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Die Fliegender Hollander, aka Flying Dutchman

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Posted on Jul 26, 2012 11:10:13 AM PDT

does this '91 performance as 'Lulu"s father mark hotter's last recording?

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 26, 2012 11:38:38 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 26, 2012 5:08:18 PM PDT
Edgar Self says:
Paul Schoeffler deserves mention. I saw him sing Hans Sachs at the age of 64 in San Francisco and loved it. James Morris, still very active, is a honorable tiller in the vineyard, and wonderfully comfortable on stage where I've seen him as Wotan and in other roles ...maybe a little too comfortale for a god such as Wotan. His German is good for a non-speaker. He used to sing out of one corner of his mouth, but I haven't noticed that recently. His voice always sounded dry but otherwise is holding up well. He and Thomas Stewart were both very good, and Stewart at least I know studied with Hotter.

Hotter's voice was anything but dry, and huge in his prime. And he looked like a god, and was simply called "The God" in Bayreuth. His rages shook the entire Festspielhaus, and his elocution was, with Melchior's, among the best.

Re Jacky's question, Hotter recorded Schoenberg's "Gurrelieder" on May 23-28, 1991. I don't knoow the date of his "Lulu" but will check the biographies and discographies to answer Jacky's question.

Posted on Jul 26, 2012 5:27:15 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 26, 2012 5:29:55 PM PDT
are the dates given for the live performances of that 'lulu'.
so that one is later.

Posted on Jul 26, 2012 5:40:33 PM PDT
Edgar Self says:
Jacky, you asked about Hans Hotter's last performance, mentioning his Scholgolz in "Lulu" in 1976. His farewell to the operatic stage was in Vienna in 1978 as Inquisitor in Don Carlo, but he continued to perform in concert until 1991 ub Gurre-Lieder with Claudio Abbado at the Salszburg Festival in 1996 wgeb ge was 90. He had performed in Moses in Aron in the 1970s and 1980s.

He sang everything: Tonio in Pagliacci, Escamillo in Carmen! (there's a photo of him in his suit of lights; he looks bigger than the bull), Don Giovanni, the Count in Figaro, Falstaff, Macbeth, Amonasro in Aida, Irestes in Elektra, Jochanan in Salome, Guenther,, Dr. Morosus, Olivier, La Roche, Mandryka,Lysart Wolfram, Julius Caesar, Joshua, Boris (in German, disappointing), Iago, Pizarro, all the other roles for his voice in Boris, Meistersinger, Lohengrin, and Parsifal; Bassa Selim, King Philip. He did not sing Baron Ochs or Sarastro, for which John Tomlinson publically thanked him on behalf of other bass-baritones.

By common consent his greatest roles were Grand Inquisitor in Don Carlo, the Dutchman, and Wotan..

Hotter also recorded Haydn's Seasons, Bach's St. John Passion, Mozart's Requiem, Damnation of Faust, German Requiem, the secular cantatas of Pfitzner, Richard Strauss's "Taillefer", an incredible range of roles and parts.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 26, 2012 8:39:44 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 26, 2012 8:45:11 PM PDT
General Orc says:
No, pJ, Hotter sang a servant in this, in Dec 1993 :
R. Strauss: Capriccio
I don't know if that was his last recording.

Posted on Jul 26, 2012 9:17:53 PM PDT
cool, general orc.
'cappricio' has been on my 'some day' list for a bit.
one 8 bucks used with booklet=11 dollars, it has been ordered.
i have ulf schirmer conducting some nielsen including the opera 'masquarade' so he isn;'t that unknown to me at least

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 26, 2012 9:36:47 PM PDT
I always thought it was a waste Hotter never sang Sarastro. He could lend the role that 'godliness' to make it really stand out. I'm curious why he never sang Ochs. A pity I never borrowed that book on Hotter my library once had.

I wonder who everybody thinks was the best Ochs and Sarastro since Hotter didn't sing these roles. Weber or Edelmann for Ochs, anyone? I have yet to listen to Die Zauberflote.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 27, 2012 5:33:00 AM PDT
Kurt Moll for both roles, particularly for Sarastro, but Ochs is a role that has to be *sung*, and no one sings like Moll.


In reply to an earlier post on Jul 29, 2012 10:33:26 AM PDT
Has anyone mentioned the 1936 one with Nissen, Weber, Teschemacher, and Ralf, on Preiser? Very well sung, and in remarkably good sound for the date. I'd post a link, but I'm on my iPad...


Posted on Jul 31, 2012 9:37:24 AM PDT
gee, thanks all for help with Dutchman, sheeeesh

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 31, 2012 12:54:24 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 31, 2012 1:02:18 PM PDT
Edgar Self says:
The role of Sarastro was probably too low (bottom low D) for Hotter when he began as a Heldenbariton, and by the time his voice had deepened to bass-baritone he may have had no interest in singing it. He did sing the Speaker, Second Priest, and Second Armed Man in "Die Zauberfloete". The only role he sang in "Rosenkavalier" was that of the Notary, which is nearly as short as that of the Italian Singer. I've never seen an explanation of why Hotter avoided the role, but John Tomlinson publicly thanked him for doing so, on behalf of other baritones.

There are now two excellent books on Hans Hotter, each with discography, and one with roster of his roles: Penelope Turing's, and Hotter's own memoir written in collaboration with Donald Arthur, who lectured to the Wagner Society here about it and showed some rare films.

One of the best portrayers of Baron Ochs is Richard Mayr, who created the role and recorded comprehensive excerpts that filled two LPs, with Lotte Lehmann, Elisabeth Schumann, and Maria Olczewska in 1931. Richard Strauss asked too high a fee, so Robert Heger conducted. The sound is excellent, and it's the favourite "Rosenkavalier" of many veteran collectors. Mayr is also famous as the baritone soloist in Felix Weingartner's 1935 recording of Beethoven's ninth symphony. Mayr died soon after it.

I saw Otto Edelmann as Ochs with Elisabeth Schwarzkopf in San Francisco, and recently a German baritone whose name I forget at Lyric Opera of Chicago. It can be a tedious role if played too broadly, as it was in both of these productions. There's a filmed version with Schwarzkopf, Edelmann, and Karajan. Besides their classic recording issued in both stereo and mono, the latter at Schwarzkopf's insistence, there's a live performance with her, Hugues Cuenod, and Karajan from La Scala.

Strauss and Hofmannsthal first wanted to call their opera "Ochs"? But cooler heads, and publishers, prevailed and chose "The Cavalier of the Roses".

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 2, 2012 5:51:36 PM PDT
Montcler says:
I agree; I`ve had this recording since it came out and never tired of it. I bought newer recordings but return to this one.

Posted on Aug 6, 2012 7:25:44 PM PDT
maiden pa. says:
Living Stage version with Silja.Also remastered EMI version was 19.99 here at Amazon the other day.

Posted on Aug 7, 2012 9:19:17 AM PDT
Edgar Self says:
What is The Flying Dutchman's real name? Vander-something?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 12:46:06 AM PDT
MacDoom says:
Willem van der Decken.

Four words. And not at all a common Dutch name (Willem van der - yes; Decken? No).

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 5:04:23 PM PDT
Edgar Self says:
Thank you, Wouter MacDoom. I knew you would know. Willem van der Decken it is, then, as the Dutchman's real name.

I once spent all night tracking down The Queen of the Night's name in "Die Zauberfloete": it's Astrafiammante ... Flaming Star.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 5:27:28 PM PDT
dear Piso
I love what you did. As a librarian my desire to find the answer almost borders on the fanatic. I to would have spent how ever long it took to find the Queen of the Night's name. I honestly wouldn't, or didn't think she had a name. I love facts like this - can you reveal where you found it?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 5:44:41 PM PDT
Edgar Self says:
Lord, Bonnie, thanks, but it's so long ago I don't remember. It was definitely in the last place I looked, where things usually are. I admire and share your passion for the pricise word, although I am sometimes too lazy to look it up.

Another time I noticed the resemblance of a phrase in Richard Strauss's "Four Last Songs" to another work of music that it seemed to be quoting. That cost me another night's sleep, but I found it, in the same place where Strauss found it: in the third phrase of "Porgi Amor" by Mozart.

When I discovered that Brahms, in his E-flat minor Intermezzo, and Shostakovich in the first notes of his Fourteenth Symphony, were not quoting one another as I first thought, but were both subtly quoting the "Dies Irae" slightly modified, it was another red-letter day. I have not see this pointed out by others yet.

Or Schubert's two brief quotations of Beethoven's "Archduke" and "Ghost" trios in Schubert's own E-flat ()second) piano trio. My "discovery" that the first movement of Beethoven's "Pathetique" sonata is in French Overture style is now shared by many; also the fact that his 32 Variations in C-minor on an Original Theme are actually a chaconne, which I have seen widely confirmed and accepted. I first noted it in 1953. Or Godowsky's unmistakeable quotation of a Chopin waltz in his "Gardens of the Buitenzorg".

I'm sure other listeners make such discoveries also. We've even had a thread on it. But it keeps me going, and the terror of my friends, who flee at my approach. But an informative bore is better than nothing, surely? And there are so many bores of the other kind.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 5:46:23 PM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Aug 8, 2012 5:46:58 PM PDT]

Posted on Aug 9, 2012 7:39:26 AM PDT
Edgar Self says:
On the "Singers" thread I've just fantasized about an operatic festival on nautical themes, with candidates "Cristoforo Colombo", "Vasco da Gama", "Montezuma", "Cortez", "Il Pirata" (and/or "Le Corsair"), "Tristan", anything on Magellan or the Iliad, "Idomeneo", "Otello". "HMS Pinafore", "Pirates of Penzance". How many more are there?

Posted on Aug 9, 2012 7:44:30 AM PDT
Dichterliebe says:
Riders to the Sea, Billy Budd

Posted on Aug 9, 2012 7:53:33 AM PDT
Edgar Self says:
Thianks, Dichterliebe. "Billy Budd", of course. Who wrote "Riders to the Sea"? For the curious, it was Roger Sessions and Graun for "Montezuma".

Posted on Aug 9, 2012 7:58:23 AM PDT
Dichterliebe says:
Piso, Vaughan-Williams wrote 'Riders to the Sea'. I was going to mention 'Florencia en al Amazonas', too, if freshwater ships are allowed to dock here!

Posted on Aug 9, 2012 8:00:34 AM PDT
Dichterliebe says:
By the way, does the libretto of 'Montezuma' center around vengeance, by any chance?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 8:03:40 AM PDT
Edgar Self says:
Yes, but it's seldom mentioned in polite society, and once got Jimmy Carter in trouble, which didn't take much for our only President to survive an attack by a rabbit and go on to win the Nobel rize for carpentry.
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Discussion in:  Classical Music forum
Participants:  22
Total posts:  75
Initial post:  Jul 20, 2012
Latest post:  Aug 9, 2012

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