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Customer Discussions > Fantasy forum

Don't we need strong MALE characters as WELL as female?


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Showing 151-175 of 247 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012 1:56:30 PM PDT
D. J. Bowler says:
Hi!

Donna: "I thought there were huge questions asked about human behavior and power. Like in every political world there are those who want ultimate power and will do anything for it. How will they behave when they get it?"

Okay, now we'e getting somewhere. The crux of our 'difference' is that I don't see that questions regarding Power and the misuse of it are Big, Deep Questions.

Just because humankind consistently, persistently fails to understand the issue(s) doesn't mean it's deep. The bigger question is why we keep making the same mistakes.

This was something in the forefront of my mind when I drafted this last book. I'm much more interested in visualizing what we would be like if we could actually learn from our mistakes, and not prey upon one another - routinely and as a matter of course.

Posted on May 29, 2012 2:04:39 PM PDT
Kelly says:
If you watch Thrones, be prepared to be rooting for a LOT of people to get killed. Some real vile, evil people. Also know some episodes have very graphic violence - like this week's. But a good show. Lost my favorite this week. (considering the death toll, not much of a spoiler - characters die each week)

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012 2:32:35 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 29, 2012 2:33:04 PM PDT
Donna says:
In GoT some of your favorites die. In fact the villains seem to survive more often.

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012 2:35:46 PM PDT
Donna says:
DJ: HI again...

I think they are huge questions and I don't see that they ever change throughout history. The answers, that is. Humankind does make the same mistakes over and over and over. History repeats. People want power no matter the cost. People prey on each other. People will lie, cheat, kill and betray to get power. Always have and unfortunately probably always will.

Posted on May 29, 2012 3:20:34 PM PDT
W.Westphal says:
I am popping in here again and HAVE NOT READ the recent posts. This has probably already been mentioned, but if you want to avoid weak pathetic female characters, DO NOT READ Fifty Shades of Grey! Worst YA romance ever.

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012 3:35:25 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 29, 2012 3:36:35 PM PDT
Agree...Sick & tired of woman's libbed....gender cowed...wimpy males....Give me a strong dominant male counterpoint to challenge my intellect and still vibrant 50-ish libido. Ladies we have been royally LIED to...and forced to "accept" males much weaker than ourselves ...that do nothing to arouse our "fighting" instincts....and hone our sexual prowess. Stand UP...and demand the strong male characters we so richly deserve....before the "Battle of the Sexes" is truly lost ....by default. Nuf' said. ;)

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012 3:44:29 PM PDT
Donna says:
I really have no interest in reading 50 Shades of Grey. I really never understood pain with pleasure. It just does not compute.

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012 4:11:05 PM PDT
That isn't a YA romance, and isn't marketed as such. I haven't read it, but I know for certain that it is marketed to adults.

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012 4:14:33 PM PDT
So, in your mind, a man who treats a woman like an equal is a woman's libbed, gender cowed, wimp? Because I don't see it that way at all - it takes a man who IS a man to value me for my strength and independence.

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012 4:25:23 PM PDT
Donna says:
Ms Mayhem, just for the record I am in your camp. I appreciate men who are strong, compassionate and treat their women with respect. I also think women should do the same for their men, which doesn't always occur. Two equals work together much better than one dominant and one submissive. Now however you want to play it with your spouse is up to you but in reality both should know they are equals.

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012 4:28:59 PM PDT
Kelly says:
I think the problem is many authors, in raising women up, have lowered men down. They reject "damsel in distress" and make "mansel in distress". Making a woman strong doesn't require making men weak.... but some authors do.

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012 4:32:59 PM PDT
That may be. But that's a failing of the author, not of feminism.

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012 4:40:29 PM PDT
Donna says:
Totally agree.

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012 4:41:20 PM PDT
Kelly says:
But we are talking about authors here, not philosophy. Even Jill said "characters" not "men"

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012 4:50:41 PM PDT
I didn't get the impression that her post was about "characters" given her statement that we have been royally LIED [emphasis in original] to - it felt quite personalized to me.

Perhaps she can clarify?

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012 5:44:06 PM PDT
Donna says:
I thought it was pretty clear too, Jill said in part: ".Sick & tired of woman's libbed....gender cowed...wimpy males....Give me a strong dominant male counterpoint to challenge my intellect and still vibrant 50-ish libido. Ladies we have been royally LIED to"

Slighting the tag "woman's Lib"

I guess we need more clarification.

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012 9:53:44 PM PDT
Kelly says:
OK, I was focusing on her line

>Stand UP...and demand the strong male characters we so richly deserve....

In reply to an earlier post on May 30, 2012 12:08:02 AM PDT
D. J. Bowler says:
Sure Donna,

All of that is true... And is there a way to get beyond that?

Posted on May 30, 2012 12:16:27 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 30, 2012 12:17:47 AM PDT
I just don't like the plethora of urban fantasy that is heavy on the romance. It's pretty much a gurantee that if the main character is female the author will spend an inordinate amount of time dwelling on the characters relationships. As a general rule this makes the male characters pale in comparison to the female lead (that is kind of the point though).

I'm not saying the heavy romance/relationship content in these books is bad, just that I don't like it. I much prefer books like Jim Butcher's Dresden Files, which have already been mentioned as good examples of novels with balanced characters. That being said female authors tend to write female leads, and male authors tend to write male leads (I know, an amazing revelation). Men as a general rule, don't care as much as women do about deep romantic relationships in a book and as a result neither do male authors. Ultimately we end up with Anita Blake and her harem of men or Sandman Slim dragging demons and expolsions behind him wherever he goes neither of whom have peers of the opposite sex (they do both have a thing for motorcycle leather though.)

In reply to an earlier post on May 30, 2012 7:04:56 AM PDT
Peridot says:
Please don't bring Anita Blake into this. Laurell K Hamilton was a well-respected author, once upon a time, before she degenerated into whatever-she-is now. Anita Blake has become a Mary Sue and a parody of herself.

LKH is now a failing author. Her books are remaindered faster than the speed of heat.

In reply to an earlier post on May 30, 2012 11:41:15 AM PDT
Donna says:
Probably not. It has never happened that we got beyond that. And I personally think that story has many tales that are forever fascinating.

In reply to an earlier post on May 30, 2012 11:49:53 AM PDT
Donna says:
Evan, jumping in here to say you are mostly right. There are some men who write surprisingly amazingly well about women, Stephen King being one I can think of off the top. Dolores Claiborn is one of the best.

In reply to an earlier post on May 30, 2012 11:56:52 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 30, 2012 11:57:07 AM PDT
D. J. Bowler says:
Hi Donna, thanks for the feedback. . . Personally though, I'm no longer fascinated by the endless permutations.

Doesn't keep me from writing about it though ;] (bread & butter!) ;]

Cheers!

In reply to an earlier post on May 30, 2012 12:04:40 PM PDT
Donna says:
So I am asking. What have you written? I did look for you on Amazon and I think you are not writing under the name you are using here or they are not on Amazon.
I am very fascinating because the permutations are endless and make exciting stories.

Posted on May 30, 2012 12:41:20 PM PDT
Donna says:
I cannot remember who here posted that BSG told the story about Cylons looking like humans was done because the Syfi Channel was cutting financial corners. DJ was it you? Anyway, it reminded me of the contract signed by Edward James Olmos who played Commander and then Admiral Adama that there would be no "spikey headed aliens" in the show from beginning to end. I guess for some of you that makes it not really science fiction, which to me is not the case. I really liked that, it meant the show would be about humans and human-like creatures. Human wannabes in a sense. What this says to me about the cost cutting is that it was planned from the beginning that it would be about people and their interactions and emotions, about power, love, betrayal, hate/rage/racism, and survival. And more but all about humanity. There were never going to be any "spikey headed aliens" in it. Or, as I call them, fakey aliens.
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Discussion in:  Fantasy forum
Participants:  90
Total posts:  247
Initial post:  Nov 4, 2011
Latest post:  May 16, 2015

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