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Evolution is a Farce: There are dozens of reasons why it is not possible for mutations to produce species evolution.


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Initial post: Jun 5, 2012 11:46:09 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 5, 2012 12:07:38 PM PDT
Emilio Largo says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2012 11:52:22 AM PDT
Mystére says:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Beneficial_mutation

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2012 12:50:51 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 5, 2012 2:24:31 PM PDT
Emilio Largo says:
Mystere - drive-by http's usually infer that the person posting is trying to "get one over" on us. The reference you post mentions resistance to infection (HIV, bubonic plague, sickle cell anemia). As in the case of sickle cell anemia, evolutionists call this a beneficial mutation because having sickle cell anemia prevents malaria, as the blood's ability to carry oxygen is impaired....unbelievable piece of reasoning here. It's as if a blind person had a beneficial mutation because they were less likely to die in a car accident because they are not allowed to drive. At any rate, no new organs, systems, or species were observed here, as mutations would have to cause to facilitate one species transforming into another species (evolution). Examples of this are curiously missing.
Similarly, insects and rats often grow a resistance to pesticides, rendering he pesticide useless. This is not caused by mutation, but by the fact that only those pests with genetic traits causing resistance are the only ones to survive and bear offspring. Natural selection at work. This is why some people survived the plague - and their offspring survived as well.

Posted on Jun 5, 2012 1:13:02 PM PDT
A. Caplan says:
Could you please check your citation. American Scientist seems to go only back to 1998.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2012 1:22:00 PM PDT
Gwaithmir says:
Largo said: "The reference you post mentions resistance to infection (HIV, bubonic plague, sickle cell anemia). These were no doubt caused by traits already in the genome, not mutations."

>Citation needed.

>You are not an expert in genetics or mutations, Largo, and because of your obvious reluctance to do honest research, your opinions have no standing here. If you wish to make statements like that you must back them up with credible evidence.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2012 1:26:09 PM PDT
Gwaithmir says:
Largo said: "Yes, this is a quote from nearly 60 years ago. The funny thing is, after more recent discoveries, it's even more true today."

>Prove it!

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2012 2:17:26 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 5, 2012 2:19:27 PM PDT
Emilio Largo says:
Sorry, Caplan - The online issues of American Scientist only go back to 1998. Just Google C.P.Martin, the title of the article, American Scientist , and the date. Nice try, but since you can't argue the facts, you kind of have to try to discredit me.

Gwaithmir, the facts in my posts are scientifically correct and are self-evident.
You are the one defending a theory that makes no sense, so the burden of proof is on you. Isn't that how children win arguments, "Prove it!" Let's see a rational rebuttal on your part.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2012 2:19:00 PM PDT
Ah, Blastopone, a new thread, how novel. Hey, I got a chance to tell Neil Shubin your theory about the real identity of Tiktaalik (alligator with a fish stuck in its throat) yesterday -- entertaining to see wine come out his nose.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2012 2:20:16 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 5, 2012 2:27:44 PM PDT
Emilio Largo says:
Try to stay on task, Christine.....read the initial post on this thread. Hiding behind a condescending attitude? Novel indeed.....and now: the bait 'n switch begins in one..two...three....Bingo.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2012 2:24:51 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 5, 2012 2:26:00 PM PDT
But *you* can't stay on task, can you? That's why you start a new thread every time the challenges mount up on the old one.

Hey, how about those papers showing that "evolutionists" think that seal lions are an intermediate form between wolves and dolphins?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2012 2:38:35 PM PDT
"Mutations are more than just sudden changes in heredity------*C.P. Martin, "A Non-Geneticist Looks at Evolution", in American Scientist, Jan. 1953, p.102"

Hey guys, I checked out that big land west of Greenland, and there are definitely no Europeans there. Eric the Viking, 1491

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2012 2:54:52 PM PDT
Emilio Largo says:
Christine----I don't call redundancy, repetition, vacuous statements, childish accusations, and insults challenges....that's your take ...I'm sorry nobody responded to your thread about the platypus...it was so very intellectually stimulating, you know...

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2012 3:02:15 PM PDT
Gwaithmir says:
Largo said: "Gwaithmir, the facts in my posts are scientifically correct and are self-evident."

>Argument from assertion. Sorry, Largo. Citation needed.

Largo said: "You are the one defending a theory that makes no sense, so the burden of proof is on you."

>Notice how Largo shifts the burden of proof whenever he is called out on the outrageous statements he makes. Okay, Largo, here ya go:

>Are mutations harmful? http://talkorigins.org/faqs/mutations.html

>Examples of beneficial mutations and natural selection. http://www.gate.net/~rwms/EvoMutations.html

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2012 3:06:24 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 5, 2012 4:02:52 PM PDT
Emilio Largo says:
gwaithmir - Instead of referring us to obscure references, just come out and
a) Describe these beneficial mutations and what they do.
b) Illustrate how these mutations can add new information to the DNA and cooperate with other mutations to cause one species to transform into another.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2012 3:06:25 PM PDT
Gwaithmir says:
Largo said: "...insects and rats often grow a resistance to pesticides, rendering he pesticide useless. This is not caused by mutation, but by the fact that only those pests with genetic traits causing resistance are the only ones to survive and bear offspring."

>Are you claiming that mutations do not occur. How do you define a mutation?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2012 3:10:56 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 5, 2012 3:16:31 PM PDT
Emilio Largo says:
A mutation is damage to a single DNA unit ( a gene). If it occurs in a somatic (body) gene, it only injures the individual, but if it happens to a gametic (reproductive) gene, it will be passed on to his/her descendants.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2012 3:16:52 PM PDT
Gwaithmir says:
Largo said: "...as mutations would have to cause to facilitate one species transforming into another species (evolution). Examples of this are curiously missing."

>How many times are you going to keep repeating this lie, Largo?
Here is a rebuttal (for the umpteenth time) for the claim you've made above with appropriate citations. You have still yet to offer a counter-argument of your own:

>Antheraea oculea is a giant silk moth found in limited areas of the southwest. Its range partially overlaps those of its parent species Antheraea polyphemus. Interbreeding experiments confirm that oculea is related to polyphemus, but has undergone evolutionary changes due to geographical isolation and genetic drift, both predictable by modern evolutionary theory. Antheraea oculea is a transitional species which has been observed in the very act of evolving.

>http://books.google.com/books?id=3vqpGATXU2oC&pg=PA177&lpg=PA177&dq=antheraea+oculea+subspecies+of+antheraea+polyphemus&source=bl&ots=SRyroppUOT&sig=RjzsGhVRQltC9XXskPryDfqM7mE&hl=en&ei=z1GLTcnTIuXo0gHPz9iNDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=antheraea%20oculea%20subspecies%20of%20antheraea%20polyphemus&f=false

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2012 3:22:36 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 5, 2012 3:32:00 PM PDT
Emilio Largo says:
Gwaithmir, You certainly ended in a flurry of more http's .....But how does this moth analogy show evolution from one species to another? Evolution is not happening now and it never has happened before. Inuits were isolated in an environment whereby only those individuals who possessed traits that would allow them to survive on a high-fat diet that lacks fruits and vegetables would survive. They're still homo sapiens. And they look quite different than a Kenyan, Vietnamese, Italian, or Cherokee., And moths are still moths.
My little shih-tzu certainly doesn't resemble a wolf. He howls, though.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2012 3:30:07 PM PDT
Gwaithmir says:
Largo said: "A mutation is damage to a single DNA unit ( a gene). If it occurs in a somatic (body) gene, it only injures the individual, but if it happens to a gametic (reproductive) gene, it will be passed on to his/her descendants."

>Time to get your facts straight:

>Mutation is (1) a change of the DNA sequence within a gene or chromosome of an organism resulting in the creation of a new characteristic or trait not found in the parental type. (2)The process by which such change occurs in a chromosome, either through an alteration in the nucleotide sequence in the DNA coding for a gene or a change in the physical arrangement of a chromosome. (American Heritage Dictionary; 4th Edition, 2006)

>Also see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2012 3:36:53 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 5, 2012 3:40:09 PM PDT
Emilio Largo says:
Still, mutations do not create or add anything new. There are no examples of beneficial mutations that would create new organs, systems, or organisms. Far from being beneficial, mutations constitute something terrible that ruin and destroy organisms, either in the first generation or soon thereafter. Not only is it impossible for mutations to cause the evolutionary process, - they weaken or terminate the life process! The reason we all fear radiation is because it is a powerful means of producing mutations that irreparably damage our bodies.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2012 3:38:44 PM PDT
Gwaithmir says:
Largo said: "gwaithmir - Instead referring us to obscure references, just come out and
a) Describe these beneficial mutations and what they do.
b) Illustrate how these mutations can add new information to the DNA and cooperate with other mutations to cause one species to transform into another."

>Why? Are you incapable of clicking on a link and reading? Are you too cheap to buy a textbook? Sorry, Largo, but I'm not going to waste my time cutting and pasting huge blocks of text for a dullard who is clearly averse to improving his knowledge. Neither are you in any position to dictate the rules of how discussions are carried out in these forums.

>The answers to your questions reside in the references I have provided. They are there for those participants here who have the intellectual honesty to pursue the truth, regardless of where the evidence might lead. Clearly, you lack that form of honesty.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2012 3:42:36 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 5, 2012 3:48:26 PM PDT
Emilio Largo says:
I'm sorry, Gwaith- you sound like a phony. You have the opportunity here and now to state your case. Take notes from these references and print the proof here. Provide quotes. Simply listing references and washing your hands of it is a way of avoiding the issue.

Mutations do not create anything new. They alter DNA.They generally produce one of three types of changes within genes or chromosomes:
1) an alteration of DNA letter sequence in the genes, (2) gross changes in chromosomes (inversion, translocation), or (3) a change in the number of chromosomes (polyploidy, haploidy). But whatever the cause, the result is change in genetic information. No new, beneficial information is ever produced.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2012 3:50:11 PM PDT
Gwaithmir says:
Largo said: "Gwaithmir, You certainly ended in a flurry of more http's .....But how does this moth analogy show evolution from one species to another?"

>First of all, it is not an analogy. It is a scientifically confirmed example of speciation based upon experiments and observations in the field and laboratory. But then, you'll never know unless you actually read the book. And that's your problem, not mine.

Largo said: "Evolution is not happening now and it never has happened before."

>Not true. The proof for evolution has been placed before you countless times in these forums, but you insist on being a blockhead and remaining ignorant on the subject. Again, that is your problem, not mine.

>Largo said: "Inuits were isolated in an environment whereby only those individuals who possessed traits that would allow them to survive on a high-fat diet that lacks fruits and vegetables would survive. They're still homo sapiens. And they look quite different than a Kenyan, Vietnamese, Italian, or Cherokee."

>And how long do you think it would take for speciation to take place in humans, and what environmental pressures would be required for it to happen?

Largo said: "And moths are still moths."

>I never said they weren't, so what's your point?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2012 3:56:09 PM PDT
Gwaithmir says:
Largo said: "I'm sorry, Gwaith- you sound like a phony. You have the opportunity here and now to state your case. Take notes from these references and print the proof here. Provide quotes. Simply listing references and washing your hands of it is a way of avoiding the issue."

>As I stated earlier, Largo, you're in no position to dictate how discussions here are conducted. You have the opportunity here to actually learn something, but you're too closed-minded and dogmatic to take it. If anybody is avoiding the issue, it's you. You've been powned again and you know it. Stop trying to shift the blame and responsibility onto someone else.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2012 3:59:10 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 5, 2012 4:01:39 PM PDT
Emilio Largo says:
Once again, tautological statements passing off as arguments. Repetition, Redundancy. Vacuous, unfounded statements. Insults. Accusations. Name calling.
I rest my case.
You can have the last word - gotta go.
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Discussion in:  Evolution forum
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Initial post:  Jun 5, 2012
Latest post:  Jul 14, 2012

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