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When did Satan "Fall"?


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Initial post: Aug 3, 2012 2:47:15 PM PDT
T.R. says:
Just curious about what you believe.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 3, 2012 2:49:33 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Nov 10, 2012 4:32:40 PM PST
When he tripped on his overly large ego.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 3, 2012 2:57:08 PM PDT
T.R. says:
I said "when" not "how". What do you think?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 3, 2012 3:10:50 PM PDT
long long time ago

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 3, 2012 3:12:27 PM PDT
T.R. says:
*smacks forehead*

I mean if you used the timeline that the Bible gives when was it? Before Adam and Eve? After? Was he the serpent and fell after he tricked Adam and Eve? What do you think?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 3, 2012 3:14:18 PM PDT
Some time after the 6th day of Creation.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 3, 2012 3:18:31 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 3, 2012 3:18:46 PM PDT
T.R. says:
So, after Adam and Eve...? That's right... you believe he was the serpent if I remember correctly?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 3, 2012 3:19:51 PM PDT
I believe he was in the garden while Adam and Eve were there and eventually he got a big head and decided he wanted the worship for himself and that is when he decided to deceive Eve. It seems odd to me that Eve was not the least bit alarmed by a talking serpent, which makes me wonder if it was the norm for the animals to speak. (Sounds kind of crazy I know), But I wonder why she didn't scream and run away from the talking snake instead of carrying on a conversation as if it was just a normal everyday thing to do. So I believe he was there for a while in the garden and then he fell from his position after he deceived Eve.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 3, 2012 3:24:38 PM PDT
T.R. says:
His head got bigger? lol. I'm just kidding.

Funny to bring up the talking part of it. There is actually another talking animal in the Bible. It was a talking donkey. The person the donkey was talking to also didn't seem alarmed.

So, if I understood you correctly, you believe Satan was the serpent and he fell after the deception?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 3, 2012 3:29:18 PM PDT
mrs exp says:
TR,
After Adam and Eve were created, but before they sinned. He was the first sinner. He was created blameless until unrighteousness was found within him. He was internally filled with violence and he sinned Ezk 15-16

He said, " I will ascend to heaven, I will raise my throne above the stars of God, I will make myself like the Most High. Is 14:13-14.
exp

Posted on Aug 3, 2012 3:35:00 PM PDT
Scott says:
The Bible does not say exactly when Satan fell but we do know that it was between Gen. 1:1 and Gen. 1:2. He was already fallen when he arrived into Adam's Eden. Someone mentioned above that it was after the 6th day of creation. Not true. The 6 days mentioned in Genesis was a restoration of the earth, not an original creation. The earth was in a state of chaos in Gen. 1:2 due to the rebellion and fall of Satan. The verses that follow document the restoration. Note that God told Adam to "replenish" the earth which means to fill it up "again". In other words, there were inhabitants on the earth prior to Adam's race.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 3, 2012 3:52:37 PM PDT
TR -- So, after Adam and Eve...?

I'm not quite following you and don't want to assume. What do you mean by that? Do you mean he fell after they fell, or he fell after they were created?

Posted on Aug 3, 2012 3:56:59 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 3, 2012 4:08:44 PM PDT
M. Simonson says:
When is an interesting question because it brings up the time domain in relation to the creation. Agustin roughly said that God exists outside time (meaning the time domain of the creation) and Aquinas roughly said that God created time with the universe (meaning the physical creation). Our modern understanding of time as a property of the physical universe relative to speed, acceleration and mass makes that sound almost prophetic and puts a different spin on this.

Some take it too far and try to play sophistry games bringing Einstein and quantum physics into the time question as it relates to creation. The primary and literary definition of time has nothing to do with physical properties of the universe, but rather it is related to the idea that things happen in sequence, there is past present and future. Sometimes this is said as "the arrow of time". Relativity is meaningless in the primary definition of time, the idea is that sequential events don't just happen in any order.

Some fundamentalist teachers take the language of Genesis in a hyper-literal manner and say that nothing, including the creation of angelic beings happened before day one. The problem is that this assumes that spiritual dimensions and earthly dimensions are deadlocked in literal co-linear time.

Satan is an angelic being, he fell after he was created regardless of playing tricks with the time question. He fell before the temptation in the garden.

Things get even more fun, in Luke 10:18 Jesus makes a expositional statement "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven" after the 70 go out and return. Some have even tried to say that this is when Satan was officially kicked out.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 3, 2012 4:39:12 PM PDT
T.R. says:
Interesting view. So, Adam and Eve were created, then Satan fell, then tricked Adam and Eve as the serpent?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 3, 2012 4:45:50 PM PDT
T.R. says:
"The Bible does not say exactly when Satan fell but we do know that it was between Gen. 1:1 and Gen. 1:2. He was already fallen when he arrived into Adam's Eden"

True, it doesn't. But it also doesn't say he was the serpent in Eden.

"Note that God told Adam to "replenish" the earth which means to fill it up "again". In other words, there were inhabitants on the earth prior to Adam's race."

Interesting theory. The word you are referring to is male' ("to fill"). The translation using "replenish" is a little misleading. The Jewish translation into English says "be fertile and increase, fill the earth and master it".

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 3, 2012 4:46:27 PM PDT
T.R. says:
I'm asking if you think Satan fell after Adam and Eve were created.

Posted on Aug 3, 2012 4:48:04 PM PDT
J. M. Bullis says:
Before. I second between Gen 1:1 and 1:2. When you really look into it it comes out. How could he be in the garden already otherwise?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 3, 2012 4:51:08 PM PDT
T.R. says:
So, some time after he was created and before the Temptation? That's a big gap of time.

It's odd that lightning is used to refer to Jesus and angels of God that remained under his control. Abaddon, an angel of the God is said to come to Earth like lightning in the Book of Revelation.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 3, 2012 4:51:54 PM PDT
T.R. says:
Just curious... why do you think he was in the garden?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 3, 2012 5:13:58 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 3, 2012 6:03:03 PM PDT
M. Simonson says:
"Interesting theory. The word you are referring to is male' ("to fill"). The translation using "replenish" is a little misleading."

This comes up often with study of those verses. Interestingly enough the first English dictionaries had fill as the primary definition of the word replenish. English is a goofy and patched together language, we would normally assume that the "re" in the word means to do it again, but it wasn't taken that way when the oldest English Bibles or dictionaries were written.

There are many examples like this, the Greek word translated kingdom means the reign of the ruler or kingship. there was another word for the locality or nation the kings of hereditary lines would control. But we think of it as a locality with borders. So reading that modern folks try to figure out where the locality is. Ancient readers never took it that way in the first place. By the late 1800s the primary definition had changed and Young in Young's literal translated the word as reign. But even modern translators like to use the confusing word kingdom for basileia.

- edit to add - Young also corrected Genesis 1:28 this was well known by scholars of Hebrew.

Posted on Aug 3, 2012 5:15:11 PM PDT
After his 4th tequila, on the way to the bathroom.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 3, 2012 5:22:04 PM PDT
Scott says:
TR,

The word "replenish" agrees with over 95% of all available hebrew texts unlike the vast majority of the modern sensual versions of the bible which draw their texts from the spurious 5% of texts. God even told Noah to "replenish" the earth and we all know that there were people before Noah. Also, Satan was NOT the serpent. He used the serpent who at that time was no doubt a sentient creature, hence God's curse upon the serpent for yielding to Satan.

It is evident that there was a civilization here before man. Lucifer (Satan) ruled the earth in harmony for an undetermined amount of time as detailed in Isaiah 12 and in Ezekiel 28 before he rebelled and then after he rebelled, he was cast back to the earth and the earth was cast into chaos and flooded as was the state in Genesis 1:2. This was NOT Noah's flood. This was the first flood...Noah's was the second. There were no natural survivors after the first flood unlike Noah's flood as indicated in Jeremiah 4:23-28.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 3, 2012 5:43:27 PM PDT
T.R. says:
Interesting theory.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 3, 2012 8:39:10 PM PDT
are you serious or are you a troll

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 3, 2012 8:40:49 PM PDT
time always existed
always will

the master clock keeps ticking no matter what we think
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Discussion in:  Christianity forum
Participants:  65
Total posts:  2136
Initial post:  Aug 3, 2012
Latest post:  Mar 23, 2013

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