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A Momentary Lapse Of Reason vs Division Bell


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Posted on Dec 31, 2010 11:00:16 AM PST
zlh67 says:
To each his own Lone Wolf! If you like a good "tune" and don't worry so much about lyrics, you're a lot like Gilmour, so little wonder you don't care as much for the albums where he's less present. I'll be the first to admit that Roger is/was not as good at melody as Gilmour, though it is interesting to note that Waters penned their two biggest hit singles ("Money" and "Another Brick, Pt 2"). I like great lyrics and Roger always delivers that, but I also find Roger's music far from abysmal. That's me though. Again, it's down to taste.

@Topper - yeah, fair points, I guess I just don't see LYRICALLY what is so different on The Final Cut than what Waters would do on albums like Radio KAOS, Amused to Death or even Animals. He tends to be direct and hard-hitting and not stray too far from his favorite themes. To me, it's the music that is different on The Final Cut more than the lyrics, but that's my take. And yeah, I can see the Gilmour fans liking Two Suns because it is a little calmer and more laid back, more like what Gilmour himself might write. That and Not Now John seem to be favorites of the Gilmour fans since the latter features Gilmour singing co-lead on the vocals. I personally like The Gunner's Dream, The Fletcher Memorial Home, the title track, The Hero's Return and The Post War Dream the most. And the rest are fine too although Paranoid Eyes is one I can kinda do without.

Re, Barrett, I must confess to not knowing a lot of that stuff. I have the "Works" cd and do like the singles ("See Emily Play" and "Arnold Layne") and I've heard 1 or 2 other cuts, but have never heard the full album he did with Floyd. I've seen enough to know that he definitely had a unique point of view and gift at writing. I guess the music itself just sounds a little dated to me, so i've never really sought it out, but I shall at some point! Totally agree that Waters is/was a tortured soul, but clearly Barrett was going on a journey that only he could relate to or describe in any way.

Posted on Dec 31, 2010 11:53:35 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 31, 2010 11:54:13 AM PST
@zlh67: Oh, I agree, the music on TFC is pretty different from their past ("Two Suns" excepted). The lyrics aren't too different from the last couple of Floyd albums but still seemed harsher and more one-dimensional to me, and delivered in a *very* cynical voice...but anyways, I'll not say any more on that album until I've relistened again and get back to you!

As for Barrett, if you like the two singles from "Works", definitely check out the entire "Piper At The Gates Of Dawn" and "Saucerful Of Secrets" albums (Barrett only writes one song--the aforementioned brilliant "Jug Band Blues"--on SOS but plays on at least two other cuts). Those singles were actually slightly atypical of that era although "Piper" does have other examples of that kind of catchy psychedelic pop, mixed with darker psych-pop and the lengthy "Interstellar Overdrive" jam. For examples of their (drastically different from the studio) live sound, though, I'd go to Youtube and click on "Pink Floyd UFO club" or "Pink Floyd Interstellar Overdrive 1967" and you'll see some pretty extraordinary (though usually incomplete) clips. There's also a funny clip of them performing "Astronomy Domine" in May '67 and then being interviewed by some stuffy establishment type who complains that their music is too loud. I believe the infamous "American Bandstand" clip of "Apples And Oranges" from Oct '67 is also on there, where Barrett refused to lip-synch the words and then gave Dick Clark a silent, psychotic stare during the interview portion. Good stuff!!

Posted on Dec 31, 2010 1:59:47 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 2, 2011 9:16:57 AM PST
zlh67 says:
Yeah, the vocals on TFC are definitely tortured sounding (in places), so maybe it's his delivery that rubs you wrong as much as the lyrics themselves. I love his vocal style and in particular, when he sings a little louder and/or in the higher registers (like he can no longer do), so that's a plus for me, but you wouldn't be the first to say his vocals are a little too strained and over the top on that album (Waters himself has said the "tortured" delivery wasn't a conscious effort, but more came naturally due to two reasons: the subject matter itself, but also that the album was torture to make as well, ie, the tension of the group dissolving at that point). I like it though, and two of the lesser songs from that album (Get Your Filthy Hands Off My Dessert & Southhampton Dock) I grew to like much more after hearing Roger make an acoustic medley of both of them on his 2000 tour. If you haven't heard the live versions from the "In The Flesh" live album, I highly recommend it!

Anyway, I've always said I need to go back and get the rest of the early Floyd catalog even though it's not my favorite era, and I will. Piper is probably highest on my list. I've never heard all of that one, nor SOS. I used to have Ummagumma but didn't care much for it. Oh, Atom Heart Mother is another I've not heard. Seems even old-school Floyd fans either love or hate that one. I have some other obscure stuff (Zabriskie Point, some rarities sets on cd-r) plus Obscured & Meddle and then everything else moving forward though... All I find essential is Dark Side and on, though there are some great individual cuts I enjoy from earlier albums (Free Four, San Tropez, Fearless, One Of These Days).

And I have seen some of the clips you're talking about. I have a dvd recording of "Let's All Make Love Tonite In London" (I think it's called) which features early (and as you say, mostly incomplete) clips of some performances with Syd. And yeah, the ol' crusty interviewer... "WHY has it GOT to be so LOUD??" I can't remember who answers (Roger?), but I believe it's along the lines of, "Well, it doesn't HAVE to be, but that's they way we like it..." The look on the old man's face is priceless.

So sad Syd lost it after just one album and really, to me anyway, extraordinary that another songwriting ace emerged. If Syd had stayed ok and Waters blossomed, think of the stuff they could have come up with together! Perhaps a songwriting team up there with Lennon-McCartney or Jagger-Richards. As it is though, Waters and the rest did pretty ok without him too.

Posted on Jan 1, 2011 9:27:49 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 1, 2011 9:30:23 AM PST
@zlh67: "Ummagumma" is a very schizophrenic album. I love the live portion, but the studio record only has "Gratchester Meadows" and that's about it. It was a mistake to give each member a solo spot. "Atom Heart Mother" is not generally well-regarded either, although "If" is an underrated gem (and early sign of Waters' emerging talent). AHM worked much better in live performance without the orchestra; it sounds much more like an early version of "Echoes" (though I know you don't like that one much, either). I think "Free Four" is actually one of the weakest songs on "Obscured By Clouds", though I like the rest of the album ("Burning Bridges" is nice...a lot of that album sounds like a dry run for "Dark Side").

There's actually an addendum video for "Tonight Let's All Make Love In London" which features clear color footage of Pink Floyd recording lengthy versions of "Interstellar Overdrive" and another great electronic jam "Nick's Boogie" at their very first recording session in January '67, intercut with a lot of Swinging London, early UFO club and 24 Hour Technicolor Dream footage (including some shots of a completely LSD-fried John Lennon checking out Yoko Ono's 'cut-piece' performance!). I think you can find that stuff on youtube, too...definitely worth checking out.

It is quite cool that after Syd left, Floyd regrouped and emerged stronger than ever with Waters and Gilmour. They kind of tripped over themselves in the studio in 1969/70 but were still a smoking live act, then finally put it all together (I know not in your mind, but in most observers) for "Meddle". Syd and Waters together would have been interesting, though I'm not sure if their styles would have meshed. It's probably good that it happened the way it did.

Posted on Jan 2, 2011 7:54:53 AM PST
zlh67 says:
Good for everyone but Syd... :-(

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 2, 2011 8:50:51 AM PST
[Deleted by Amazon on Feb 23, 2011 8:32:54 AM PST]

Posted on Jan 2, 2011 9:03:51 AM PST
zlh67 says:
@Topper: I like Meddle fine and would agree that that's where they started to put it all together. There's a side of actual good songs and then "Echoes" which I think is a bit long and has it's weak spots, but Waters credits that as sparking the idea for a whole album tied to similar themes and that of course led to Dark Side, WYWH, Animals, The Wall (the "big four").

I think the more hardcore Floyd fans like Meddle and the earlier albums. For most though, the classic albums are the four that followed Meddle.

Posted on Jan 2, 2011 12:46:53 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 2, 2011 12:49:20 PM PST
@zlh67: For me, the clearest sign that the group was comprised of former architecture students is "Echoes". When I listen to it, I am always impressed by its meticulous construction and buildup. Although I can see where people can think certain sections drag on too long. Actually, the edit of "Echoes" on the "Echoes" 2-disc compilation from a few years back was pretty successful in including every major part of the song, while shortening some of the padded bits. Although, to be honest, those spacey, padded bits sound *fantastic* when you're high and it was 1971, after all. The music was made for people on drugs, and Pink Floyd were already renowned as the premier stoner-rock group. Having a four-minute section of electronic seagull noises all made sense back then. :) That aside, however, the recent edit was actually so impressive to me that I would probably say it is the definitive version of the song.

Posted on Jan 14, 2011 12:12:04 PM PST
Jack McNey says:
AMLOR sucks, Division Bell.
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Posted on Jan 16, 2011 4:39:49 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 16, 2011 6:28:17 AM PST
Zaplightning says:
I don't like either album.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 22, 2014 4:21:00 PM PST
I am shocked that you, of many people, would think a recent edit of a 40 year old song could be the definitive version.

Posted on Nov 25, 2014 11:30:00 AM PST
bass boy says:
I prefer the 1971 to 1983 era, but I do like both "A Momentary Lapse of Reason" and "Division Bell." For me, "High Hopes" is the high water mark for the post-1985/Waters Floyd, but as records, I probably like both equally.

And I actually like "The Endless River," too. It's nice they kept so much of Rick Wright's keyboards intact, and kept Mason away from electronic drums. (I know, it's Jim Keltner, not really Mason, on "Momentary Lapse," so we can't completely blame Mason for the late 1980s Floyd's electric drum bits. :) )

Posted on Nov 27, 2014 12:24:22 PM PST
Rocky T says:
Waters fan, hate them both, should be called Pink Fraud or Fake Floyd.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2014 9:24:05 PM PST
zlh67 says:
Pink Fraud: A Monetary Case of Treason
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Discussion in:  Classic Rock forum
Participants:  27
Total posts:  164
Initial post:  Dec 10, 2010
Latest post:  Nov 27, 2014

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