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Slava Iskustvu - Voting Round...

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In reply to an earlier post on Jan 1, 2013 7:55:25 AM PST
Chris L says:
Thank you K. J. MCGILP
for your seconding of CnCB's recommendations ,
and for your recommendations of conductors.
In general I like Kubelik's way with music , and also Belohlavek's ,
so I will be happy to listen to recordings of either for Suk ,
and I will also listen to Ancerl's if he recorded any ,
as I find him very convincing with other of the Czech repertoire and some non-Czech composers.

Hopefully one of the Games co-ordinators will call for nominations for a Czech-mate game !

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 3:10:30 AM PST
T. Anderson says:
or if you're british, you would say, "that's czech, mate!"

Posted on Dec 29, 2012 4:39:55 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 29, 2012 7:49:06 PM PST
K.J. McGilp says:
It would be good. A whole lotta Dvorak for sure. Janacek, Martinu, Suk, Smetana, Novak............yeah, it would work.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 29, 2012 4:20:42 PM PST
KenOC says:
When you win, you get to say "Czech-mate!"

Posted on Dec 29, 2012 4:15:03 PM PST
MF says:
A purely Czech game is a good idea.

Posted on Dec 29, 2012 7:19:54 AM PST
K.J. McGilp says:
Chris L. and CnCB,

I could not agree more in regards to Suk's Asrael, Fairy Tale, Serenade etc.
Asrael has the emotional impact of any Mahler symphony. It's very serious stuff. Fairy Tale is enriched with so much melody.
Very sweet in contrast to Asrael's ominous subject matter. The Serenade is one of the finest written for strings that I could think of. I think it is on the level of Tchaikovsky's Serenade for Strings.
The recording by the Czech Philharmonic with Jiri Belohlavek directing contains all three of these works. All of them done masterfully. There is also the classic Kubelik rendering of Asrael. There are several very impressive recordings of Asrael and other works by Suk. Many of them done by Czech conductor's and orchestras. It is indeed great music.

Posted on Dec 28, 2012 9:22:19 AM PST
Chris L says:
Thank you CnCB for your recommendations !

I have a recording of Martinu's Epic Of Gilgamesh which I like a lot -{the one released on Naxos with Kosler conducting}-
and that is "an immensely powerful work" , thus I will buy a Suk Asrael ,
and also listen to some of his "beautiful" music.
Czech beauty is beauty !

Posted on Dec 28, 2012 9:11:40 AM PST
You do need to hear Asrael, Chris. It is an immensely powerful work. If you want to hear how beautiful Suk's music can be, try, his Fantastic Scherzo, A Fairy Tale, or his Serenade...

Posted on Dec 28, 2012 9:08:48 AM PST
Chris L says:
I agree with Cute 'n Cuddly Bartok in both his paragraphs above.

There are enough notable compositions for a Czech Music game:

Dvorak enthusiasts would list at least 10 works quickly ,
and those familiar with his Chamber works would add more.

Janacek rates for at least 10 significant works ,
as likely will Martinu.

I know only 2 of Smetana's compositions ,
and regretably none from the remaining three composers that CnCB lists ,
however notable works by each of them will be Nominated for any game ,
and thus those of us less comprehensively knowledgeable would have an idea where to start listening.

I think there would be at least 50 works nominated that would be seconded if a sufficient number of people are interested.

I have heard of Suk's Asrael , but have yet to hear it.

The First and Second places will be won by Dvorak's From The New World Symphony and Cello Concerto ,
however the placings of all others will be interesting !

Posted on Dec 23, 2012 4:09:10 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 23, 2012 4:10:27 AM PST
The trouble with lumping all these countries together as one is they are about as different as you can imagine. There are just as big cultural differences between, say, the Czechs and the Hungarians as between the English and the French. And naturally some countries, having been "Westernised" for a lot longer, have a richer musical heritage.

The Czechs alone would have enough works to merit a game on their own, a handful of works each from Smetana, Dvorak, Janacek, Martinu, Suk, Novak, Eben, and then the wealth of composers from the classical and baroque era. A Polish game would understandably be dominated by one supreme composer for the piano, and Hungary would end up being a head to head between Liszt and Bartok, with the odd googly from Kodaly. In the rest of these places I think one has to dig to find music of world class. Sorry to be snobbish, but it is true.....try naming a repertoire piece that has come out of the old Yugoslavia (apart from MJQ A Day in Dubrovnik!)

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 22, 2012 11:40:47 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 22, 2012 11:51:29 AM PST
Chris L says:
Hi MF , and whoever else reading here ...
and as MF asked for a "preferred" ...
my choices are in alphabetical order of composer's name as I cannot easily allocate order of favorites:

Mussorgsky: Pictures At An Exhibition
Prokofiev: Symph #5
Prokofiev: Symph #6
Rachmaninoff: Piano Conc #2
Rachmaninoff: Piano Conc #3
Rachmaninoff: Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganinni
Rachmaninoff: Symphonic Dances
Schnittke: Piano Quintet
Shostakovich: String Quartet #3
Shostakovich: Symph #4
Shostakovich: Symph #15
Shostakovich: Violin Conc #1
Stravinsky: Petrouchka
Tchaikovsky: Symph #4
Tchaikovsky: Manfred Symph

If I was asked to nominate the most significant compositions that defined Russian Classical Music
the list would be:

Borodin: Symph #2 , as that defines the initial Russian symphonic sound style.
Mussorgsky: Pictures At An Exhibition , as a unique composition for piano.
Prokofiev: Piano Concerto #2 , for further development of concerto style ,
though one could argue that his 3rd concerto develops the style more significantly.
Prokofiev: Alexander Nevsky cantata.
Rachmaninoff: Piano Conc #2 , as defines a distinctly Russian sound.
Rachmaninoff: Vespers
Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade
Schnittke: Concerto Grosso #1 , as introduced a significant development in music.
Shostakovich: Lady Macbeth of Mitsensk is his revolutionary contribution to Russian music ,
however as that work was not in the game ,
then his String Quartet #3 is his significant development of string quartet style.
Shostakovich: Symph #10 well concludes the significant style of symphonic composition he had been developing ,
though his 15th symph concludes another of his styles which is equally as good even though a bit too unusual for professional academic music critics to acknowledge.
Stravinsky: Firebird
Stravinsky: Petrouchka
Stravinsky: Rite Of Spring
Tchaikovsky: Swan Lake
Tchaikovsky: Symph #4 , as musically quite unlike any preceeding symphonies.

Gubaidulina may be the next most significant composer after Schnittke ,
however I do not know either of those of her works that were in this game.

I have 15 in each list because I cannot leave any of those out.
I like a lot of the other works from this game ,
and consider several more of them to be significant in Russian classical music.

Prokofiev's Symph #2 - not in the game - is also a distinctive development in Russian symphonic music ,
and is another which is a bit too strange for some of the professional academic music critics to accept.

Posted on Dec 20, 2012 10:14:44 PM PST
KenOC says:
Winter solstice is on 12/21/12 at 11:12 universal time. That's 03:12 Amazon time...

Five hours to go.

Posted on Dec 20, 2012 10:05:37 PM PST
It's not a question of who he identifies with but where he was formed musically.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 20, 2012 9:49:42 PM PST
MF says:
Maya culpa!

There is good reason to believe that this apocalyptic story is, in any case, a misinterpretation of the implications of their calender.

Posted on Dec 20, 2012 9:46:27 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 20, 2012 9:51:17 PM PST
MF says:
MZ & peter

If my reading of Xenakis's life is correct there seems to me little doubt as to which regional and ethnic locality he identified with - and I am reasonably sure it was not France. Indeed, I am somewhat perplexed as to why it is in question.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 20, 2012 9:46:05 PM PST
KenOC says:
We'd better do it quick. A couple of hours and there may not be a tomorrow.

Posted on Dec 20, 2012 9:42:48 PM PST
MF says:
Agree with peter about dates.

Posted on Dec 20, 2012 9:24:13 PM PST
Messiaen said similar things about many of his star pupils, including Boulez and Stockhausen! But okay with me.

Posted on Dec 20, 2012 7:28:47 PM PST
Think we can treat Xenakis as the ultimate exception. There's a book named Conversations with Messiaen or something like that which describes his relationship with Xenakis as sui generis, but generally more colleague than mentor. Wasn't Iannis pushing 40 by the time he started study in France, after having been a soldier following his student days?

And, as MF points out, that game is already past ;-)

Posted on Dec 20, 2012 7:02:49 PM PST
Maybe we should split the former SSRs from the East Bloc countries.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 20, 2012 6:35:58 PM PST
KenOC says:
d2e, same problem with composers from Bosnia and Herzegovina! Their names are too-well known to even mention... ;-)

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 20, 2012 6:33:11 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 20, 2012 6:34:00 PM PST
KenOC says:
"Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan are former SSR's too."

Peter, yes, but they're not contiguous with the rest, way out there to the East. I have no problem including them, so I'll leave it at that.

Posted on Dec 20, 2012 6:10:09 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 20, 2012 6:24:54 PM PST
down2erth says:
The trouble with this listing, for example, would be in my case I know a lot of Bulgarian music that probably most of you have never heard of. I have quite a collection of Balkanton LPs with a number of composers well known in their own country but little known elsewhere. I would presume Pancho Vladigerov would be the only Bulgarian composer of any renown, and many of you may not even be familiar with his music. There's Dafov, Kotev, Sagaev, Yosifov, Goleminov, Tanev, Marinov, Stoikov, Stoyanov, Hristov, Kyurkchiyski, Pironkov, Christoskov and Levy (Jules that is). Now most of these are not world-class composers but they have produced some music of note. I'm sure the same may be the case in many other countries on this list. Of course I don't see any solution to this dilemma . . .

Posted on Dec 20, 2012 6:07:40 PM PST
Re MZ's concern about the start date of the game: we could just do nominations before NYD, and then run the game in 2013.

Posted on Dec 20, 2012 6:05:33 PM PST
Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan are former SSR's too.
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Discussion in:  Classical Music forum
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Initial post:  Dec 2, 2012
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