Customer Discussions > Classical Music forum

Tchaikovsky versus Beethoven


Sort: Oldest first | Newest first
Showing 176-200 of 287 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2011 3:59:21 PM PDT
Edgar Self says:
Don Waits, yeah, I live in Chicago, but don't tell anyone. Sure, there's the CSO and several other first-class suburban and university orchestras to choose from. In fact we get almost as much music in a year as New York has in a week or two. But you have your records, and that's still one of the best ways to listen.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2011 4:28:52 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 18, 2011 6:54:00 PM PDT
John Ruggeri says:
OMAR -OMAR

What to do? - What to do? These ancient ears aint been hearin no more better symfony than Ludowig's
"6th ala the Pasteurized symfony" Am I serious?

I am also thinking Tiecouggski'w operas "Hugeen O -Neign" and "Qyeen of Spaydes" "Joan's Arc" and "Mazeppa" am musch more better than "Ludy's "'FI- Delli eeo". My tutor must be readin to me the rong criticaliaites. If I lernt to reed anda rite on myself will my stuped Opinoins defer?
.
Is the best critiks to be a reeding are Sir Base Cleff and Lady Hi Tesseetura?

I guess the MA after my name stands for 'MISTAKEN ACQUISITION"

Regards-John

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2011 4:37:38 PM PDT
Donald Waits says:
Piso, my old grad school mate is just stepping down as the chancellor of the School of the Art Institute of Chicago. He had been the head of the School for many years and they named a building after him. We had not seen each other since 1968! We hooked up again just a couple of years ago. He and his wife will be coming down to New Orleans in December...I can't wait. I used to pity tourists who came to Manhattan for just the week-end and could not make up their minds what to do or where to go. As you say, there is so MUCH music, art, theater, and architecture on that little island. I miss it terribly. Our symphony in New Orleans doesn't even have a permanent concert hall. At least, as you say, I have my records and a vast DVD collection to make up for the lack of "live" culture. I am rich in jazz, though. In fact, tonight I will step on a couple of stages as a "special guest" vocalist, backed by some of the best musicians in town. In some ways, New Orleans has provided me with a new life: revered old gezzer who sings the standards and is treated like a king. If you ever visit my city, you can get my e-mail address from Zadok. The food, alone, will blow your mind.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2011 4:43:25 PM PDT
John Bennett says:
I'LL PAY THAT ONE. DMP, this is something you might enjoy reading..unless you're already familier with it. Eudard Hanslick, 1825 B. Prague d. inBaden near Vienna, Aug 1904, was probably the most influencial and "fear critic" of all time. Probably his "favourite" composer, tho he too would feel the "lash" occationally, Brahms. But his most commented composer, in the negative of course, was Wagner. "....his violent opposition to the music-drama was a matter of profound conviction, not persnal spite; he in fact wrote a moving trbute after Wagne's death." Wagner hated Hanslick so much that he caricatured him (thus making him immortal in the musical world) in DIE MEISTERSINGERS as Beckmesser. Also, poor Bruckner would write and beg the Emperor of Austia for Hanslick to "go easy" on his works, as anything negative would send poor Anton into a suicidle deprssion.

I remember reading about Washington, D.C. critic's comments about Truman's daugher's recidal and how Truman called him "a s.o.b." and wanted to punch him in the nose after reading his article. Cheers, JB

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2011 5:00:13 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 18, 2011 6:50:06 PM PDT
John Ruggeri says:
As this thread was started by KenOC I will cease this line of dicussion if he so wishes?

More often than not I have listened to a piece of music before reading significant critical articles. Articles and books comparying pieces and or composers have usually been even later. If my reaction is the same as the critic -OKAY
if not, Also OKAY. Who of you changes your mind post facto post AFTER critical response. In my reading I have been
informed of a work/composer not familiar to me. At times I have been on the same page as the author who sent me there and others not so. Do you usually, often, never etc agree with a prior opinion expressed by an Expert [sic].

More to the point of this specific thread , I have NEVER read an article directly comparing Fidelio with any Tchaikovsky's opera. Should I not have an opinon?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2011 5:06:33 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 18, 2011 5:07:32 PM PDT
KenOC says:
John, your courtesy is excessive. He who frees a swallow from its cage knows not where it will fly! Or toothpaste from a tube. Or something.

For people interested in music criticism, I recommend GB Shaw's "Bombardments," available used in hardback for about zero from Amazon resellers. If you don't like it, you can leave it on the coffee table and look erudite.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2011 5:06:39 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 18, 2011 5:08:06 PM PDT
DMP says:
Hanslick is famous for being almost completely wrong about the composers of his day. Eduard Hanslick called Tchaikovsky's violin concerto "long and pretentious" and said that it "brought us face to face with the revolting thought that music can exist which stinks to the ear." Hanslick also wrote that "the violin was not played but beaten black and blue," as well as labeling the last movement "odorously Russian." Since then of course, it is one of the most recorded, performed, and beloved of violin concertos in addition to being one of the best known. It is also considered to be among the most technically difficult works for violin.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2011 5:08:55 PM PDT
KenOC says:
DMP says: Eduard Hanslick called Tchaikovsky's violin concerto "long and pretentious" and said that it "brought us face to face with the revolting thought that music can exist which stinks to the ear". Hanslick also wrote that "the violin was not played but beaten black and blue," as well as labeling the last movement "odorously Russian."

Well DMP, are you saying Hanslick was wrong?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2011 5:09:08 PM PDT
John Bennett says:
Ken, I'd like to share this with you and the other "loopers" in this Beethoven & Tschaikowsky discussion. Here in Australia the AUSTRALISN BROADCASTING CORPERATION Classic F.M. radio every few years has this 100 countdown of "favoites". I've participated in three of the four and the last three were favoite in chamber music, concertos and most favorite music ever! Schubert's TROUT won first in chamber music, Beethoven's Imperor concerto won, and Beethoven's Symp. 9th won the last. When ABC do this they give listeners 3 months to submit their favoites and comments, they take phone messages, tweets, texts plus online emails. They start about 9a.m. Saturday and end about mid noon the following Monday. Quite an experance, that's how I got on facebook.

Cheers, JB

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2011 5:18:23 PM PDT
He also said: "Puccini's music is not as good as it sounds"

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2011 5:24:08 PM PDT
John Bennett says:
Omar, what you comment on I agree whole-heartedly but there are many out there think Mozart is SUPREME. BEETHOVEN'S my God!

cheers JB

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2011 5:30:38 PM PDT
KenOC says:
John, we have "Classical Countdowns" here in the USA too, although less effort goes into them and genres of music are lumped together. The winner is always either Beethoven's 9th or (gasp) the Four Seasons.

Posted on Sep 18, 2011 5:33:38 PM PDT
Ypres says:
I think in these parts it's Pachelbel's canon.

Posted on Sep 18, 2011 5:34:23 PM PDT
Donald Waits says:
I sink shum of us has been into the Edleweiss today. Yoursh trulee is 'bout to ketchup, 'scuse me, catsup, uh, catch-up. She y'all later.....

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2011 5:36:53 PM PDT
DMP says:
Well, KenOC--what do you think I think? Of course he was wrong. Sad, really--poor Hanslick's historical legacy in the world is to be known as a completely clueless idiot.

Posted on Sep 18, 2011 6:39:44 PM PDT
well there is a fair amount of circumstantial evidence that Wagner based Beckmesser from 'meistersinger' on Hanslick. I do think it was a satire of critics in general, of course, there are those who think Wagner based it on evil jewish stereotypes. I think there may be a ethnic component-but I don't think that was the 'driving' force.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2011 6:44:12 PM PDT
KenOC says:
There is an interesting discussion of the whole Hanslick/Beckmesser issue in Wiki's article on Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg. As usual, nothing is crystal clear!

Posted on Sep 18, 2011 8:28:09 PM PDT
well it is sort of a side issue here.
I still maintain that for the three composers mentioned in the same breath as hanslick goes
wagner>brahms>tchaikovsky.. but I don't think that order pleases anybody but me.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2011 8:33:54 PM PDT
Hinch says:
>why do we, or most of us, value Beethoven more highly?<

I don't. I've always been partial to Tchaikovsky. I like, and own, more of his work than any other classical composer.

I can't really give a technical or "intellectual" explanation. I just know what I like.

Posted on Sep 18, 2011 8:39:34 PM PDT
was it john R or john S who was using food analogies a while back?

well beethoven is a great prime rib and tchaikovsky is a great piece of cherry chocolate cheesecake.
how does one really compare the two?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2011 8:55:39 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 18, 2011 8:56:09 PM PDT
KenOC says:
F Hinchelson says, "I don't. I've always been partial to Tchaikovsky."

This calls into question my assertion that "we, or most of us, value Beethoven more highly." Proof is needed. Our last "greatest composer" game:

1 - Beethoven
2 - Bach
3 - Mozart
4 - Haydn
5 - Mahler
6 - Schubert
7 - Brahms
8 - Stravinsky
9 - Handel
10 - Tchaikovsky

Apologies to DMP.

Posted on Sep 18, 2011 9:06:58 PM PDT
Think the order of the VC game, though, was

Beethoven
Brahms
Shostakovich (1)
Tchaikovsky

Which jibes very well with the "greatest composer" list once one realizes that "Mahler" is an abbreviation / placeholder for "Shostakovich."

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2011 9:12:40 PM PDT
John Bennett says:
Yes, Ken, the Four Seasons gets a good sounding here as well. I was hoping for B's Missa Solemnis over that of his 9th...which is getting performed and broadcasted too much...granted the Missa is fiendishly difficult to perform and the demands are most arduous...but Mine Gott WHAT MUSIC!!

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2011 9:13:26 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 18, 2011 9:20:30 PM PDT
John Ruggeri says:
Pal

Food analogies and comparisons are always on the tip of my tongue. But these -2- giants IMO are buffets of musical compositions.

Regards-John

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 18, 2011 9:19:15 PM PDT
KenOC says:
MZ, your memory is unimpaired (I keep details of ALL the results). But I question whether even the redoubtable Mahler could have written a VC as great as Shostakovich's.
[Add comment]
Add your own message to the discussion
To insert a product link use the format: [[ASIN:ASIN product-title]] (What's this?)
Prompts for sign-in
 


 

This discussion

Discussion in:  Classical Music forum
Participants:  39
Total posts:  287
Initial post:  Sep 9, 2011
Latest post:  Sep 26, 2011

New! Receive e-mail when new posts are made.
Tracked by 3 customers

Search Customer Discussions