with a fellow who is head of the American Atheist Society who I must say held his own and won this argument. He won because Mr. O lost it, resorted to ad hominum attacks and made the crazy claim that Christianity is a philosophy and not a religion.

Mr O argued that as Christianity was a philosophy and not a religion, the separation of Church and State does not apply to Christmas displays. He did, however, clearly state that individual Christian churches -- i. e. the RCC and Methodists were religions and fall under the separation.

Oh, my friends this is sad and Mr. O should know better. Faith, acceptance and trust in Christ is the foundation and essence of being a Christian. Worship of God as Triune upon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles is the Christian Church and religion. Yea, there are many different variants (Churches, denominations etc) but few if any are Christless.

Christianity is nit a worldview or a philosophy. If viewed as such, then it Guts our Lord out of the Gospel.

Mr O is wrong, IMO. I think he is working a way around the secularists who are arguing against non-private displays of Christmas expression. I think this is an unacceptable approach. Also, Mr O bullied the man which is not a very good and effective way to win an argument.

People are free not to be Christians and we must accept the Christian Gospel is offensive to many. But we cannot allow the many to override our joy and expression of our joy. If the country decides to to move more secular, let us show our joy and love even more.

After all, it is not the trappings and trees that edify. Nay, it is the promised birth of the Messiah who will move ever to the cross to die and be raised, doing this out of God's love for us. Society must take responsibility before God for their actions. Likewise we.

Mr O, being a stalwart is proclaiming the Gospel boldly and without compromise. You are on the wrong side here and in the long-run what you thought as a practical legal and cleaver way of preserving a tree and display undermines our true proclamation.

Any CONSTRUCTIVE AND THOUGHTFUL comments?

Posted on Nov 28, 2012 6:47:08 PM PST
I too think O'Reilly was wrong. Your reasons were sensible, and others might be possible as well.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012 10:00:14 PM PST
DocMMV says:
I didn't see it, but I agree in that "philosophy" is love of wisdom. There is no greater wisdom than Christianity and those of us who adhere to it, love it dearly. Now, that is not to say that Christianity contains MUCH MORE than mere philosophy, and we love that as well, but it certainly does contain a world view and a community view. I have to think that qualifies as a philosophy.
As for separation of Church and State, if I understand your post, then BO'R was correct: Christianity is not considered a "religion" under the First Amendment. The denominations of Christianity were considered "religions". That's why we do not have an official denomination in America the way England did. (and btw the way the original states also did). The only difference is that the people in the age of our founding rarely used the word "denomination" to describe their particular branch of the Christian tree; they used "religion" to describe their branch.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012 10:14:39 PM PST
M. Simonson says:
"Mr O argued that as Christianity was a philosophy and not a religion"

Bill has done this before but I never heard him say "not a religion" in the past. He has tried to make a point along the lines that Christianity can be taken as a philosophy with ideas like love your neighbor.

Perhaps Mr Bill got this idea from George W Bush who when asked in a debate who his favorite philosopher was respond with Christ. And when we want a really clear view on things we all look up quotes from George W Bush.

Posted on Nov 28, 2012 10:21:20 PM PST
As depicted in the Gospels, Jesus does not really have the demeanor of a philosopher.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 2:29:51 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 29, 2012 2:30:13 AM PST
TheWindMoves says:
Brownie, you're doing a heckuva job.

Posted on Nov 29, 2012 4:40:13 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 29, 2012 4:40:57 AM PST
Brian Curtis says:
Sounds like Mr.O'Reilly has realized that the First Amendment is getting in the way of his establishing Christianity as an official state religion, so he's trying to redefine it as 'not a religion.'

Kinda like how the religious nuts tried to define creationism as 'science' to sneak it into school science classes. Didn't work then, won't work now.

That pesky ol' Constitution is really posing a problem for pathetic zealots like O'Reilly, isn't it? GOOD.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 6:17:31 AM PST
M. Galishoff says:
Interesting Brian. I see it as an unacceptable position from a faith perspective.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 6:46:27 AM PST
Vicki says:
Dear MG,

I can see calling Christianity a philosophy, if one considers "philosophy" to mean a worldview that informs one's way of life. But I don't see O'Reilly's reasoning in regards to Christianity not being a religion.

I agree that if the country decides to go secular, we continue with our celebration of Jesus regardless, just perhaps in different ways than we have before.

Posted on Nov 29, 2012 6:47:39 AM PST
Cliff Sedge says:
Didn't Dubya claim Jesus as his fav philosopher?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 6:56:12 AM PST
M. Galishoff says:
Vicki

I understand but Christianity is not a worldview - it is an exclusive faith that has Christ as its foundation. This is what we are trying to preserve in the church. The worldview idea is a result of liberalism and IMO is pernicious and is non-scriptural.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 7:12:55 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 29, 2012 7:13:45 AM PST
Vicki says:
Dear MG,

But everyone has a worldview- a set of presuppositions or working hypotheses that effects the way they see, evaluate, and integrate.
Christ changed my worldview profoundly, when I answered God's call and accepted Jesus as my Savior and Lord and I was regenerated.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 7:33:17 AM PST
M. Galishoff says:
Vicki

Yes you do have a worldview and it has been informed by Christ but that is not the essence of Christianity and people (believers and non-believers) should not be confused. Looking at Christianity as a worldview rather than faith in Christ has resulted in many churches being secular and Christless. It is a major issue in evangelical circles these days. It is subtle.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 10:24:35 AM PST
Astrocat says:
Vicki, "if the country decides to go secular"? We are a secular country. Notwithstanding the words on our money or in the Pledge of Allegiance, the Constitution clearly indicates that we are not under any religious dictums, nor are we a "Christian" nation. And you have not been, nor will you be, deprived of your rights to worship as you please, even under a secular flag, as long as you harm no one.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 10:26:40 AM PST
Astrocat says:
M., of course Christianity is a "worldview". So is Islam, and Judaism, and Buddhism and all the rest. So is, Socialism, so is Democracy, so is Communism, so is Atheism, and so on. Christianity is not any more special than any of these world views.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 10:33:59 AM PST
Vicki says:
Dear MG,

I agree that the essence of Christianity is Christ.

I had not realized that there were churches who had a Christian worldview, but had lost their faith in Christ. The circumstances under which I come across the term "worldview" has been in my reading of Christian apologetics. They definitely did not promote supplanting our faith in Christ with a worldview.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 10:38:11 AM PST
Astrocat says:
Vicki, et.al., here's a definition of world view. How does it not, for some of you, fit Christianity?

world·view (wûrldvy)

1. The overall perspective from which one sees and interprets the world.
2. A collection of beliefs about life and the universe held by an individual or a group.
[Translation of German Weltanschauung.]

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 11:21:44 AM PST
Vicki says:
Dear Nancy,

You said :"nor are we a "Christian" nation."

I agree that our U.S. culture has now entered into the post-Christian era that Western Europe moved into before us. That is not to say that our government was Christian, but Christianity was the major influence on our culture at one time. Although Christianity is still the majority religion in the U.S., it no longer influences our culture the way it used to do. That is what I mean by "going secular".

I am wondering if you understand the little slip that you made- in saying "freedom of worship", instead of "freedom of religion". You do realize that freedom of worship is the more restrictive term, don't you?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 11:29:16 AM PST
Vicki says:
Dear Nancy,

I agree with this standard definition of "worldview".

You asked :"How does it not, for some of you, fit Christianity?"

I think it fits, if by Christian worldview, one considers it the same as having "the mind of Christ" (at least that is our goal).

Posted on Nov 29, 2012 11:37:09 AM PST
G. Howard says:
I heard him talk to Bill Maher once about Christianity, I couldn't believe how inept he was with handling straight forward questions from Maher. He basically told him he was a NT Christian, and it all boiled down to faith in Jesus because he dismissed everything as allegory.

After listening to him talk with Maher, I could see why he claims it's a philosophy because he's very ignorant on the topic. Maher ate his lunch, and seemed taken back by O'rileys' lack of intelligable responses to his basic questions.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 12:11:42 PM PST
M. Galishoff says:
Nancy

Christianity can inform one's worldview. A worldview cannot be a a religion such as Christianity which lays exclusive claims that it does and provides real life through faith. Reducing it to one of many worldviews distorts and guts the true essence of Christianity.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 12:14:00 PM PST
M. Galishoff says:
Vicki

Yes, it has been going on for a long time. People like the teachings of Christ and come to believe them but do not have saving faith nor believe all the Scripture as authoritative. They see Christianity as one of many worldviews but it is not. It is exclusive in its claims and essence. Joining a church that just teaches Jesus' moral teachings is a false church - it does not preach the Gospel and who can be saved?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 1:02:19 PM PST
O'Reilly!

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 29, 2012 1:51:49 PM PST
James Munn says:
I agree with Mr. O a lot, but I didn't agree with his argument either. It is my opinion that Christianity should be considered a religion so that non-Christians can understand the term. Yet those within Christianity would not call it a religion because within Christian circles it is taught that Christ taught his disciples that nobody is good enough to earn their way into heaven by doing good deeds or works, nobody which most if not all other "religions" teach. Doing works to please God in hopes He will let you in to paradise or heaven is what Christians commonly refer to as a religion and sometimes think non-Christians understand that.

Posted on Nov 29, 2012 6:12:29 PM PST
M. Simonson says:
He did it again tonight. Bill caught some flack for this and people stated he shouldn't have said that.
Telling O'Reilly not to do something is like telling little kids not to put beans in their nose.
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Discussion in:  Christianity forum
Participants:  19
Total posts:  40
Initial post:  Nov 28, 2012
Latest post:  Dec 2, 2012

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