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Customer Discussions > Comics forum

Greatest Comic Book Animated Series Of All Time


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Showing 1-25 of 37 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Feb 17, 2013 7:26:52 PM PST
Jeff Marzano says:
What's your favorite animated series that are based on comic book characters ?

I have a hard time differentiating between comic book cartoons and some other ones.

I had been having a re-occurring dream where I was back in my childhood home and I was so happy to find out that various cartoons that I liked as a kid were on TV again. I guess that dream is coming true now for me as I have a lot of them on DVD. The Herculoids was released on DVD recently. A lot of the other Hanna Barbara cartoons are available now also such as Space Ghost, Frankenstein Junior, and Birdman (the forgotten hero).

Just this past week on the Boom channel they aired what is probably my all time favorite episode of Johnny Quest: The Curse Of Anubis.

Here's some of my all time favorite series. I can't decide on which of the following is the best:

Hanna Barbera's Fantastic 4 From the 60s which I don't think has been released on DVD. I was able to obtain it from a sort of bootleg DVD guy who created the disks by recording the episodes from TV. I think they finally shut that guy down.

Spider-Man - The '67 Collection (6 Volume Animated Set)

Jonny Quest - The Complete First Season

Bugs Bunny And His Pals

The following cartoons air on a TV station called TheHub. These are good also:

Batman: The Animated Series, Volume One (DC Comics Classic Collection)

Superman - The Animated Series, Volume One (DC Comics Classic Collection)

Batman Beyond: Season One (DC Comics Classic Collection)

Posted on Feb 18, 2013 12:03:30 PM PST
Art Franklin says:
The Avengers: Volume One - Heroes Assemble! (Marvel Super Hero Collection)

I especially loved Season 1, which had an overarching 26-episode story arc structure that was propped up by smaller story-arcs. Season 2 was less elegant but I still enjoyed it. I'm sad they apparently have scrapped the series to make way for a version of Avengers that more closely matches the movieverse.

The Venture Bros.: Season One

Venture Brothers may be comedic, but it's still one of the best-written animated series. The continuity is great and hilarious, proving that classic sitcoms miss the boat when they "reboot" every episode. I count it as comic-book based, because the parodies of the Midnight Sons and Fantastic Four are so awesome (unlike in-house parodies such as Mini Marvels or Super Hero Squad) that the characterizations actually inform how I read the REAL characters. Also, the well-placed epic action scenes keep the show from feeling like a simple comedy.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 19, 2013 5:54:48 AM PST
Jeff Marzano says:
I hadn't heard of those before. I'm always looking for good cartoon sets since I give them to my nieces and nephews for Christmas.

I felt The Simpsons has its moments, at least when I used to watch it back in the late 90s. The Simpsons is the longest running animated series in history I think, having surpassed The Flintstones some time ago.

I follow along with some of the Hollywood movies more for nostalgic purposes. I saw the latest Spiderman, The Avengers, Captain America, Green Lantern, and The Dark Knight Rises at the theater. I think out of all of the movies I like the Hulk series the best.

The Dark Knight trilogy is very aptly named I would say. That movie was very dark with that Bane guy who breaks peoples' necks and it sounds real. They set the tone right at the beginning with Bane giving that guy a one way blood transfusion.

I hadn't seen the first two Dark Knight movies and don't follow the Batman comic books so I was pretty much lost trying to understand the plot. They seemed to be getting into very deep psychological issues with Bruce being down in that weird dungeon with those guys chanting.

I just noticed I have an episode of Batman The Animated Series recorded where Lois Lane was getting romantically involved with Bruce Wayne. They draw Lois Lane so beautiful in the Superman animated series.

I guess I stopped following the Catwoman comic book right around the time Batman was getting involved with Catwoman. They pick that up in The Dark Knight Rises.

The Dark Knight Rises already has 2,643 customer reviews on amazon. I don't recall ever seeing a product with that many reviews before.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 19, 2013 8:22:57 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 19, 2013 8:26:59 AM PST
Art Franklin says:
Hi Jeff, if you only saw Dark Knight Rises then I highly recommend watching the first two when you're in the mood. I thought the 3rd movie was the most messy of the three. All were long movies, but the first two felt epic while the 3rd one felt like they were trying to stuff a lot in as well as say goodbye/grant cameos to a lot of characters. So yes I can imagine it being confusing!

If you haven't seen Venture Brothers, you are in for a treat as a Johnny Quest fan! The entire theme of the show is boy adventurers, and the psychological ramifications of being thrust into danger at a young age. Johnny Quest himself makes appearances from time to time in his adulthood.

Posted on Feb 19, 2013 8:47:47 AM PST
Jeff Marzano says:
Interesting. I recall seeing that Adult Swim TV show back a few years ago but I didn't start watching it. Did Stan Lee create some adult themed shows for this series ?

Stan Lee is an interesting guy. He's knowledgeable about many subjects such as history, mythology, and literature and he wove those traditional themes into his stories. The Incredible Hulk was a combination of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein and Dr Jekyll / Mr. Hyde. Strangely the Jekyll and Hyde story is based on a real person.

Going back quite a few years Stan Lee won his court case against Marvel Comics. Up until then Marvel was paying him a straight million dollars a year but Marvel was still the legal owner of all of those characters. But as a result of the legal action Stan is now considered the artistic creator of many of the Marvel heroes. I guess we can only imagine how much money those royalties are worth both now and into the future.

Stan makes cameo appearances in the Marvel movies. Wasn't he friends with Jack Kirby, another legend ?

Good idea about that Venture Brothers series. I'll probably check it out. For me Johnny Quest is like a childhood friend and I have a tattoo of Johnny which is sort of strange I guess.

Yes that Dark Knight Rises movie moved into a lot of deep psychological issues. To me it seemed like they were trying to take things a little too seriously which is dangerous for a movie about comic book characters I would say.

I think it was at the premier showing of this movie when that lunatic got dressed up as The Joker and went into the movie theater and massacred all those people.

It looks like they made many episodes of Batman The Animated Series. Some of those are very interesting. I can see why one of the Batman comic books is called Detective Comics. They have so many stories and characters to pull from. Some of those stories involve sophisticated themes about things like time and mythology. There's an episode I like called Fire From Olympus where this guy goes off the deep end and thinks he's Zeus.

I saw a guy on TV who works at DC comics who said they get a lot of their ideas from mythology. Wonder Woman is a mythological being.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 19, 2013 10:46:22 AM PST
Art Franklin says:
"Stan makes cameo appearances in the Marvel movies. Wasn't he friends with Jack Kirby, another legend ? "

Stan Lee is an odd bird. I think he always wanted to be famous and his dream has come true as he is one of the oldest working actors (besides movie cameos he does quite a bit of voice work in video games and cartoons such as Super Hero Squad and Ultimate Spider-Man where he plays parodies of himself). It's debatable how much writing he did vs Jack Kirby and even for how long they were friends. Jack Kirby fans tend to get quite vehement on the subject and many are angry with Stan. It's all fascinating but I'm of the opinion that there was a creative chemistry between the two of them (not to mention that Spider-Man was created with Steve Ditko and was an excellent character from the beginning).

I still have yet to see much of the Batman Animated series or the Superman one. But I do have
Justice League: The Complete Series - this is an excellent box set. The first set of DVDs has a Justice League show that has many 3-episode storylines which create room for depth and character development. Then they revamped the show to become Justice League Unlimited. The stories in Unlimited are often simpler, but it's enjoyable because they introduce a huge roster of characters and team-ups.

"I saw a guy on TV who works at DC comics who said they get a lot of their ideas from mythology. Wonder Woman is a mythological being. "

To differentiate between the two biggest comic companies, I generalize that Marvel tends more towards science fiction and DC tends more towards magic. Marvel's characters tend to be adventuring scientists or engineers or they have mutated genes in a sci-fi theme of exaggerated evolution. DC's characters might be more often magic or mythological, and even if they have a sci-fi origin (alien from outer space) the focus is less upon their alien nature than upon their "magical" powers.

A good example of this is flight. Early Marvel characters seldom flew, and if they did there was a pseudo-science explanation (Human Torch). More often they leapt really far, like Hulk or Thor (technically a magic guy who threw his hammer and hung on hehe). DC characters were the first to really fly around without much explanation. When Superman catches a plane in midair and halts its momentum, what is he pushing against exactly as he clenches his legs? Magic :-)

It's interesting to compare demographics of their main teams. Avengers (movie lineup): 1 scientist, 1 engineer, 1 guy given powers by a scientist, 2 characters that rely on skill and gadgets, and 1 mythological character that is alien to our planet. Justice League (cartoon lineup): 3 aliens, 1 human empowered by an alien agency, 1 mythological character, and 1 character that relies on skill and gadgets, and 1 character that I'm not sure how to categorize (Is the Speed Force that empowers Flash pseudo-science or magic? or both?) More than half of the Justice League are from civilizations alien to that which they protect, as opposed to only Thor in Avengers.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 19, 2013 11:41:59 AM PST
Jeff Marzano says:
When I used to go to the comic book store I got the impression that DC had some books that are geared towards a more adult, mature audience. The Sandman and Hellblazer come to mind.

To me Batman is in that grey area that could appeal to adults as much as kids whereas guys like Spiderman and the X Men might appeal more to kids.

I wouldn't exactly call The Dark Knight Rises a kid's movie.

As far as Stan Lee, he's living the dream. He' still making tons of money, probably more now than ever before. Every time one of those images gets used on anything from greeting cards to tee shirts to movies Stan gets paid.

I have one of those Justice League DVDs but haven't watched it. That's a good series I agree. It's probably better to watch the DVDs because I think when they show these cartoons on TV they cut little pieces out to cram in more commercials. There should be a law against that.

I was fortunate to have a great comic book store near me when I lived in Poughkeepsie, New York. Then I moved to the Burlington, Vermont area. They did have a comic book shop downtown but it was out of the way for me and I only went a few times.

I used to like to go on the weekend and just study the covers and follow along with a few books. I got to a point where I would buy them mainly for the covers.

Depending on a person's budget comic books can become expensive.

I have some statues also including Catwoman, Spiderman, Dr. Doom, some Superman / Doomsday book ends, and a real piece of Kryptonite enclosed in a glass dome for safety reasons.

I also have a beautiful Gwen Stacy statue. I know the Green Goblin killed her but I should do some research about exactly what happened.

Right now the big thing for me is the tee shirts. I bought my nephew a lot of adult smalls but now he needs a medium. This is going to turn out to be a waste of money I guess.

Crusade Comics put out some beautiful Shi tee shirts over the years. Those are some of my favorites.

What many people don't realize is that Zeus and those others are real as Homer indicates in his Iliad bloodbath story. Those aren't just fictional stories that people made up.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 20, 2013 8:15:05 AM PST
Art Franklin says:
"Depending on a person's budget comic books can become expensive."

I find the real problem is storage! After all, depending upon your budget you can buy as much or as little as you wish. But what do you do with them all? ;-)

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 20, 2013 9:32:55 AM PST
Jeff Marzano says:
Art Franklin says:

[I find the real problem is storage !]

Right good point. Collectors put them in those special bags and boards. There's more cost.

Comic books is one of those things where once people read them they may feel a nostalgic attachment to them that they don't feel for other books.

The digitizing of books is an interesting development. I haven't moved on to the Kindle generation but I probably would if I have to start travelling where carrying physical books around would be an issue like on airplanes.

But right now I still want to hold a physical book that I can highlight and turn back the corners of the pages.

For me a Kindle would also be good for reference books about computers or things like that. I could see reading the paper version but then keeping the electronic version on a Kindle device for things like that.

Are they now selling comic books in digital / electronic format ? I don't read comic books anymore so I don't know. But if I had a comic book store nearby I might start dropping in and picking up a few once in awhile. I feel like just studying the covers gives me a lot of ideas.

The Kindle versions seem to be cheaper also in some cases. I know of some very expensive books that I can't afford so I wish they would digitize them to make them cheaper. These are old books about subjects like alchemy and Leonardo Da Vinci. But I guess the people who own those books might now want to digitize them for that very reason.

Well anyway I assume they're saving a lot of resources with those Kindles. There's the paper for the book itself plus the costs of shipping plus the storage space on both ends.

Probably in the future your gigantic collection of comic books will be converted into something you can store in a ring on your finger if you even need to store it anywhere. It's getting to the point where everything will be stored in one gigantic data bank in the sky.

Just out of curiosity how many comic books do you own right now ?

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 20, 2013 10:13:01 AM PST
Art Franklin says:
"Just out of curiosity how many comic books do you own right now ? "

Alright, here's my history: read comics as a kid but couldn't imagine buying them because I blew through them so fast. I was more into novels. Fell off completely. Then, about 6 years ago I got into the City of Heroes massively multiplayer game. This got me interested in comics again. Then I bought some HeroClix, but I knew only 10% or so of the characters. So I started collecting comics to fuel ideas.

Years later, the interest has snowballed. Like you get ideas from the covers, I get ideas from the comics and I come up with fun scenarios and custom games to play with friends. And I've found that the comics are enjoyable to re-read (whereas I rarely re-read novels).

So a couple of years ago I got hit by a nasty flood where water literally flooded into my (rented) house, and my comic collection was on the floor in shortboxes. I estimate I lost about $3,000 in comics going off of cover price. All the Trade Paperbacks I had turned into papier-mache. The bags and boards actually worked miraculously considering the collection got submerged (boxes were floating about). We spent the next few days tossing ruined items but hanging the comics to dry so they wouldn't get moldy. Of the bagged and boarded ones, I lost 2 boxes worth. The rest were either in OK condition or badly warped but still readable.

So now I bag everything! Supposedly the short boxes hold 150-200 comics each and I have... 8? So I guess I have about 750-1,000 actual comic books. Then I have quite a few collections - I still have some softcover smaller collections but possibly... 50 or so hardcovers? So I'm guessing I have more than 2,000 comics including the collections.

They do indeed publish comics electronically, but I can't imagine enjoying that format. I'm not even crazy about the Kindle idea, although I see the worth. I just like holding old-fashioned books. Here's what I don't understand about the Kindle: The pages change based upon the font-size you are reading, correct? So if you're sharing a book and you reference "Page 307", does that mean anything? Is my 307 the same as yours if we have different reading preferences?

I can't think about this issue without remembering Isaac Asimov's short story "The Fun They Had", in which he predicted the Kindle. In it, schoolchildren find a paper book and they are shocked and confused that it has pages, and doesn't scroll or talk.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 4, 2013 9:10:48 AM PST
Jeff Marzano says:
Art Franklin says:

[In it, schoolchildren find a paper book and they are shocked and confused that it has pages, and doesn't scroll or talk.]

The transferring of books into electronic, digital format is an interesting development that will have profound implications.

In the past you would see stores that sold rare books. Those books were rare because only a few copies were published or at least still existed.

But once a book has been digitized it is just a file on a server. As you said there's good and bad points but the good point is they are at least preserved forever. Any book that has been transferred would no longer be considered rare and it will never go out of print. The price often drops dramatically.

This has already happened with music CDs. The music CD industry has been completely transformed and more or less put out of business except for the few stragglers like me who don't know how to download those MP3 files.

What we are seeing now is the capturing and preservation of valuable knowledge for future generations.

That's some story with your comic books getting flooded.

What are you planning on doing with all of this knowledge you have learned about comic books ?

I'm with you when I read a book I want to hold the book in my hands which I highlight and fold the corners down on the pages I want to go back and review.

But I can see the advantages of the Kindle technology. There's the savings of the paper, the shipping, and storage on both ends. Plus the risk of the book getting lost or damaged is gone unless there's a nuclear holocaust and all the computers in the world get destroyed.

It will be interesting to see what happens if somebody gets copies of all of those digital books and puts them on a web site where people can download them for free like they did with music. That's probably illegal in the United States but not other countries. It was supposedly illegal with music at first also but their attempts to enforce those laws, if they even existed, were all in vain.

Posted on Mar 4, 2013 5:43:42 PM PST
And now for something completely different (and totally awesome)

The Maxx: The Complete Series

In reply to an earlier post on May 30, 2013 12:49:56 AM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Mar 4, 2014 11:04:27 AM PST]

Posted on May 30, 2013 1:42:14 PM PDT
Leon Evelake says:
Well most people are going to say Justice League or Batman both of which had some good episodes and great moments but are overstated.
But Young justice is by far the best animated series based on American superhero comics.
Batman as good as it was at times but had a lot of awkward and crummy episodes jlu was fun but was a completely mixed bag and handled many characters rather poorly.
Young Justice had fantastic art, better fight scenes than any other superhero tv cartoon, was shockingly well wrote, was directed by Greg Wieseman who did the fantastic series gargoyles and had some great stand alone episodes like (cant remember the name) the flash episode. That one episode alone was better than anything ever done with the flash in the other series. And the series used dc history far better they had limits put on who they could use but still managed to created a new dc universe far better than the new 52 and had costume redesigns that made sense and were actually cool. They managed to keep the jsa and had the great takes on characters like captian marvel, dr fate lobo and somehow made black manta cool.

After that I would say its either Batman beyond or superman tha animated series both were more consistently good than the other dc series.

In reply to an earlier post on May 30, 2013 4:23:07 PM PDT
Jeff Marzano says:
Random Reviewer says:

[To me the winner will always be the Justice League: The Complete Series.]

I made a note of your recommendation.

Actually I think I have some of those DVDs around here somewhere but never got around to watching them. I must have seen it on TV and realized it's a good series.

A lot of those tie ins to things that happened in comic books decades ago are going to go over the heads of many viewers today.

But if and when I watch this series I'll remember what you said.

In reply to an earlier post on May 30, 2013 4:30:48 PM PDT
Jeff Marzano says:
Leon Evelake says:

[After that I would say its either Batman beyond or superman tha animated series both were more consistently good than the other dc series.]

Batman Beyond has its moments. For one thing it puts a more human face on Batman in his golden years.

Superman is also good. I'm trying to figure out who that Granny character, Darkseid's friend, is based on. Perhaps the real life woman gangster Ma Barker I don't know.

Although being Darkseid's 'friend' is a mixed bag at best as Granny finds out sometimes.

The Brainiac character in Superman is truly frightening. I don't know if it's the voice or what.

Those are airing on the HUB channel on my cable system right now along with Batman The Animated Series.

Those are all DC characters. I guess Marvel is too busy with their movies.

In reply to an earlier post on May 30, 2013 5:27:04 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 30, 2013 5:31:37 PM PDT
Leon Evelake says:
Man i want a good marvel cartoon but they tend to mess them up.
The old 90s ones were at times good I loved the early hulk episodes as a kid. But ever since they just are not as good as they could be. Wolverine and the x men was at least a good attempt but it was canceled and the set up was not ideal, the little i managed to see of spectacular spiderman was better than I expected (also directed by greg wiseman), ....ultimate spiderman is an abomination.
I want marvel to do what dc did with young justice do a somewhat more serious take that makes good use of the source material, alternating between the overarching plot and stand alone episodes with good art and action.

As far as superman goes there is some stuff that that series does better than the comics they had a good take on the origin, he is powerful but not stupid powerful, supergirl was not from krypton, they updated several villains in ways that worked great and did not over complicate things. But my favorite thing I think was how well they used darksied and the final moment with him was the best single thing ever done with the character.

With batman beyond it seemed much more focused than the other batman series and had some really great episodes. And like you I really enjoyed the look at the older batman he wasn't the annoyingly perfect batgod they would use in the wrote him as in the justice league series. But was much more interesting fallible individual. In justice league they tried too hard to give him stuff to do and make him seem like a massive threat at all times it did not work all the time.

Posted on May 30, 2013 6:45:38 PM PDT
Jeff Marzano says:
Leon Evelake says:

[Man i want a good marvel cartoon but they tend to mess them up.]

I can tell you keep up with the animated series.

To me the oldies are still the best:

Jonny Quest - The Complete First Season

The Fantastic 4 - Hanna Barbera - 60s

Spider-Man - The '67 Collection (6 Volume Animated Set)

The Herculoids: Complete Series (2 Disc)

Space Ghost and Dino Boy: The Complete Series

I was having a re-occurring dream for awhile where I was back at my childhood home and I turned on the TV and there were some new episodes of Johnny Quest, the Herculoids, and other great cartoons that I remembered as a kid. In the dream I was very happy that I found these cartoons that I hadn't seen before.

I guess somehow that dream has come true as I've been able to find most of them on DVD.

Plus as we've been discussing the newer series have their moments.

I'm still recording Johnny Quest on the Boom channel now. I have the DVDs for the original series but I've been recording them plus the new ones they made in the 1980s.

For me Johnny Quest is in a class by itself. Johnny is like a childhood friend. I actually have a Johnny Quest tattoo.

I have similar sentiments about the Hanna Barbera Fantastic 4 series from back in the 60s.

As far as I know the FF series hasn't been released on DVD yet. I was able to order it from a guy on the internet who must have been very knowledgeable about all the Hanna Barbera cartoons. He recorded them off of TV and then created DVDs with menus.

This guy would only accept checks as payment which makes me think what he was going was sort of illegal.

I think he's been shut down now.

In reply to an earlier post on May 31, 2013 12:00:44 AM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Mar 4, 2014 11:04:35 AM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on May 31, 2013 6:16:57 PM PDT
Leon Evelake says:
You say you dont want a debate but do so after going through and saying every praise I had was wrong. Odd way to avoid a debate especially with your condescending ending comment.

" I fail to understand why today's kids can't just say "I enjoyed", or "I thought xxx was great", but always insist on making "What I like is the best and what everyone else says they enjoy is crap" comments."

One I am not a kid I am 28. Two I didnt call anything crap but explained why I think certain ones are better than others. I was vague with my critical comments to try to avoid ticking people off too bad. In fact I praised the other series as much as I criticized them. I by no means hate them Heck the "for the man who has everything" episode is one of my favorite single episodes of all the series.
You on the other hand decided to directly insult the show I liked by going through my positive comments point by point contradicting them far more aggressively. Which is exactly what you complained about later with the quoted comment above. And three I dont see why some people cant look at stuff from their childhood with a critical eye but let nostalgia get in the way. Seriously any time someone says they think young justice is better than previous dc animated series there area couple of fans that have to get all offended. I said they had good and bad parts but you seemed to have focused in on the criticisms only.

" (ironic that YJ aims for the young teen audience"

Sure episodes about a guy that murdered his his little sister for power and buried her in the back yard and implied drug use are totally made for young kids. This was made by greg wiesman who did gargoyles another series noted for being surprisingly dark compared to other cartoons. They tried for the same thing batman, gargoyles, avatar, and even jonny quest did back in the day make it to appeal to the younger and older audiences.
You really didnt watch much of this show did you? There are considerably less weird and goofy episodes in it than the other series. There is really nothing like the wonder woman is turned into a pig episode or they have all been turned into children episodes of jlu or some of the weird batman episodes.
Heck it was rated tv pg which I believe was the same as the last jlu.

"I didn't see the "fantastic art"

How not? it was better animated (as movement and stuff ) and had far better designs. I know some people like tims simple art but it evolved for the worse. It was probably at its best in the early batman or superman but by justice league it had simplified too much all the women had the same body and all the men had shoulders that were like 8 heads wide. Young justice had a variety in design, body shape and nice degree of detail.

" First, BTAS and JL/JLU paved the way for series like YJ."

Not really there were many series before (you could argue that johnny quest paved the way for batman), now those series defiantly helped but giving them all the credit is not accurate. If anything avatar probably had the most to do with it.

" the "better fight scenes" simply weren't"

What ? Did you watch any? The other series just did the usual big, wide swung punches and dramatic fall back, young justice had fight scenes where the characters looked like they knew how to fight and both characters fighting would throw a bunch of different punches, kicks (if they were a kicker) quick dodges all kinds of without cutting too much. The fights were done more like avatar the last airbender, or some of better animated anime series out there like moribito. Go to youtube and look some up.

" "shockingly well wrote"? Wow. Not really"

Again you dont seem to have watched much of it the show was well wrote and had a far more serious tone that recent comic based cartoons like ultimate spiderman, green lantern, the avengers or the last couple batmans.

And

" The few times I bothered to sit and watch it (usually waiting for the far superior GL series) it struck me how similar it was to today's comics, which "

Its nothing like the current dc. I would kill for the current dc to have been done this well.

I know you said you didnt want a debate but come on I had to respond after those comments
Oh Well at least we agree on superman.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 1, 2013 12:06:07 AM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Mar 4, 2014 11:04:43 AM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 2, 2013 8:47:47 PM PDT
Leon Evelake says:
" I will apologize a little for the tone. Truthfully, I have had a few very heated debates on other forums recently and some of it likely trickled into that post. "

Well enough then partial tonal apology accepted.

" No, it wasn't overly harsh on the surface but... what was the point to begin with? Literally 5 people had said what series they liked, with 2 mentioning Justice League, and only the thread author mentioned BTAS. Why the need to mention what you disliked at all..."

I mentioned it because every time people discuss this subject and you mention young justice someone tends to go off on the the fact they think the other dcu stuff if better. It pointed out the ways I thought those series were flawed and how young justice is better. And comparing and contrasting a series to others like it especially previous adaptations of something is a completely valid way to illustrate your point. Like saying that you like the Dark Knight series because it is more down to earth and serious than previous batman films. There is nothing wrong with that.

"especially since you made this comment directly following my post praising the series"

This had nothing to do with it I didn't make my post as a response to anything but the original topic.

" why the need to try to validate opinions by phrasing them as absolutes? ......Say it's *YOUR* favorite, say how *YOU* think it's great

Now thats just nitpicky. It goes without saying that its each persons opinion there is no need to go on elaborating on the fact that its what I think or that people may disagree. You dont see film reviewers do a top ten list and clarify "Blank is in my opinion the best film ever made" (well some do) but many writers are encouraged to use more definitive phrasing because it makes a bigger impact. Though I did at one point write " I would say".

" Why try to invalidate other peoples opinions by making snide little comments on the side then acting offended when you get called out?"

I wasn't trying to invalidate peoples opinions at all and there is nothing snide in the original post. I explained Why I think its better than the other series and that I thought they were more flawed than people give them credit for. Maybe its your previous experiences but You seem to have taken things far too personally.
And what offended me was not being "called out" but that you did the thing you were accusing me of and to a greater degree. When really nothing I said should have offended anybody jeff marazano certainly didn't take issue with it.

" Artwork is in the eye of the beholder. YJ struck me as very Manga-esque, not entirely dissimilar from the recent Marvel animated flops Marvel Anime: Iron Man - Complete Series, Wolverine (Marvel Animated Series). It was ok but not really my thing. On this comparison though, I would be truly interested to hear your thoughts: the quality of those series, whether you think they bear similarities."

Its an odd thing the marvel anime things should have been really good but they were really odd, they mixed in anime stereotypes that were not needed, and were kind of over the top instead of having a more subtle approach that would work better. That said I think the first episode or 2 of wolverine (design aside) was like some of the classic stories and blade had a good episode or 2.

Art wise was a mixed bag. The art was done by madhouse and they tend to have art that sometimes looks good in stills but is kind of stiff at times. Wolverine had some really crummy designs and some really awkward fights at the end but had a really well animated bokken fight in the 2nd or 3rd episode. X men was really odd some face shots were great then other parts would look really odd and the villains look just wrong.
SO I guess the way to put it was they looked like they could have been better but they could not maintain the good elements consistently. Young justice while more simple was able to keep the quality more consistent and animated movement better.
That said they could do better if they used a somewhat more realistic style like Baccano had.

" And I'm still not sure how YJ was so superior in this respect: I didn't notice any more dramatic variations between character builds than I did in JLU."

They did, but perhaps it was more apparent across multiple episodes. The flash for example is considerably smaller than other characters and has more of a runners build batman is bigger but not as big as superman or Icon, captian marvel had more epper bulk than superman. But the cooler thing was that as they got older (the series covered several years) some of them changed. Superman for example having aged and become somewhat more powerful bulked up a decent amount after the time skip.
In the jlu batman and superman heck most the dudes had pretty much the same built. Look at the episode where green arrow is working out the guys was freaking massive. Now if I remember the falsh was a bit smaller and so was the question and luthor (sometimes) but not by much. It drove me nuts back when they were premiering.

" Brings me to: while you call me out for not watching YJ, I'd be interested to know exactly how many BTAS and/or JL/JLU you watched to form your opinion...If you watched all the episodes as some weird kind of penance or to prove a point even though you weren't enjoying them... well that's your fault and no one else's."

I watched them growing up as they premiered and then bought some of them on dvd (jlu) when cheap and re-watched much of batman and superman on the hub recently.
You seem to be under the impression I hate them. I said several times I like them or at least parts of them. As just a few examples I liked the episodes with the question and the ones wrote by gail simone and warren ellis and loved the "for the man who has everything" one. But there was always stuff that bugged me in terms of the world, character development and writing. I was bummed out that it ended when it did because it had improved jlu was considerably better and the previous justice league. But its not all or nothing I can still enjoy something and be highly critical of it or think its overstated.
Like the avengers film I enjoyed it because it was fun to have the characters together and the final third of the film was fun that said the rest of the movie is kind of a mess.

" Your comment about how apparently murdering a sibling and burying her in the backyard = good, mature storytelling "

I didnt say that at all. I mentioned 2 examples to illustrate how your comment about it being just aimed at younger kids was in no way accurate.

The good story telling came from the interesting use of dc source material, interesting plots built around previously uninteresting characters (black manta, sports master) and well wrote character development. Now even thought its not what I said there the implication of speedys drug use did help develop him. and the murdered sister thisng worked well for making that episode nice and creepy.

" but not sure how Green Lantern, or any of the other DCAU series didn't have a serious tone. Serious doesn't always have to equate to grotesque, violent, morbid or sordid, and an occasional witty line or lighter themed episode can help alleviate the tension of a long, dramatic story... doesn't make the over-arching story any less serious."

I said " had a far more serious tone " thats not to say they were not at times serious. They all had their moments heck even superman had an episode where they showed a guy in a gas chamber and he actually was executed. Like the others it has humorous and stand alone episodes But over all young justice was a more serious and focused series.

"Haven't seen Ultimate Spiderman, the Avengers or the recent Batman series,"

Your lucky ultimate spiderman is nothing but family guy style cutaway gags, the last batman was weird and really really goofy with the occasional song about how batmans better in bed than other superheros thrown in (not joking look up birds of prey song on youtube) and the new batman has alfred as a secret agent and batman fighting some sort of pig man.

"
As for the fight scenes... to each their own, once again. I thought Green Lantern had some absolutely epic fight scenes ('... In Love and War' was a favorite, though I could easily name a half-dozen episodes that impressed me... Seriously, sit and watch 'Tabula Rasa', 'A Better World', 'Divided We Fall', or 'Destroyer' and tell me those aren't quality fight sequences, especially since they were done 10 years ago... though by all means feel free to recommend particular YJ eps I should check out and I'd be happy to (within reason- if I have to buy a whole season to get the gist that proves my point in another way)."

Well I dont have series bluray set yet so I dont have all the names or examples handy.
But working from whats still on my dvr (so not necessarily the best of the series) and mostly from the last part of season 2.
Ep summit season 2 about 2/3 way through not my favorite but some cool stuff, no name for some reason ep 26 of season 1 particularly the batman robin part. They do the usual quick cuts and all the conventional stuff also have the longer shots with a multiple attacks and dodges being shown before being cut. More like a samurai movie where they keep the one shot showing a great deal of the fight or all of the fight from a somewhat greater distance compared to what many American movies do where they make many cuts.
complications season 2 ep 24 about half way through.

These are not all really stand alone episodes though so dont try to watch the whole episode out of context. If you do want a good single episode to watch try bloodlines its a nice example of a (mostly) stand alone episode. And was wrote by peter david so thats cool along with fact it basically just a flash episode but they potray his powers far better than previous stuff tended to.

Really even when the series premiered I thought the fights in stuff like jlu were less than great sure the supreman vs darksied fight had some cool moments but other shows from before that had already done much better heck jackie chan adventures of all thing pulled off some great ones.
And if you want other examples of what i think are well done animated fights look up the ones from shows like moribito guardian of the spirit (great show in general), baccano, that superman/shazam short dc did, some from the dark knight returns animated movies, the boondocks of all things, cowboy bebop (the movie has some great ones), or birdy the might for a good superpowered example. Or rent sword of the stranger just watch the whole movie its great.

"but having a character sacrifice themselves for someone to save their homeworld apparently isn't seriously unless they bury someone in the backyard or use drugs while they're doing it?:P /sarcasm)"

Kind of random while talking about fights but Young justice had some examples of heroic self sacrifice as well one was even a homage to crisis on infinite earths.

Posted on Jun 3, 2013 12:35:36 PM PDT
The entire Timverse minus GL,
Greg Weisman stuff,
Fleischer Superman still amazing what they did back then with that,
DC Showcase including catwoman,
The Maxx,
Spawn,
Earths Mightiest Hero's Avengers and...
MF'n Wonder Woman movie!

Honarable Mention
The other DC animated movies
Silver Surfer just for the art work
X-men
Spiderman Animated series,

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 3, 2013 12:44:03 PM PDT
Jeff Marzano says:
Barzai the wise says:

[Spiderman Animated series]

Which one ?

Posted on Jun 3, 2013 6:14:04 PM PDT
90's
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Initial post:  Feb 17, 2013
Latest post:  Jun 26, 2013

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