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Pete Seeger / Nobel Peace Prize


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In reply to an earlier post on Oct 17, 2009 6:54:58 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 17, 2009 7:10:02 PM PDT
Joel Cymrot says:
Major Carter;
Although it may surprise you - I agree with more of what you have to say and your opinions - then I disagree with. That includes that this is not the most appropriate place for this discussion. However I will make a final (for me ) comment on Amnesty International ( and other groups like them ) by again using a particular example - this one however - unfortunately too real.:
For most of the Vietnamese War - on Sunset BLvd. in LA, in a prominent place - there was a bill board - which showed a terribly burned Asian child , naked - running toward the camera. The caption on top - stated; "Napalm is a terrible way to kill children!" The add was sponsored - as I recall - by the - "Mothers against Napalm" . I don't think you could take this add any way other then (unintentionaly) implying - there was a GOOD way to kill children.If you've studied war at all (I assume you have ) - you must realize that the only way - relatively recently - that wars are now won - is not by killing soldiers - but by killing civilians. ALL civilians. We got no where for six years with the Germans in WW11 - and then we accidently "firebombed" Frankfort and killed 80,000 civilians, Our last GOOD president - Truman - realised the opportunity and ordered a "non accidental" firebombing of Dresden - a completely peaceful German city - with no military value what so ever. We killed another 80,000 German civilians and Germany surrendered two days later. Same story with Japanese. Six years of Island Hopping didn't deter them in the least . Killing 200,000 or so civilians at Hiroshima and Nagasaki - ended the war in 48 hours.
I don't think we should have gone to war in Iraq I would prefer that we don't go to war anywhere. But if we go to war - the best way to win is to kill as many of the other sides civilians - in any way (but preferably the most brutal way) possible. If you are not willing to do that - you are wasting our fighting men's lives and freedom - and you are - in my opinion - a coward and a hypocrite. and you are going to loose the war! That - I think - describes the character of most of our current (and past ...)political leaders and is also why I can't tolerate groups like the ones that you apparently support - that want to "discuss " the "acceptable" ways to kill. There are NONE sir.
I wish you the best !
Joel
(out)

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 17, 2009 6:11:19 PM PDT
With an ability to misinterpret simple declarative sentences, there may be a spot for you with certain news organizations. I am sure that a couple of the K street offices would love to give you a shot.

My point, sir, is that I do have some background for my opinions. I'm sure you have some for yours. I am not in a position to make any further judgment in that regard, since I have no idea of your character or background beyond what can charitably be called churlish comments. You started this dialog by defaming my judgment and intelligence (and that of a former President) while knowing nothing about me, other than your disagreement with my opinion. We are no farther on that score, but that is your privilege.

To take your "falling piano" example to its logical conclusion, that would make anyone who lost a relative or friend in the unmitigated banjax of the second Iraq invasion an expert on adventurism. Fair enough. Few of them see any point in sacrificing more lives by overstaying the agreed-to time limits. The people who followed their orders and did their job in the implementation of the policies of the United States deserve a measure of credit and respect. They do not necessitate further expenditure of lives and treasure in Iraq. Send a million troops tomorrow, or leave tomorrow: it changes nothing for those who served. They did their jobs, they fulfilled their oaths of enlistment and/or commission.

Let's see. You don't like the American Civil Liberties Union, which has as its charter the defense of the Bill of Rights.....even if that defense leads to distasteful results. Justice Marshal wrote: "the doctrine of free speech means nothing if we employ it only to defend speech of which we approve."

I can understand people on the Right Wing (as currently constituted) not being in favor of the Bill of Rights, but what's your problem with Amnesty International? They monitor the degree to which nations observe treaties to which virtually all nations are signatories. If you have something to say on the subject, other than more ad hominum rhetoric, I would be interested to hear it. I do think, however, this discussion might be conducted on another discussion group with greater appropriateness. Any suggestions?

Michael A. Carter, Ed. D., Major, USAF (Ret.)

Posted on Oct 17, 2009 4:47:18 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 17, 2009 4:47:57 AM PDT
M. J. Gawlik says:
Joel, tt's one thing to express an opinion, quite another to insult or demean anyone that does not share your's.

I could go back and forth with you, I enjoy a good argument, along with the occasional fist fight. But I come here to read and discuss music. Simple as that.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 17, 2009 2:52:25 AM PDT
Joel Cymrot says:
Major Carter;
I, like all Americans should be - am grateful for your service in our armed forces - However I do not think that simply being a part of the military - automatically qualifies you as someone with either better - or more important judgment on military or political matters - simply because you where in the service .
Perhaps a better way to illustrate MY point is; Say you are a civilian walking past a ten story building in a bad neighborhood - and a teenage gang - hanging out on the roof - decides to drop a stolen baby grand piano off the roof onto you. But you get lucky - the five-hundred pound piano - misses you by one tenth of an inch and makes a five foot deep hole in the concrete pavement at your feet. Now my point; this near miss - does not leave you a
newly anointed musical expert! No -you are still - just like the rest of us -average - except maybe luckier...
So yes - you are entitled to your opinion - but you and your families military service - doesn't make your opinions - better , or more important then anyone else's....including mine. Mine - which I am entitled to just like you. Right? And in my opinion - what would make your opinion - better and more important - would be your intelligence. And again - in my opinion - the organizations you've chosen to join - and the opinions you've voiced - indicate to me that you are an idiot. Sorry - but your stupidity is endangering all our (Americans) lives - not just your own - and you DO NOT (in my opinion) have a right to do THAT!
joel

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 17, 2009 2:11:06 AM PDT
Major, yes. USAF, retired. Enlisted 1966, commissioned 1978, retired 1992. Do the timeline and see how enthused I would be about wasting lives. As your ilk would say, I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of any party dedicated to the overthrow of the government of the United States by force and violence.

I have decided nothing for you, sir. I am expressing my opinion. We have that right again, you know. Within my immediate family, we have spent close to one hundred total years in the uniform of our country to preserve that right, among others.

No, I am not related to the former President of the United States. My dad met him at Annapolis Prep, and, like many people do when they meet someone with the same surname, they went through the family trees. No connection.

Does one have to be asked to participate in a thread here? How interesting. Or do we just have to clear our thoughts with the central committee? Well, please pass this by your obviously civilian standards: in the military, we voluntarily place ourselves between our loved homes and war's desolation (yeah, some of us do quote the rest of Mr. Key's poem). But I have never found anyone who has been willing or able to defend the idea that today's deaths somehow ennoble the deaths of last week.

Want something more to screw yourself into the ceiling about Mr. Cymrot? Despite having served over a quarter century in the military, I am not a homophobic, right wingnut, gun freak. I am, however, a member of Amnesty International and the American Civil Liberties Union. I started contributing to those organizations through the Combined Federal Campaign, a Dod program. I am active in campaigns to allow all Americans to serve their country, the statement in the first paragraph would preclude me from belonging to the tea-bagging astroturfer movements or, indeed the so-called "base" of the Republic Party.

Oh, yes; for my entire adult life, I have been the recipient of health care through government run, single payer programs. According to a long string of Administrations, these programs were the best a grateful nation could provide those of us who served.

This thread is supposed to be about the attempt to place a great American's name in nomination for the Nobel Peace Prize. Obviously, you have another interpretation. Good for you. Perhaps you could find some place more suitable for defaming (among others) a man who earned an engineering degree from the United States Naval Academy, served as his state's Governor, and as our President. I'm sure there is a Rush Room or Beck Barn discussion somewhere.

Peace be with you.
Michael A. Carter, Ed. D. Major, USAF (ret.)

P.S. Mr Gawlick? I am also a unreconstructed folkie with credits that date back to accompanying Shlomo Carlebach at the Berkeley Folk Festival in 66, working the NorCal coffee house circuit before that, and moonlighting in various gathering places for fellow peace loving types on three continents (transportation courtesy of the USAF). Cheers

Posted on Oct 16, 2009 10:52:26 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 16, 2009 10:54:00 PM PDT
Joel Cymrot says:
M.J. ? Where are you MJ? I hope you havn't had a relapse. We need you MJ! There's no such thing as a one sided coin! (Well at least - there isn't if you never heard of a Möbius strip...) Your...your...well, your like the cheese on my burger MJ. Your like the - the - the blow on my job! MJ - your like the guy that could be my next brother-in-law - if you find me a single, American born, Chinese lady that plays fiddle! Hang in there MJ - write back - find out why Heddy West - REALLY is the best american folk singer - and MJ - remember - I'm your best friend forever now - I've got your back - call me if you need me!
bff,
joel

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 16, 2009 9:25:38 PM PDT
Joel Cymrot says:
M.J. - your out! They let you come home for the weekend! I'm so glad! - that almost always means your getting better! Listen M.J. - lets stop this silly fighting between us! We should be on the same side. How about - if I promise to stop knocking the left - if you promise to stop ranting about the nutty right ( I admit they are a little nutty sometimes... especially people like Rush, Glen Beck, and John McCain). (Although to be fair - you'd have to admit Mccain isn't any nuttier the Reverend Wright - right? So look - here's what I propose -; lets try working together and lets get rid of all the stinking Japs in this great Country of ours! Do you realize - most people don't even remember Pearl Harbor - much less the Bataan death march. I think we should drop a third nuke on the bastards - what about you? Are we togetherr MJ? Say yes and lets rid our country of Curious Kitties!
your new BFF,
joel

Posted on Oct 16, 2009 8:12:22 PM PDT
M. J. Gawlik says:
Hey Joel, a little upset about something? With me speaking for all folkies and Michael
making decisions for everyone, including you, does it feel like peace loving, left wing
hippie types are closing in around you? There's a lot of us and we could be coming to your town.

Oh, next time have your legal guardian help with your ravings.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 15, 2009 10:27:27 PM PDT
Joel Cymrot says:
Mr. Carter: Are you any relation to the Jimmy Carter - God created as an example to the rest of us for why all Southern Baptists should be aborted before birth - and even more importantly - why they should never - EVER - be elected to ANY public office - even dog catcher of - say for example - Plains Georgia!
Or are you - by pure unrelated circumstance - just a blithering mentally incompetent - idiot. You know of say the left wing commie type?
And you've apparently decided - for all the rest of us - that the lives of a four or five thousand troops are more important - then the freedom and independence of both our country and its citizens. Very clever, And so brave of you - considering no asked you. You know - if there where more people like you around during WW11 - we'd all be speaking German and wearing little Hitler mustaches. You are Sir - in short - a major AH.
have a nice day,
joel

Posted on Oct 15, 2009 10:01:14 PM PDT
OK, so Pete didn't win this year. With any luck, we can try again next year. Besides, It's SOOOOOO much fun watching the neo-cons screw themselves into the ceiling about Barack Obama winning for "just" reversing the disastrous course of what passed for international relations in the preceeding eight years. Of course there was the minor thing about bringing large parts of the Executive Branch (and more to come) into line with the Constitution. But he has a funny name, and Ronnie Reagan never got one. Gloat, Gloat, Gloat.

Besides, from what I hear Pete thinks this is a good choice ...... even better if it pressures him into bringing the troops home sooner.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 14, 2009 2:21:17 PM PDT
Joel Cymrot says:
M.J.;
I'm actually naked right now cause I can't make up my mind which tee shirt to wear - can you help?
1. "Kill and eat a whale - they taste just like chicken..."
2. "Kill and eat a PETA person - they taste just like chicken..."
3. "Heddy West - best american folk singer..."
By the way - since you seem to feel that you can speak for ":folkies" - what about that the Banjo - was invented in Austria - and was reportedly Adolf Hitlers favorite instrument???

Posted on Sep 14, 2009 2:05:50 PM PDT
M. J. Gawlik says:
Okay Cymrot, I've got your number. I see you're one of those '60's peaceniks.

Which logo t-shirt are you wearing today:

1. Peace Sign - The Footprint of the American Chicken
2. These Colors Don't Run
3. Red Neck, White Socks and Pabst Blue Ribbon

Posted on Sep 7, 2009 6:25:45 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 7, 2009 6:26:33 PM PDT
Joel Cymrot says:
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Posted on Sep 7, 2009 4:19:49 AM PDT
With the knowledge that I am running the risque to step on somebody´s
toes here I must make this comment:
Pete Seeger, although I always found his ambitions very symphathetic, they
were far too intellectualized and based in a "political movement" that is to be
seen as strictly an isolated American phenomenon...
For example in Europe today his name is practically unknown by the younger
generations and in Africa and Asia he is totally unknown!
Pete Seeger will always be linked with the Civil Rights Movement and Anti-War
Movement in the USA in the 50s and 60s...and as bearer of traditions from Joe
Hill and Woody Guthrie...And his name will forever be respected by the political
progressives in the USA and maybe elsewhere...But the Nobel Peace Prize?...No!

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 25, 2007 7:10:19 AM PST
Yes! You can also visit www.nobelprize4pete.org for more information on this campaign.

Initial post: Nov 2, 2007 6:50:33 PM PDT
M. J. Gawlik says:
Please go to www.petitionthem.com and sign the petition to get
Pete Seeger nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.
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Discussion in:  Folk Music forum
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Initial post:  Nov 2, 2007
Latest post:  Oct 17, 2009

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