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buy LX5 now or wait for a "potential" LX7 announcement mid July?


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Showing 26-50 of 58 posts in this discussion
Posted on Jun 30, 2012 6:35:32 PM PDT
daniel stern says:
how do you like fuji x100? would b excellent for B&W, manual focus ability- a lot of manual abilities.... of course the cost is 3x of lumix LX5....really nice OVW-

Posted on Jun 30, 2012 6:37:51 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 30, 2012 6:39:21 PM PDT
daniel stern says:
Advantages of the Panasonic DMC-LX5 over Fuji x100

Much better wide angle 24 mm vs 35 mm

More than 30% better wide angle
Image stabilization Lens vs None

Helps eliminate blur caused by small camera movements
Much better macro capability 1 cm vs 10 cm

Focus on subjects 10x closer to the lens
Larger screen 3.0" vs 2.8"

Around 10% larger screen
Smaller 109x65x42 mm vs 127x75x54 mm

More than 40% smaller
Less startup delay 2300 ms vs 3200 ms

Around 30% less delay when turning on
Longer battery life 400 shots vs 300 shots

More than 30% more shots per battery charge
Significantly cheaper $359.00 vs $1,186.00

The best price we've seen is $827 cheaper (3.3x less)
Slightly less shutter lag 310 ms vs 403 ms

More than 20% less delay when taking photos
Thinner 1.7" vs 2.1"

More than 20% thinner
Significantly longer exposures 60s vs 30s

2x longer exposures
Shoots slightly faster 6 fps vs 5 fps

20% faster continuous shooting

Posted on Jun 30, 2012 6:40:41 PM PDT
daniel stern says:
Advantages of the Fujifilm X100 over Lumix LX5:

Much better image quality 73.0 vs 41.0

Around 80% better image quality
Better color depth 22.9 bits vs 19.6 bits

Distinguishes 3.3 more bits of color
Much larger sensor APS-C 23.6x15.8mm vs 1/1.7" 8.3x6.2mm

More than 7x larger sensor
More dynamic range 12.4 EV vs 10.8 EV

1.6 f-stops more dynamic range
Significantly lower noise at high ISO 1,001 ISO vs 132 ISO

The X100 has excellent image quality 2.9 f-stops higher ISO than the DMC-LX5
Better maximum light sensitivity 6,400 ISO vs 3,200 ISO

The X100's maximum light sensitivity is 1 f-stop better
Has a CMOS-family sensor CMOS vs CCD

CMOS-family sensors often produce better quality images
Has a viewfinder Tunnel vs None

A viewfinder can help save battery life by keeping the screen turned off
Higher true resolution 11 MP vs 10 MP

Capture more than 10% more detail in your photos

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 30, 2012 7:38:13 PM PDT
Only if you can SEE the LCD...

Eye-level finders are ALWAYS designed to project an image at infinity -- for those wearing corrective glasses, infinity is the "normal" distance prescription. That means a straight-through viewing stance, no problems with near/far sightedness (which are relatively fixed problems which still permit wide range of focus), nor old-age reduction in focus range (where the eye physically can not focus beyond a narrow range of distances)

For me -- that means viewing something over four feet away (actually, I have a split prescription, my right eye is set for infinity distance, my left lens is set for computer usage -- 18-24 inches away [arms length]; my sunglasses, being outdoor/daylight are set for both eyes at infinity; my reading glasses are set for 12-15 inch distance).

Don't suggest bifocals, since that requires the painful act of tilting my head backwards AND trying to look "at my feet" at the same time.

No matter what you say, a three point support (hand on right end, hand on bottom, and cheek to back) will always be steadier than two hands held at any distance in front.

How many commercials ever show a LCD user holding the camera closer than 18 inches?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 30, 2012 8:32:20 PM PDT
daniel stern says:
We agree on the OVF. Real options without over buying is Nikon p7100/fuji x10/Canon G series/to be announced Lumix LX7/Lumix G series

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 1, 2012 9:25:57 AM PDT
EdM says:
"Holding the camera with bent arms can be as steady as up to the eye as has been proven years ago."

There you go again. I am aware of no such "proof". Depending on the lens in use, etc., I can handhold a DSLR, perhaps as long as ~1/3 sec., using a good cheek support for the camera, with elbows against the body. No way is bent elbows/LCD viewing equal to DSLR against the cheek for stability. It is similar in concept to rifle marksmanship, with snugging the rifle stock firmly into the shoulder, and then using relaxation technique so there is no jerk when the trigger [button] is pulled [pushed].

One must have a firm, fixed base, and bent elbows just does not form a fixed base for a camera that must be help out to view the rear LCD to compose and focus, e.g. Knowledgeable people in the UK, e.g., know this. Compare:

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/camera-shake.htm

"Brace yourself and your camera. This might include leaning up against a wall, kneeling or sitting, or using the viewfinder instead of the rear LCD (since the camera gets braced against your face)..."

Posted on Jul 1, 2012 2:13:43 PM PDT
JCUKNZ says:
EDM ....yes I am afraid even a good site like CambridgeinColour [partly] follows the mythology.
The point is that where you hold the camera is only part of the story. How you press the trigger being far more important in the scale of things. 'Bracing against the face' is just one of the sugestions by CiC ... as if the face was a stable thing LOL. The bent arm is one of the basis's of image stabilisation.

Not to worry though since millions of successful photos are being taken with LCD viewers and bent arms. But the 'old school' do keep on promoting their fancies.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 1, 2012 6:12:09 PM PDT
daniel stern says:
My two cents- in addition, for framing the correct content the view from an OVF would be more insightful to make creative choices versus viewing from a LCD while maintaining a stable view.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 1, 2012 6:32:38 PM PDT
Les Schmader says:
You've never used a digital camera, have you?

Posted on Jul 1, 2012 7:56:43 PM PDT
daniel stern says:
to answer your question Les- 1-maybe you missed my comment in this thead- "The existing Lumix LX5 or potentially new LX7 will get my skills where I want them to be on a digital camera- my last camera was a Nikon N70 film- digital is new to me and different than where I am. < 1year on the Lumix will get me knowledgeable enough to then look at new options... BTW I mainly shoot only in B&W....." 2- many years on the N70 and on a Contax - I know film cameras and to really answer your question I have a really good eye- I should of said: "for me framing the correct content the view from an OVF would be more insightful to make creative choices versus viewing from a LCD while maintaining a stable view".... thanks

Posted on Jul 2, 2012 3:04:20 PM PDT
JCUKNZ says:
Your argument is faulty Daniel becuase we do not know if the camera is properly supported or not.
Since your experience is only with an SLR you obviously cannot equate the LCD with the ground glass screen of a MF or LF camera as I do.... what is missing in the modern world is the black cloth to avoid sunlight on the screen :-) Bent arms is not as good as a good tripod but many tripods in current use are not good.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 2, 2012 3:44:33 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 2, 2012 3:45:35 PM PDT
daniel stern says:
Thats nice. And this all does not matter because I will but a camera with an OVF in addition to having an EVF - so spewing theories to dispute CambridgeinColour or not is irrelevant to what I will buy. Your remarks remind me of when over hearing two artist friends of mine debating on what oil paint use's the "finest pigments". Neither one of them could paint. I am sure you can connect the dots of my metaphorical story. Thank you once again for your earlier input- Good Luck.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 2, 2012 6:20:42 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 2, 2012 6:38:03 PM PDT
Neo Lee says:
You've been a little confused between OVF, EVF and LCD since the first post.

OVF is that optical viewfinder found in SLR and DSLR. It uses mirrors and prism to direct light out from the lens onto the user eye.

Like OVF, EVF requires you to press your eye against the eyecup the see. The difference is that, with EVF, light from lens hits the sensor and the camera displays the image on that tiny LCD in the viewfinder. To allow your eye to focus on that tiny LCD, EVF has tiny eyepiece lenses between the LCD and your eye. You can find these in Sony SLT cameras, Sony NEX 7, Nikon 1 V1 and 4/3 cameras. You could confuse others when you refer to EVF as an OVF.

LCD is entirely different thing. It is external and larger than EVF. You don't need to press your eye against the eyecup to see. Although it's electronic, LCD is not an EVF. You can find this on all electronic compact cameras. You could confuse others when you refer to the LCD as an EVF.

Then there is Optical-Tunnel Viewfinder found in some compact cameras. What you see in this type of viewfinder is not what you will get, as what you see is not out from the main lens of the camera.

Posted on Jul 2, 2012 8:03:46 PM PDT
daniel stern says:
Neo- You are correct. The Optical Viewfinder is a priority for me in addition to all digital camera's LCD, a lot of good camera's do not give you that option unless you adding an External VF in the hot shoe like the Lumix LX5. The Fuji X100 I looked at had a beautiful hybrid viewfinder that gives you the ability to choose either and by using the Optical VF the majority of the shot information (ISO, aperture etc.) that you see on the LCD but without having to take your eye off of the OVF to focus on composing shot.....

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 2, 2012 8:18:28 PM PDT
"""
You've been a little confused between OVF, EVF and LCD since the first post.
"""

Unfortunately, your explanation doesn't help that much either...

Your "optical-tunnel" is still an "optical" viewfinder. So is the system used on true rangefinder cameras, Single-lens Reflex, and Twin-lens reflex... But TLR is seldom an EYE-level finder. EVFs are eye-level finders, but not optical finders. An LCD panel is neither eye-level nor optical.

Of all of these, SLR optical finders and EVFs use the shooting lens as the viewing lens. EVFs suffer from calibration -- the display does not reflect reality, but rather what ever representation the makers have programmed (brightness and contrast, saturation...), and the inherent power drain to use them. True optical finders, of any type, do not require power drain -- one can compose, (and for SLRs and rangefinders) zoom, and (manually) focus even with the power turned off.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 2, 2012 9:28:07 PM PDT
Neo Lee says:
Right, Dennis. I was oversimplying the terms for common modern digital cameras.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 3, 2012 12:05:57 AM PDT
Les Schmader says:
"by using the Optical VF the majority of the shot information (ISO, aperture etc.) that you see on the LCD but without having to take your eye off of the OVF to focus on composing shot..... "

What makes you think I take my eye off the EVF or lcd to compose a shot? Or that I can't hand hold and use the lcd just as well?

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 3, 2012 1:19:24 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 3, 2012 1:21:42 AM PDT
Neo Lee says:
"An LCD panel is neither eye-level nor optical."

When I hold my E-PL2 camera at my eye level even if extended an arm-length from me, how is its LCD panel not at eye-level? :D

The more I think of it, the more convinced I am that EVF differs from the exterior LCD only by eye relief (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_relief). After all, EVF is comprised of an *LCD panel* addition to a set of eyepiece lenses.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 3, 2012 7:29:49 AM PDT
The conventional meaning of the term "eye-level" means "at the eye", rather than the look-down common to a TLR, or the ground-glass of a large format "view camera".

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 4, 2012 2:17:54 AM PDT
Neo Lee says:
It's a term that describes the kind of a viewfinder, eye-level or look-down. It's not really an attribute of an LCD, because well you could hold the LCD down at waist, or up to the chest or eye level for that matter.

When you say "an LCD panel is neither eye-level nor ...," I think it doesn't help much either.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 4, 2012 2:24:22 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 4, 2012 2:44:15 AM PDT
Neo Lee says:
@daniel stern

Let me suggest an alternative. It may work but it sure does look ugly. Take a look at the second photo on this page http://bit.ly/Pb58Pd

It is called LCD [Hood] Viewfinder. The price is from $30 to $100 and if you could find the right size for your LX5 or your desired P&S camera, you could make a viewfinder out of the LCD. Amazon has a dozen of these for sale. This thing is at least cheaper than the add-on EVF accessory.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 4, 2012 5:22:01 AM PDT
daniel stern says:
Based on my research ( and personal friend recent purchase recommendation) of a Nikon P7100. Your thoughts? Thanks- Dan

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 4, 2012 5:37:55 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 4, 2012 5:40:28 AM PDT
Neo Lee says:
Dan, if you're buying P7100 for its optical-tunnel viewfinder, know that firstly what you see thru such a viewfinder is not what the camera will capture and secondly it looks unpleasantly small to me. I'm not going to jump to the conclusion for you. Since your friend has it, you should definitely try it out. It must be good at something with its 4.5 stars of reviews.

My other thoughts: 2011/2012 cameras of this type can usually record 1080p video but P7100 can only max out at 720p. That's rather weird.

Posted on Jul 4, 2012 2:33:52 PM PDT
JCUKNZ says:
After some sixty years of photography I may have come to some unconventional conclusions but buying as camera with an optical tunnel is going back in time some fifty years at least... it is the sort of thing we used in ignorance of what modern science has brought us today. The DSLR viewfinder is a poor immitation as a useful tool when compared to the SLR's viewfinder, except with modifications which may not be available for all models.
A good camera has both an EVF to be put to the eye, mine do not require the eye to be near to switch on, and also a fully articulated LCD for the situations where this is useful. You will find this with bridge cameras and M4/3.
The P7100 may suit some people but I wouldn't touch it first for the tunnel viewfinder and the LCD merely tilts ...I have great respect for the Nikon camera I still have but not this one despite I'm sure it is a great camera in other respects. It seems Nikon is following the antiquated practice that Canon have with their G models with regard to tunnel viewfinders. Obviously a market segment for those with heads in the past.

Posted on Jul 4, 2012 8:47:07 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 4, 2012 8:48:47 PM PDT
daniel stern says:
JCUKNZ- FYI- there happens to be a very good camera to go along with the Optical Viewfinder (:---->). Sorry if I am a demanding-eccentric-purist that wants a specific tool. I also prefer more manual control versus over complicated features that are buried in layers of menus on most of the digital cameras and thus prefer to control of taking images constructed with rapid decisions by my eye-brain and artistic spirit. I would argue that most diital camera owners live on automatic and P modes. For example- thats what I love love about the Leica M (besides the obvious) is the simplicity with the best craftsmanship/glass that is made- I just can not afford a Leica. It takes a good eye and skills (and a little luck). I have only used a film camera (Nikon & Contax) and know how to make stories with images- BTW I am also re-looking at the Fuji x100.... Thanks!
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Discussion in:  Digital Camera forum
Participants:  8
Total posts:  58
Initial post:  Jun 25, 2012
Latest post:  Jul 19, 2012

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