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In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010 9:01:42 AM PDT
GRR DTOM says:
The crop yield indeed does decline over time because oil-based fertilizers, pesticides, and herbicides destroy the ecology of the soil. This in turn means that even more of the above must be applied with every subsequent planting. All the hype about GMOs producing more, and Monsanto just being a product of our increasing demand for food is just that, a myth. It's a myth being propagated by high-dollar marketing that is little more than propaganda designed to deceive. But there is even more to know about how these companies are destroying our food supply. Plants need certain organisms and enzymes in their soil in order for their roots to uptake nutrients. Planting food in an unsustainable way, this includes GMOs, destroys this ecology in as little as 3 years. Once the soil ecology is destroyed even more chemicals will be required to grow the food in a way that looks good for the stores. Yeah, the food looks really good, but it has no actual nutritional value, and it's covered in Round-Up and Atrazine, two things that should never come within 500 ft of the human mouth. Yes, this is depressing, but we the people are letting it happen. I personally grow as much of my own food as possible in a garden I had plowed in my backyard, and I share as much of it as I can with other people who I attempt to educate about these issues.

Regarding the comments about the good things that Monsanto, et al, have done - no amount of good can make up for the damage they have done, and are doing to both farming and our food supply. 20-50 years from now we will be looking back and understanding that we should never have let GMOs into our food or into animal feed. I'll take anyone up on that bet.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010 9:15:27 AM PDT
GRR DTOM says:
GMO is not controlled plant breeding. What you are talking about is called hybridization, not genetic engineering. There is a big difference between crossing two squash varieties and implanting fish genes in a tomato seed. But that's not even where you are the most wrong. the very idea that opposing GMOs is "pushing farming out of America" is totally asinine and the exact opposite of the truth. In fact, it's companies like Monsanto that are pushing traditional farming out of America, and out of every other country they can get their greedy paws on. Their lobbyists have been putting up bill after bill before Congress in an attempt to make small-scale and organic farming more expensive and more bureaucratic so that they can centralize the entire industry under their own umbrella of control. This is a fact. You cannot compare what Monsanto is doing with copyrighting music. Human health does not depend on whether or not you downloaded a song for free or bought it from Sony. We are talking about monkeying around with the very DNA of the food we eat, which gets absorbed by the cells of our bodies, and in a way that has been proven in study after study to be dangerous to human health and welfare.

But that isn't even the point. The real point is, the world does not need GMOs to feed itself. If we did we would not be dumping millions of tons of wasted food into the oceans every year, nor would we be replacing millions of acres of viable crop land with corn and soy. The very idea that we need GMOs to meet demand is 100% marketing propaganda, and obviously there's a gullible sucker born every minute judging by how many people seem to actually believe that nonsense.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010 9:38:08 AM PDT
Jon, I learned the hard way. When I was young, I watched all these documentaries and read all these books and had much the same attitude as many people in this discussion have: that all large corporations are about nothing BUT greed, and will do anything to make more money. My conscience did, and still does, find that unbearable.

But eventually patterns began to emerge. Certain people and/or organizations were frequently credited. The same messages were rehashed and republished. I started asking questions, and not just asking farmers. I asked doctors and pharmacists. I began to study the markups on commodities and I know that the profit margins on food are much slimmer than those on other commodities. Clothing? At least 100% markup. Jewelry? Don't even think about it. I even donated a large sum of money to an environmental group. They sent me newsletters and I was horrified to learn what they were doing, trying to block people from working, lobbying Congress to ban this and that. I'm not going to say what group it was, but they are inhumane. But they played my emotions like a guitar, and got a big chunk of money so they could empower themselves to tell Americans where they can and cannot live and work. I'll never make that mistake again.

I came to realize the documentaries and shocking "non-fictional" books were simply fodder for the people publishing. They make their living by frightening consumers, and there are a lot of them. Are GMO foods harmful? They certainly can't be any more harmful than those fearmongers who cash in on making people paranoid. Life is meant to be enjoyed.

And another thing. I do not consider Big Food, Pharma, Cars, you name it saints. But there is no logic to the argument that they will make money at any cost. Yes, sometimes people do die because of their products and I wonder how they deal with that. But the fearmongers keep saying that the greedy corporation will go so far as to indiscriminately kill people, either through theri product or conspiracy. That logic completely fails. What company would make a product completely with malice toward the consumer? After all, if all the consumers die, the corporation can't make any money.

I appreciate your post because you are actually doing the work we non-experts are discussing.

I'm so glad I've learned that just because I keep hearing the same things over and over doesn't make them true. I'm much happier being skeptical.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010 12:03:47 PM PDT
Matthew says:
Ummm... Monsanto has sued over 150 farmers for patent infringement and most settle out of court. Not sure where you are getting your facts there lady.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010 12:16:33 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 30, 2010 12:50:28 PM PDT
Matthew says:
Yes it is patenting "life". When something can grow and reproduce on its own, I don't know what you call that, but thats "life". Music does not reproduce itself and then show up in your cd player or ipod on its own so the company that owns the music can sue you.

And btw, the dirt cheap prices we are selling our food for are putting those minimum wage farmers in other countries out of business. They can't compete with us.

And you say we are not being poisoned by our food? Jeez... You must have your head in the sand as well. I think you've hit bedrock actually. Have you read the labels on the products at the grocery store? Have you not heard of the countless cases of lab rats being negatively effected by GMO's? Oh I forgot... all of those are "doom and gloom rants of internet bloggers". None of them can be true... can they?

Ya, good "reason", Hummingbirder. Your "reason" is vanishing because people are becoming informed and not putting up with the atrocities that giant corporations like Monsanto bestow upon us.

Just google Monsanto and look at the 3-mile-long laundry list of human rights they have infringed upon. How many times they have lobbied to conceal the truth, or to be able to put toxic chemicals into our water or food supply? How many farmers have they screwed over? How many people in how many countries have been negatively effected by them? Go ahead, keep blindly supporting them. You are a vanishing breed for a good reason. It's called survival of the fittest. I am happy your breed is vanishing. I do not have much of a tolerance for ignorance.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010 12:46:08 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 30, 2010 12:52:34 PM PDT
Matthew says:
So that's your argument now? All these documentaries are "fearmongering"? None of them hold any credibility and they are all just twisting the truth to turn a profit? Whatever you say...

Wow... you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

And I don't know if people who work for the giant corporations are actually "killing" people over profits... but I am wise enough to know that its possible. Greed can be a very scary thing. Thinking that people do not kill for money is extremely naive. It happens every single day, all over the world. If you think otherwise you are only in denial.

Don't worry, you will be able to buy and eat plenty of GMO's before they kill you, or alter you or your children's DNA, or make you sterile... all possible according to the "doom and gloom internet bloggers"

Posted on Sep 30, 2010 1:42:17 PM PDT
W.H. says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010 1:49:07 PM PDT
bothellbuyer says:
No.....when in doubt, study up on the subject....learn more.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010 3:13:21 PM PDT
Do you think documentaries are made for your benefit? I'm sorry, but documentarians intend monetary gain. Look how many documentaries, of every stripe, are for sale right here on Ammy. I'm sorry to say this, but those documentarians and authors do not care about you. They care about making a buck. A documentary can be very interesting. Michael Moore makes fascinating documentaries and a lot of money doing it. I consider documentaries entertainment, not enlightenment.

I can take a videocamera outside right now and start babbling about a topic and say it's a documentary and it's true. That is why I ask the people who are in the business of farming, health, etc. They give me their unvarnished opinion for no monetary gain.

Posted on Sep 30, 2010 3:14:26 PM PDT
Hot hands says:
Amen...

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2010 5:28:53 PM PDT
YTWong says:
~~Hummingbirder~~ says: "I can take a videocamera outside right now and start babbling about a topic and say it's a documentary and it's true. That is why I ask the people who are in the business of farming, health, etc. They give me their unvarnished opinion for no monetary gain."

Really? Maybe you should do it and tell all the good things about Monsanto...

And when you release it for sale on Amazon.com, I would love to see the reviews given to your documentary...if anyone buys it in the first place...

Posted on Sep 30, 2010 10:11:46 PM PDT
DGray says: It is absolutely a joy to hear so many well informed people on a forum, I really mean great job. Of course Hummingbirder is a part of that very large conspiracy. All the things and information that has been shared here is very true and Mansanto, Bayer,etc are 1000 time worse than you could ever know. But to be honest with you I don't believe they can be stopped, but I would love to be a part of trying. Right now we must take action in our own personal lives. They are now taking over the water in the third world countries and making sure there is no safe drinkable water here in this country. But everyone here keep up the good work and lets not waste anymore time on the Humminbirders thats exactly what there jobs are, but he may be in some trouble because due to him you guys got out a lot of information and educated and informed, exactly what he is suppose to prevent, once again great job I applaud you, thank you AMERICANS.

Posted on Sep 30, 2010 11:13:12 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 30, 2010 11:16:21 PM PDT
Sorry I got the ball rolling again. Looks like this has been rolling a while. This discussion may go on till 2012.
And you all know what happens then. I love C-O-N SPIRACIES.
But truthfully please check out what works for you. I made my decision 8 months ago.
Try Organic fruits & vegtables or GMO, Processed & Fast Foods for 2 weeks & see what makes you feel better.

Posted on Sep 30, 2010 11:37:12 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 1, 2010 12:09:33 AM PDT
This is my story & I am sticking to it.

I have been on RX (prescription drugs) for 9yrs now. I had a stroke in Oct 2000 (age 42yr). It was debilitating for over a year. I was in a hospital for a week & out of work for a month. The only reason why I was able to go back to work so soon was that I had a desk job or it might have been another 6 months. The numbness I had in my face & the dissiness in head took over a year before it subsided. The doctor prescribed a blood pressure pill (Norvasc 5mg once a day), one for dissiness (can't remember this one-did not take it long so I could return to work) & a blood thinner pill (Plavix 75mg once a day). My blood pressure would not go down. So my doctor upped my mediation to 10mg of Norvasc. Within one week my feet began to swell. By the beginning of the next week they were like ballons (elephant feet). I had company (a buddy from Texas) so I decided to quit taking that medication until I could go see my doctor. The very next week he changed my medication Norvasc 10mg to Toprolol XL 50mg. After one month that would not work either, so he upped my Toprolol XL 50mg to 100mg (all which had there own side effects). I continued to see more doctors. In 2002 my next doctor a Cardiologist changed my medication & added more. I was now on Toprolol 100mg, and he added Gemfibrozil 100mg-for high triglcerides and Plavix 75mg). This went on for another 2yrs. Then my Cardiologist decided he did not like me taking Gemfibrozil, so he changed it to Tricor 145mg and added Benicar HCT 20/25mg (another blood pressure pill because my blood pressure was still not going down to 80/120) soon after that Lovanza (pharmaceutical fish oil pill 1gm). Then soon after that Niaspan (pharmaceutical nician) for dropping triglyerides. I was in a whirlwind of RX. After reading so much on the side effects I was ready to get off the merry-go-round. But I went to another doctor (interanl medicne) this was a female doctor. I wanted a different prespective. It did not go any better. She put me on more medication Protonix 40mg & Nexium 40mg. And another blood pressure pill Verapamil 180mg.This was a night time blood pressure pill (now I was on 3 blood pressure pills). Then she sent me to a sleep study to check if I was breathing normal at night. Of course I wasn't. I was on so much medicine I was drugged. I was put on a C-Pap macnine that forces air into your lungs to keep your airways open. I was definitely in bad shape. This was more than I could stand. After 2 more years I had to stop. I have been on 5-6 RX medications at a time for the last 10 years and I have decided to make a change in my life, I have decided to eat more healthy. Since Nov 2009 I have stopped taking all my RX medications. After researching many topics an veiwing may different movies, DVD's on health I have found a better way. There is Hope and Life. See my previous links below for knowledge. I really believe now after trying it myself. This is no gimick, just common sense. There is nothing to buy but your food. Just make it healthly. I am sure I missed a lot of important things to mention. This was a fast write up. At my last count since 10 yrs ago I have been on more than 10 prescriptions. I was really scared that I might come down with cancer or some other horrible immune problem. Just look up some of the drugs I was taking and their side effects.

www.rxlist.com

Norvasc 10mg, Plavix 75mg, Toprolol XL 100mg, Gemfibrozil 600mg, Metoprolol 100mg, Tricor 145mg, Benicar HCT 40/25mg, Protonix 40mg, Nexium 40mg, Verapamil 180mg, Lovaza 1gm, Niaspan 500mg

I have been RX drug free for 10 months now. How come I am not dead or in a hospital. I feel better than I have felt since I was 30.

Not to mention I fell on my right hip 2 years ago. I had pain in my right hip for over a year so I went to a orthopedist which told me I needed a hip replacement. My cartilage was gone. So I started reading about cartilage replacement. Guess what, it has to do with your diet. So I went back to him 6 months later to prove him wrong. I have no more pain in my hip or other parts of my body. I walk 4 miles a day and eat healthy. That is all there is to it. You can too.

Posted on Oct 1, 2010 10:33:28 AM PDT
Hot hands says:
What did you do to help repair your cartilage?

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 1, 2010 1:17:37 PM PDT
Hummingbirder, please take time to do some more in-depth research on Monsanto. I began to have doubts about Monsanto a few years ago when, being a farmer, I received a form letter from them threatening serious legal action against me if I were to save and re-plant their patented soybeans (which I had not done and had no intention of doing). This is also what they do to poor, third-world farmers who can't afford to buy new, patented seed every year. Since then I've read reports of studies showing fertility problems and other health issues in livestock fed genetically modified grain. Most of these studies are from Europe, as almost no independent research on GMO crops gets done in the US. I can't write volumes here, so I urge you to go online and look into this yourself.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 1, 2010 1:23:32 PM PDT
FYI, GMO produce IS sprayed. It is genetically modified to be resistant to herbicides that would normally kill it, or it is modified to contain a pesticide within the plant to kill bugs that try to eat it.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 5, 2010 9:09:17 PM PDT
YTWong says:
John R, thanks for this website: www.rxlist.com

It's very useful when I need to search for some info on drugs...

I noticed many of the psychotropic drugs as mentioned on this documentary DVD - "Making A Killing The Untold Story of Psychotropic Drugging" can cause thoughts of suicide or suicide itself...plus others... It's good that you're off all these drugs now.

For example (from rxlist.com):

PAXIL®
(paroxetine hydrochloride) Tablets and Oral Suspension

"Contact your doctor promptly if you have any of the following side effects, especially if they are new symptoms or if they get worse: mood changes, anxiety, panic attacks, trouble sleeping, irritability, agitation, aggressiveness, severe restlessness, mania (mental and/or physical hyperactivity), thoughts of suicide or hurting yourself."

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 8, 2010 10:09:17 AM PDT
Craig says:
wow it's on the internet, must be fact.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 8, 2010 11:49:22 AM PDT
Hot hands says:
just like real life, and text books printed in Texas, the internet has alot of truth, and alot of BS, it's up to us to be educated and discerning. "to the believer no proof is necessary, to the doubter, no proof is enough"

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 8, 2010 12:08:26 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 8, 2010 12:29:26 PM PDT
YTWong says:
Agreed...and people who write what Craig write, obviously didn't do their research and didn't use their own critical thinking to decide what's facts...

Posted on Oct 8, 2010 12:25:20 PM PDT
Humming....

If it is so safe as you are alluding to. How do you explain the linear progression between increased introduction of GMO foods and food allergies? When there were hardly ever this many people with food allergies prior to the introduction of GMO crops?

Why is it when an Immunologist decides to try something different, and has a patient with a known food allergy, try 2 different 'samples' of food, they in a high percentage of cases, only react to one? Which is in fact, a GMO version of that food?

Why will animals not eat GMO foods?

UCS Study Says Genetically Modified Crops Have Failure to Yield http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documents/food_and_agriculture/failure-to-yield.pdf

Genetically Engineered Agriculture Results in Increased Herbicide Usage; Weed Resistance, Farming Costs and Health Concerns on the Rise http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/11/genetically-engineered-agriculture.php

Secret Monsanto Genetically Engineered Potato Study Suppressed for 8 Years http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_4167.cfm

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 8, 2010 12:27:41 PM PDT
GRR DTOM says:
<Exactly. Monsanto couldn't guarantee food safety if they wanted to. Do you want them to be responsible for the safety of our food supply? They are a business, and they are supposed to make money, just like your place of work.>

Right their is the very problem, and the fact that the writer even wrote this shows a bit of naivete as to how things work in DC. As of 20 years ago, The FDA no longer independently tests anything for health and human safety. Via the lobbyists and scum political bureaucrats (read "senior Congressional leadership") the FDA has been watered down to a bare shell of its former self, and has turned over the safety testing to the very corporations that are vetting them to license their products. On top of that, in order to get the FDA to license their products they now have to pay the FDA a hefty fee. This is little more than a convoluted bribery and extortion scheme. And on top of that, the political appointees picked out to head the FDA are made aware on day one by every corporate greed-monger out there that if they license their most potentially lucrative products there will be a nice 6-figure do-nothing job waiting for them when their duty is up. This isn't science fiction or some wacko conspiracy theory, it's absolute fact and it's going on right now. Ergo, the recent case of the CDC Chief resigning and taking a handsome position as the head of Merck's vaccine program after scamming the govt into buying $1 billion of Swine Flu vaccine. This kind of revolving door and favoritism between the public and private sectors is happening across virtually every govt agency because we the people have completely lost control of our govt and they know it.

But back to the main topic, it is at least of some luck to us that there are 3rd party independent studies coming out now showing that animals fed GMOs are succumbing to unnatural chronic illness, including cancer, nervous disorders, sterility and damage to the part of their DNA that gets passed down to their offspring. In other words, when we eat those same GMOs the same thing is happening to us. There is no other logical conclusion, unless of course the only thing you trust are Monsanto's own white papers.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 8, 2010 12:32:55 PM PDT
GRR DTOM says:
<FYI, GMO produce IS sprayed. It is genetically modified to be resistant to herbicides that would normally kill it, or it is modified to contain a pesticide within the plant to kill bugs that try to eat it.>

Exactly. Who here - raise your hand - actually wants to eat food sprayed with herbicides that also produces its own pesticides when you try to eat it?

Those of you who raised your hand, do you also take comfort in knowing that said food was grown in soil completely devoid of life because it was sterilized by those same pesticides and herbicides?

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 9, 2010 10:18:07 AM PDT
grandma of 4 says:
Hot Hands, I was thinking the same thing as you. Hummingbirder must either work for Monsanto or hold a large amount of their stock. I have been reading about some of the unethical doings of Monsanto for years. Something needs to be done to stop some of what this company is doing but I'm sure they have some good lobbiest that are buying a lot of our members of government.
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Discussion in:  Health forum
Participants:  175
Total posts:  7607
Initial post:  Sep 23, 2010
Latest post:  1 day ago

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