Customer Discussions > Christianity forum

The Teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses. How do they compare with the Bible?

Sort: Oldest first | Newest first
Showing 1-25 of 2854 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Mar 21, 2011 8:07:27 PM PDT
I start this discussion at the request of several people who were offended by the hostile and conbative title for the "other" JW thread that was started a few days ago.

I would not expect that everybody will agree with JW theology, but I believe that a respectful interchange of ideas would be a positive thing.

I've done some of my best learning in talking with others who have views different from mine. And I'd like to think that I've been able to teach them some things in the process.

I would suggest that the discussion focus on what the Bible says, rather than anecdotes about what someone supposedly said or did. The Bible is the Word of God and is the final word on what is true, or not.

Posted on Mar 21, 2011 10:26:33 PM PDT
Jesus stated an important principle at John 13:16:

"Most assuredly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master, nor is he who is sent greater he who sent him."

(All scripture citations are from the NKJV)

The context shows that Jesus was trying to impress upon the minds of the apostles that they, as sent-forth ones, should show humility, realizing that they were not as great as the one who sent them, Jesus.
Yet, Jesus himself had been sent forth. He became a servant of the One who had sent him - God. He sought to fulfill the will of that One. This thought is repeated dozens of times in the Scriptures.

Matthew 12:18 `Behold! My Servant whom I have chosen, My Beloved in whom My soul is well pleased! I will put My Spirit upon Him, and HE will declare justice to the Gentiles."

Mark 9:37 "Whoever receives one of these little children in My name receives Me, and whoever receives Me, receives not Me, but Him who sent Me."

Luke 4:43 "I must preach the kingdom of God to the other cities also, because for this purpose, I was also sent."

Luke 9:48 "Whoever receives this little child in My name receives Me; and whoever receives Me receives Him who sent Me."

Luke 10:16 He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me."

John 3:17 "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved."

John 3:34 "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure."

John 4:34 "Jesus said to them, `My food is to do the will of Him who sent me, and to finish His work.'"

John 5:24 "He who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."

John 5:30 "I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me."

John 6:37-40 "All that the Father give Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. For I have come down from Heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up in the last day."

John 7:16, 18 "Jesus answered them and said, `My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me . . .He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him.'"

John 7:28, 29 "Them Jesus cried out, as he taught in the temple, saying, `You both know Me, and you know where I am from; and I have not come of Myself, but He who sent Me is true, whom you do not know. But I know Him, for I am from Him, and He sent Me.'"

John 7:33 "Then Jesus said to them, `I shall be with you a little while longer, and them I go to Him who sent me,'"

John 8:16, 18 "And yet if I do judge, My judgment is true, for I am not alone, but I am with the Father who sent me. . . I am one who bears witness of Myself, and the Father who sent Me bears witness of me."

John 8:26, 27 "'He who sent Me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I heard from Him.' They did not understand that He spoke to them of the Father."

John 8:42 "Jesus said to them, `If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded fort and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.'"

John 9:4 "I must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can work."

John 12:44, 45 "Then Jesus cried out and said, `He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me. And he who sees Me sees Him who sent me.'"

John 13:20 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who receives whomever I send receives Me; and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me."

John 16:5 "But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, `Where are you going?'"

John 16:28 "I came forth from the Father and have come into the world, Again I leave the world and go to the Father."

John 17:18 "As You have sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world."

John 17:25 "O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You have sent Me."

John 20:21 "So Jesus said to them again, Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you."

Romans 8:3 "For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin."

1 John 4: 9, 10 "In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent us His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins."

14"And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world."

The Parable of the Vinedressers

Matthew 21:33-39 "Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country.
Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit.
And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another.
Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them.
Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, `They will respect my son.'
But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, `this is the heir, Come on, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.
So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.
Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?"

In this parable, the owner of the vineyard represents God. His servants that he sent to receive its fruit are the prophets, and the son that He sent represents Jesus.

Posted on Mar 21, 2011 10:28:17 PM PDT
Things Jesus Received from the Father

If Jesus was God, he would have been the author of all of his teachings. Nothing would have to be given to him since he would already possess all things, including full authority in heaven and on earth. What does the Bible teach about Jesus in these matters?

1. Jesus received his teaching from the Father (Scripture citations are from the NKJV)

John 5:19, 20 Then Jesus answered and said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father do; For whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel."

John 5:30 I can by Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and my judgment is righteous, because I do not seek my own will but the will of the Father who sent me.

John 7:16-18 Jesus answered them and said, "My doctrine is not mine buy his who sent me. If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God, or whether I speak on my own authority. He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him."

John 8:28, 29 Then Jesus said to them, "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things. And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left me alone, for I always do those things that please Him."

John 8:38 "I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with your father."

John 8:40 "But now you seek to kill me, a Man who has told you the truth which I have heard from God."

John 12:49, 50 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father Who sent me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."

John 14:10 "The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works."

John 14:24 "The word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent me."

John 15:15 "For all things which I have heard from My Father I have made known to you."

John 17:8 "For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that you sent Me."

John 17:14 "I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world."

Revelation 1:1 A revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants - things which must shortly take place.


2. Jesus Was Given His Authority by the Father

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me on heaven and on earth."

Mark 2:10 "But that you may know that the Son of Man has power (footnote: `authority') on earth to forgive sins" - He said to the paralytic, "I say to you, arise, take your bed, and go to your house."

John 5:26, 27 "For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of Man."

John 17:2 :"As you have given him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him."

Philip[pians 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name.

Hebrews 1:4 Having become so much better than the angels, as he has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they

1 Peter 3:22 [Jesus Christ] who has gone into heaven, and is at the right hand of God, angel and authorities, and powers have been made subject to him


3. He Received Men, the Congregation from the Father

John 10:27-29 "My sheep know My voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of my Father's hand."

John 17:6 "I have manifested your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You have given them to Me. They have kept Your word."

John 17:9 "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for thy are Yours."

John 17:12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I kept."

John 17:24 "Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world."


4. He Received Glory from the Father

John 17:22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they are one just as We are one."

2 Peter 1:17 For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased."

Posted on Mar 21, 2011 10:29:00 PM PDT
5. Jesus received all things from the Father

Matthew 11:27 "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him."

Luke 10:22 "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him."

John 3:35 "The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand."

John 13:3 "Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He had come from God and was going to God."

John 17:7 "Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You."

Ephesians 1:22 "And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church."

Hebrews 1:2 "[God] has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, Whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world."

Posted on Mar 21, 2011 10:30:28 PM PDT
The God of Jesus Christ

Perhaps the most powerful evidence that Jesus is not the Almighty God is the fact that he has a God. We are often reminded of this in Scripture, both in the words of Jesus himself, both while on earth as a man and after his return to heaven; and in the words of the Apostles Peter and Paul.
The fourteen times this occurs in the "New Testament" are listed in the nine verses below: (Scripture citations are all from the KJV)

Matthew 27:46 "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?, that is to say, MY GOD, MY GOD, why hast thou forsaken me?"

Mark 15:34 "And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? Which is, being interpreted, MY GOD, MY GOD, why hast thou forsaken me?

John 20:17 "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to MY GOD, and to your God."

2 Corinthians 11:31 "The GOD AND FATHER OF OUR LORD, Jesus Christ, which is blessed forevermore, knoweth that I lie not."

Ephesians 1:2, 3 "Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the GOD AND FATHER OF OUR LORD Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ."

Ephesians 1:17 "That the GOD OF OUR LORD JESUS Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him."

Hebrews 1:9 "Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore GOD, EVEN THY GOD, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."

1 Peter 1:1 "Blessed be the GOD AND FATHER OF OUR LORD Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead."

Revelation 3:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of MY GOD, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of MY GOD, and the name of the city of MY GOD, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from MY GOD."

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 22, 2011 4:31:24 AM PDT
They don't compare to the Bible's teachings.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 22, 2011 4:33:30 AM PDT
Jesus is God, Michael. He is God the Son.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 22, 2011 7:37:01 AM PDT
The 40 Days of Lenten Lily says:
They don't compare to the Bible's teachings.

Could you be more specific?

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 22, 2011 7:51:40 AM PDT
The 40 Days of Lenten Lily says:
Jesus is God, Michael. He is God the Son.

No one in the Bible ever referred to Jesus as "God the Son." I suspect that this was a title that came into use in the late third or early fourth century. It's really just non-biblical terminology.

I have difficulty processing the claim that Jesus is both God and the Son of God.

Would you be willing to explain how this is possible?

It seems to me that, by definition, the word, 'son' must necessarily imply derivation. A man "begets" a son (but nowhere in the Bible does a woman beget a son), which is a word that is connected with reproduction or procreation. Jesus is God's "only-begotten son," and this phrase normally describes an only child. Justin Martyr actually called Jesus "God's only child."

Can you think of any examples where a son was the same age as his father?

Posted on Mar 22, 2011 8:03:01 AM PDT
There are 14 passages in the Bible where Jesus received "worship" - according to most translations of the Bible.

The Greek word translated as 'worship', (proskuneo) however, may also describe the act of doing obeisance, which is not an act of worship, but is rather an gesture of homage and respect.

Most folks are unaware that this was common practice in Bible times to bow down before others. In fact, the Bible records dozens of examples of this being done. I will share a list a passages from the Greek Septuagint Version where people bowed down to other people in an act of obeisance. In each case, the word, proskuneo occurs in the text.

Here's the list:

Proskuneo to people (Words in italics are translated from proskuneo)

Genesis 23:7, 12 "And Abraam (Abraham) rose up and did obeisance to the people of the land, to the sons of Chet." "And Abraam did obeisance before the people of the land."

27:29 "And let nations serve thee, and princes bow down to thee, and be thou lord of thy brother, and the sons of thy father shall do thee reverence." (Spoken to Jacob)

33:3, 6, 7 "But he [Jacob] advanced himself before them, and did reverence to the ground seven times, until he drew near his brother.... And the maid-servants and their children drew near and did reverence. And Lea and her children drew near and did reverence; and after this drew near Rachel and Joseph, and did reverence."

37:7 "My sheaf stood up and was erected, and your sheaves turned round and did obeisance to my sheaf."

37:9, 10 "I have dreamed another dream: as it were the sun, and the moon, and the eleven stars did me reverence. And his father rebuked him.... shall indeed both I and thy mother and thy brethren come and bow before thee to the earth?"

42:6 "And the brethren of Joseph, having come, did reverence to him, bowing with the face to the ground."

43:26, 28 "And Joseph entered into the house.... and they did him reverence with their face to the ground.... And they bowed, and did him reverence."

47:31 "And Israel did reverence [to Joseph] leaning on the top of his staff."

48:12 And Joseph brought them [his children] out from between his knees, and they did reverence to him [Israel], with their face to the ground."

49:8 "Juda, thy brethren have praised thee.... thy father's sons shall do thee reverence."

Exodus 18:7 "And Moses went forth to meet his father-in-law, and did him reverence, and kissed him.

Ruth 2:10 "And she [Ruth] fell upon her face and did reverence to the ground, and said to him [Boaz] How is it that I have found grace in thine eyes?"

1 Samuel 2:36 "...he that survives in thy house, shall come and do obeisance before him [probably Samuel] for a little piece of silver."

20:41 "And when the lad went in, then David arose from the argab, and fell upon his face, and did obeisance to him three times."

24:9 "David cried after Saul, saying, `My lord, O king! and Saul looked behind him, and David bowed with his face to the ground, and did obeisance to him."

25:23 "And Abigaia (Abagail) .... fell before David on her face, and did obeisance to him, bowing to the ground."

25:41 "And she arose, and did reverence with her face to the earth, and said [to David], Behold, thy servant is for an handmaiden to wash the feet of thy servants."

28:14 "And Saul knew that this was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the earth, and did obeisance to him.

2 Samuel 1:2; ".... he went in to David, that he fell upon the earth, and did obeisance to him."

9:6, 8 "And Memphibosthe.... comes to King David, and he fell upon his face and did obeisance to him.... And Memphibosthe did obeisance."

14:22 "And Joab fell on his face to the ground, and did obeisance to the king."

14:33 "And Joab went in to the king, and did him obeisance, and fell upon his face to the ground."

15:5 "... when a man came near to do him {Absalom) obeisance, that he stretched out his hand, and took hold of him, and kissed him."

16:4 "And Siba (Sheba) did obeisance and said, `My lord, O king, let me find grace in thine eyes.' "

18:21 "And Chusi (or the `Cushite") did obeisance to Joab."

18:28 "And Achimaas cried out and said to the King, `Peace'. And he did obeisance to the king with his face to the ground."

24:20 "... and Orna went forth and did obeisance to the king with his face to the earth."

III Kings 1:16 "And Bersabee (Bathsheba) bowed, and did obeisance to the king."

1:23 "Behold, Nathan the prophet is here; and he came into the king's presence, and did obeisance to the king with his face to the ground."

1:31 "And Bersabee bowed with her face to the ground, and did obeisance to the king."

1:53 "And king Solomon sent, and they brought him away from the altar, and he [Adonias] went in and did obeisance to king Solomon."

2:13 "And Adonias the son of Aggith came in to Bersabee the mother of Solomon, and did obeisance to her."

2 Kings 2:15 "The spirit of Eliu (Elijah) has rested upon Elisaie (Elisha). And they came to meet him, and did obeisance to him to the ground."

4:37 "And the woman went in, and fell at his (Elisha's) feet, and did obeisance bowing to the ground."

1 Chronicles 21:21 "and Orna came forth from the threshing floor, and did obeisance to David, with his face to the ground."

29:20 "And all the congregation blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and they bowed the knee and worshipped the Lord, and did obeisance to the king." (In this passage, the word proskuneo occurs just once, but it means both worship and obeisance in the context)

2 Kings 5:18 "When my master goes into the house of Remman to worship there, and he shall lean on my hand, and I shall bow down in the house of Remman when he bows down in the house of Remman." (This passage is particularly interesting because it involves a Hebrew slave who serves a pagan master. He seeks forgiveness because he has to support his feeble master as he bows (proskuneo) to Remman. In doing so, he has to bow (proskuneo) himself. In the case of the master, the bowing is worship, while for the servant, it is only a movement of the body without any thought of worship.)

2 Chronicles 24:17 "And it came to pass.... that the princes of Juda went in and did obeisance to the king."

Esther 3:2, 5 "Artaxerxes highly honored Aman.... and all in the palace did him obeisance.... but Mardochaeus (Mordecai) did not do him obeisance.... and when Aman understood that mardochaeus did not obeisance to him, he was greatly enraged."

Daniel 2:46 Then king Nabuchodonosor fell upon his face and worshipped Daniel, and gave orders to offer him gifts and incense."

Isaiah 45:14 "And they shall follow after thee, bound in fetters, and shall pass over to thee, and shall do obeisance to thee." (Messianic prophecy)

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 22, 2011 8:15:24 AM PDT
Mike the Couch

I am Taken aback...We finally agree on something So Important and Esoteric
in Nature and you say Nothing..LOL

The SEED Mike the SEED how wonderfull we Agree!!

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 22, 2011 10:21:53 AM PDT
Craig says:
Thanks Michael, I'll post here when I have something intelligent. :-) I don't know if I can keep up with you though, I'll try.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 22, 2011 10:23:07 AM PDT
Craig says:
Can you back that up? I am not disagreeing with you but to just throw statements out there is meaningless.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 22, 2011 10:26:07 AM PDT
Thanks, Craig.

I don't know if I can keep up either. I'm buried under a mountain of work right now and will be going day and night to get it all done.

I'm tired, but it beats having no work.
Been there Done that!

Posted on Mar 22, 2011 10:33:11 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 22, 2011 10:35:55 AM PDT
One of the big differences between mainstream Christian teachings and JWs is that JWs believe that the reward for most people will be earthly, rather than heavenly. Most folks assume that the earth is merely a proving ground so that the righteous can find God's favor and be taken to populate heaven.

JWs believe that the Bible is all about how God will restore mankind to his favor and restore the paradise that was lost at the Garden of Eden.

Is this scriptural or not?

In his Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said, "Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth." Matt 5:5

Was Jesus right or wrong?

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 22, 2011 11:17:27 AM PDT
Craig says:
Jesus speaking is Mark 13:31 NKJV
"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away."

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 22, 2011 12:08:14 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 22, 2011 12:09:18 PM PDT
Michael, you stated " I have difficulty processing the claim that Jesus is both God and the Son of God."

You might look at John 1:1-18.

I will quote just a few of the most relevant verses: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (v1)

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only-begotten Son from the Father." (v14)

"No one has ever seen God; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known. (v19)

Several times in Sacred Scripture - Jesus will say things like "I and the Father are one" or "if you have seen me, you have seen the Father", or "Before Abraham was, I am."

I think the difficuty that you are having is that most Christians believe in a Trinitarian God (3 persons, 1 God) - it is a difficult mystery - but nevertheless it has been the consistent belief since the beginning of the Church in the New Testament. Check out the Apostle's Creed. Church sects have come and gone and come up with all sorts of other definitions of who they think God is - or Jesus is - but I think one should stay with that which has been from the beginning.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 22, 2011 1:30:30 PM PDT
Katydid says:
I thought that scripture was comparable to saying that it is more likely for the sun to not rise tomorrow than for you to not keep a promise. (for lack of a better illustration) - It is a sure thing that what you say will be.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 22, 2011 2:58:36 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 22, 2011 5:17:20 PM PDT
Here's a big issue. J.W. believe Michael, an angel, was Christ.

This is straight from their Web Site>

What Does the Bible Really Teach?

Who Is Michael the Archangel?

THE spirit creature called Michael is not mentioned often in the Bible. However, when he is referred to, he is in action. In the book of Daniel, Michael is battling wicked angels; in the letter of Jude, he is disputing with Satan; and in Revelation, he is waging war with the Devil and his demons. By defending Jehovah's rulership and fighting God's enemies, Michael lives up to the meaning of his name-"Who Is Like God?" But who is Michael?

At times, individuals are known by more than one name. For example, the patriarch Jacob is also known as Israel, and the apostle Peter, as Simon. (Genesis 49:1, 2; Matthew 10:2) Likewise, the Bible indicates that Michael is another name for Jesus Christ, before and after his life on earth. Let us consider Scriptural reasons for drawing that conclusion.

Archangel. God's Word refers to Michael "the archangel." (Jude 9) This term means "chief angel." Notice that Michael is called the archangel. This suggests that there is only one such angel. In fact, the term "archangel" occurs in the Bible only in the singular, never in the plural. Moreover, Jesus is linked with the office of archangel. Regarding the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 states: "The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice." Thus the voice of Jesus is described as being that of an archangel. This scripture therefore suggests that Jesus himself is the archangel Michael.

Army Leader. The Bible states that "Michael and his angels battled with the dragon . . . and its angels." (Revelation 12:7) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the Leader of an army of faithful angels. (Revelation 19:14-16) And the apostle Paul specifically mentions "the Lord Jesus" and "his powerful angels." (2 Thessalonians 1:7; Matthew 16:27; 24:31; 1 Peter 3:22) So the Bible speaks of both Michael and "his angels" and Jesus and "his angels." (Matthew 13:41) Since God's Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven-one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus-it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.*


* More information showing that the name Michael applies to God's Son is found in Volume 2, pages 393-4, of Insight on the Scriptures, published by Jehovah's Witnesses.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 22, 2011 3:04:27 PM PDT
Raulito says:

Jesus said to his church "Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven." Luke 6;23. Jesus says our reward will be great in heaven, while Jehovah Witnesses say their reward will be great on earth. LoL!

Who do we believe?

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 22, 2011 3:08:56 PM PDT
mrs exp says:
All he's posted so far is Bible verses how can they not compare with the Bible teachings?

Posted on Mar 22, 2011 3:14:49 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 22, 2011 5:15:48 PM PDT
Elohim ("the Mighty One's") is introduced in Gen 1:1 and translated as God.

In Gen. 2:4 one of the "mighty ones" a "mighty one" is introduced as YHWH Elohim, and translated as "LORD God".

Is not YHWH Elohim, one of the "members" of Elohim, " who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" the God being who took on roll of being Jesus Christ???

The Deity of Jesus Christ from the Scriptures

Characteristic God or Yahweh (YHVH) and Jesus Christ

Who is omnipotent (all powerful)? 1 Chronicles 29:11 (YHVH) Philippians 3:20-21
Who is omniscient (all knowing)? 1 John 3:20 Colossians 2:2-3
Who is omnipresent (present everywhere)? Proverbs 15:3 (YHVH) 2 Corinthians 2:14
Who is Lord of Sabbath? Genesis 2:3 Matthew 12:8
Who is the great "I am?" Exodus 3:14 (YHVH) John 8:58
Who is the only creator? Isaiah 44:24 (YHVH) John 1:3
Who is the only savior? Isaiah 43:11, 45:21 (YHVH) Acts 4:12
Who will judge mankind? Isaiah 3:13, 14 (YHVH) 2 Corinthians 5:10
Who will judge between the sheep and goats? Ezekiel 34:17 (YHVH) Matthew 25:31-33
Who sent the prophets? Jeremiah 7:25 (YHVH) Matthew 23:34
Who resurrected Jesus? Acts 4:10 (YHVH) John 10:17-18
Who is "coming in glory?" Isaiah 40:5 (YHVH) Matthew 24:30
Who is our Father? Isaiah 63:16 (YHVH) Isaiah 9:6
Who is the "first and last?" Isaiah 44:6 (YHVH) Revelation 1:17
Who is Rock of salvation? 2 Samuel 22:32 (YHVH) 1 Corinthians 10:4
Who is Stone of stumbling? Isaiah 8:13-15 (YHVH) 1 Peter 2:8
"One crying in the wilderness" came to prepare a way for whom? Isaiah 40:3 (YHVH) Matthew 3:3
Who is eternal? Genesis 21:33 (YHVH) Micah 5:2
Who is the fountain of living waters? Jeremiah 17:13 (YHVH) John 4:10-14
Who resurrects the dead? Acts 26:8 John 6:40
Who gives rewards to man? Isaiah 40:10 (YHVH) Matthew 16:27
Who has all authority and power? 1 Chronicles 29:11 (YHVH) Matthew 28:18
Who gives power and authority to man? Psalm 68:35 Luke 9:1
Who forgives sin? 2 Chronicles 7:14 (YHVH) Matthew 9:6
Who sent the Holy Spirit? John 14:16 John 16:7
Who has the greatest name? Nehemiah 9:5 (YHVH) Philippians 2:9
Whom are we to worship? Exodus 34:14 (YHVH) Revelation 5:12-13
Who is the good Shepherd? Genesis 48:15 John 10:14
Who searches for the lost sheep of Israel? Ezekiel 34:11 (YHVH) Matthew 15:24
Who is "Lord of Lords?" Deuteronomy 10:17 (YHVH) Revelation 17:14
To whom shall every knee bow? Isaiah 45:22-23 (YHVH) Philippians 2:10
Who is the righteous branch of David? Jeremiah 23:5-6 (YHVH) Jeremiah 33:15
Who alone is Holy? 1 Samuel 2:2 (YHVH) Acts 3:14
Whose blood cleanses us? Acts 20:28 1 John 1:7
The world was created for whom? Proverbs 16:4 (YHVH) Colossians 1:16
Who is above all? Nehemiah 9:6 (YHVH) Romans 9:5
Who is forever the same? Psalms 102:24-27 Hebrews 1:8-12
Who is our light? Psalm 27:1 (YHVH) John 8:12
Who is the way or path? Psalms 16:11 (YHVH) John 14:6
Who is in charge of the angels? Psalms 103:20 (YHVH) 2 Thesselonians 1:7
Who gives us rest? Exodus 33:14 (YHVH) Matthew 11:28
Who gives eternal life? Proverbs 19:23 (YHVH) John 3:36
We are the bride of whom? Isaiah 54:5 (YHVH) 2 Corinthians 11:2
Who tests the heart and mind? Jeremiah 17:10 (YHVH) Revelation 2:23

Bible Verses Stating Jesus is God

Statement Verse

Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel, which translated means, "God with us." Matthew 1:23
And fear gripped them all, and they began glorifying God, saying, "A great prophet has arisen among us!" and, "God has visited His people!" Luke 7:16
In the beginning was the Word...and the Word was God. John 1:1
No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. John 1:18
He [Jesus]... was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. John 5:18
I and the Father are one. John 10:30
The Jews answered Him [Jesus], "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." John 10:33
You call Me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for so I am. John 13:13
Jesus said to him, "...He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, `Show us the Father?'" John 14:9
And now, glorify Thou Me together with Thyself, Father, with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was. John 17:5
Thomas answered and said to Him [Jesus], "My Lord and my God!" John 20:28
...the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 2 Corinthians 4:4
...Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, Philippians 2:6 Christ. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, Colossians 2:9
God was manifest in the flesh... 1 Timothy 3:16
...our Lord Jesus Christ, which He will bring about at the proper time-- He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords; 1 Timothy 6:15 these last days has spoken to us in His Son...And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature... Hebrews 1:2-3
But of the Son He says, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever... Hebrews 1:8
...the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus; Titus 2:13
Simon Peter ... by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: 2 Peter 1:1
And on His robe and on His thigh He [Jesus] has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." Revelation 19:16

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 22, 2011 6:51:02 PM PDT
Michael, there is God the Father, God the Son, Jesus (referred to in the Bible as the Son of God by Simon Peter).

Matthew 16:13-17 (King James Version)

13When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

14And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 22, 2011 6:54:19 PM PDT
Craig, when we describe the Trinity, we say God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Jesus is referred to as the Son of God by Simon Peter who received the revelation from God the Father.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 22, 2011 6:55:59 PM PDT
What JWs believe is that Jesus died. Period. They don't say anything about His Glorious Resurrection at all.
‹ Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... 115 Next ›
[Add comment]
Add your own message to the discussion
To insert a product link use the format: [[ASIN:ASIN product-title]] (What's this?)
Prompts for sign-in


This discussion

Discussion in:  Christianity forum
Participants:  61
Total posts:  2854
Initial post:  Mar 21, 2011
Latest post:  Oct 11, 2012

New! Receive e-mail when new posts are made.
Tracked by 5 customers

Search Customer Discussions