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Customer Discussions > Classical Music forum

Sir Simon Rattle to step down as Berlin Philharmonic chief conductor in 2018


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Showing 1-25 of 176 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Jan 14, 2013 9:21:15 AM PST
http://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical-music-news/sir-simon-rattle-to-step-down-as-berlin-philharmonic-chief-conductor-in-2018-0?utm_source=Silverpop&utm_medium=EMAIL&utm_campaign=GRAM%20ENews%20Bulletin%20-%20130114%20(14.01.2013)&utm_content=article2_headline

Posted on Jan 14, 2013 9:24:31 AM PST
Who will they hire instead?
Christian Thielemann?

Of course I vote for Thomas Dausgaard.

Posted on Jan 14, 2013 9:29:35 AM PST
DavidRFoss says:
That's nice of Rattle to give them five years notice. They can take their time bringing in guest conductors for consideration for a few years.

Posted on Jan 14, 2013 10:24:55 AM PST
From wiki this list of the BPO's
Principal conductors:

Ludwig von Brenner (1882-1887)
Hans von Bülow (1887-1892)
Arthur Nikisch (1895-1922)
Wilhelm Furtwängler (1922-1945)
Leo Borchard (May - August 1945)
Sergiu Celibidache (1945-1952)
Wilhelm Furtwängler (1952-1954)
Herbert von Karajan (1954-1989)
Claudio Abbado (1989-2002)
Simon Rattle (2002-2018)

Posted on Jan 14, 2013 11:41:13 AM PST
HB says:
Rattle is making the right decision, IMO. Both Eugene Ormandy and Herbert Von Karajan stayed with their orchestras over 40 years. They were not the same conductors in their '80's as they were in their '50's. I am not saying conductors cannot conduct in their '80's but for the most part, they are not at their peak at that age.

Posted on Jan 14, 2013 11:55:33 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 14, 2013 11:57:49 AM PST
Skaynan says:
Do you like the BPO under Rattle? Do you think he is on the same level like his predecessors? (I think not). Then again, hard to see who can really follow Furtwangler--> Karajan--> Abbado...

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 14, 2013 1:16:36 PM PST
K. Beazley says:
Skaynan,

"Do you like the BPO under Rattle? Do you think he is on the same level like his predecessors? (I think not). Then again, hard to see who can really follow Furtwangler--> Karajan--> Abbado..."

Interesting question. I don't know that it's really fair to compare today's conductors to those of the past. After all, the conditions of the different eras vary so dramatically. In Furtwängler's time, & even for much of Karajan's, the conductor was such an autocratic, god-like figure, maintaining a certain distance from the players, as well as an elevated celebrity status, whereas these days they seem to be more of a "primus inter pares", & in a world which has a far lower regard for orchestral music, & yet with a far wider array of recorded orchestras & conductors to choose from, the celebrity status is greatly diminished.

I think that the great conductors of each age are those particular types whose combination of talents & personality best match the age they occupy, & I wonder if such personalities as Furtwängler or Karajan would shine as brightly today as they did in their own eras.

For this reason I think that anyone who has conducted the BPO is on *exactly* the same level as all his predecessors, because the *real* test of greatness in question is the actual bestowing & holding of that position. I regard them all as great, though in different ways.

Posted on Jan 14, 2013 8:31:51 PM PST
Autonomeus says:
Rattle isn't on the same level as the past greats, and neither is today's BPO.

Its reputation far exceeds its recent accomplishments.

Barenboim's Staatskapelle Berlin and Thielemann's Staatskapelle Dresden are stronger in the German Romantic tradition, and Cambreling's SWR Baden-Baden und Frieburg is stronger in contemporary repertoire.

Posted on Jan 15, 2013 5:02:10 AM PST
scarecrow says:
I don't think it matters, for the Berlin Phil is a centrist orchestra, nothing too demanding in its repertoire, agenda and aesthetic vision, and as Hutch with his excellent examples, music is done better elsewhere anyways, especially modern repertoire. . . .

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 15, 2013 7:27:09 AM PST
...but they could hire a conductor who made them matter...

Posted on Jan 15, 2013 8:33:52 AM PST
HB says:
Since this thread is about the BPO, I thought I would mention that the Vienna Phil. is playing a concert tonight in Berlin. The conductor is octogenerian, Georges Pretre and the program is strictly warhorse: Beethoven 7, Stravinsky Firebird Suite and Ravel Bolero. Personally, I find the Bolero to be extremely anti-climatic after the Firebird Suite. I hope the concert is televised by PBS, despite the ordinary program.

http://www.berliner-philharmoniker.de/en/konzerte/calendar/details/3925/

Posted on Jan 15, 2013 9:05:17 AM PST
John Spinks says:
Yawnnnnnnn. But we must suffer through another four years of ho-hum recordings from the BPHO?

The last time I truly remember liking the BPHO was under K in the early 70s. That doesn't mean I haven't bought some of their recordings since, but I can think of none that thrilled me.

Posted on Jan 15, 2013 9:59:17 AM PST
Same news from another source:

http://www.classical-music.com/news/sir-simon-rattle-leave-berlin-phil-2018?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=NLT_MUS_14-01-2013_Newsletter_BBC%20Music_Newsletters&utm_content=

Posted on Jan 15, 2013 10:19:59 AM PST
from that article:

>>Rattle joined the orchestra in 2002 and his tenure seemed to get off to a bumpy start with rumours that some of the Berlin Phil's musicians would have preferred Daniel Barenboim as chief conductor. But having secured fair pay for all and got written assurance from Berlin politicians of the orchestra's artistic independence, Rattle managed to gain the orchestra's loyalty.<<

Maybe Barenboim would have suited the BPO better?

Posted on Jan 15, 2013 11:41:17 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 15, 2013 11:45:34 AM PST
Autonomeus says:
I suspect that may be true. They love Danny at the Staatskapelle Berlin, where they made him Director for Life.

The Rattle choice may have been a decision to continue the more forward-looking direction of Abbado, based on Rattle's modernist advocacy at Birmingham, but Rattle has done nothing for the BPO comparable to what Salonen did for Los Angeles.

Posted on Jan 15, 2013 12:45:05 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 15, 2013 12:46:25 PM PST
Skaynan says:
Rattle was great with the CBSO. He DID put this orchestra on the map, that's for sure. If we are to place bets on the next BPO conductor, I'll put my money on Dudamel or (a long shot) Gergiev. They are young enough (well, Dudamel is) and charismatic enough for the task at 2018.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 15, 2013 1:26:36 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 15, 2013 1:27:01 PM PST
K. Beazley says:
Skaynan,

I would imagine that Gergiev would not be much older in 2018 than Karajan was in 1954, & I'm sure he'd be younger than Abbado was in 1989.

Posted on Jan 15, 2013 1:27:47 PM PST
John Spinks says:
I'm with K. Beazley. I bet Gergiev could get some fire out of the BPHO.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 15, 2013 2:39:11 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 15, 2013 5:43:38 PM PST
I like Dausgaard very much, but I think that Thielemann will win the horse race--not that that would be a bad thing.

Posted on Jan 15, 2013 3:18:34 PM PST
Charade says:
Most likely Thielemann. His understanding of the German Romantic tradition alone would be considered ideal by some in Germany.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 15, 2013 5:26:09 PM PST
HB says:
"I would imagine that Gergiev would not be much older in 2018 than Karajan was in 1954, & I'm sure he'd be younger than Abbado was in 1989."

Skaynan,

Karajan was 47 when took over the BPO in 1955. Abbado was 56 when he took it over in 1989. Gergiev is now 59.

One name not mentioned is Franz Welser-Most. I guess he is a long shot but I believe he has the talent and the experience. Being music director of the Cleveland Orchestra makes a resume look very good, IMO. And he is a very fine Bruckner conductor.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 15, 2013 6:24:58 PM PST
K. Beazley says:
HB,

I didn't realize Gergiev was quite that old.

As for Welser-Möst, apart from the fact that he, too, will be 58 in 2018 (just thought I'd throw that in ;-)), he also currently has the directorship of the Vienna State Opera, another feather in his cap.

But I'd like to throw a few up & comers into the mix. What of Andris Nelsons, currently in charge of Rattle's former orchestra, CBSO? Or what of Edward Gardner, currently director of ENO? Or Vasily Petrenko, currently in charge in Liverpool? Or Vladimir Jurowski, current LPO director?

Any takers?

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 15, 2013 6:45:16 PM PST
KenOC says:
Edward Gardner may be under a cloud right now for commercial reasons. Or maybe not?

http://tinyurl.com/d4p4dny

Posted on Jan 15, 2013 7:11:19 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 15, 2013 7:12:03 PM PST
Autonomeus says:
What about Riccardo Chailly? (He's 59, same as Gergiev.) Esa-Pekka Salonen? Paavo Jarvi?

Or the first woman -- Simone Young of the Hamburg Philharmonic. She has recorded Bruckner, Wagner and Mahler.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 15, 2013 7:40:45 PM PST
K. Beazley says:
Hutch,

Thanks for mentioning the Aussie, Simone Young. She has also served as assistant to Barenboim in both Berlin & Bayreuth, which aren't bad credentials. I hope the fact that she's never recorded with any of the major labels doesn't count against her. But then again, if you score the gig with Berlin, then I would imagine the majors will all scramble for your signature.

Regarding Gergiev & Chailly, they are perhaps in the same boat as to their similarities in age & their high standing as musical directors of first-rank orchestras (that's probably why nobody has mentioned the ever-youthful looking, though already septagenerian, Mariss Jansons). So if either of those gentlemen got the nod, I would assume it was for similar reasons that the Catholic Church got an octogenarian Pope, i.e., as the best available, & most pleasing as a stop-gap to all opinions within the orchestra, until a clear-cut candidate shows themselves in the next decade (maybe Dudamel, or maybe some as-yet unknown bright star).
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Discussion in:  Classical Music forum
Participants:  34
Total posts:  176
Initial post:  Jan 14, 2013
Latest post:  May 15, 2015

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