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The Honey Revolution

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In reply to an earlier post on Jan 28, 2010 8:02:54 PM PST
aphra says:
Hey John, I guessed right it was you who created this forum!

Best from Aphra!!

Posted on Jan 29, 2010 2:06:37 AM PST
G'day, Aphra. Yes, it would suit me to do most of my posting away from other people's threads, as I do tend to be a bit polarising, but until this one gets a few more hits I have to keep tormenting folk elsewhere. The news MUST go through!

I see the forum police have been already to flag the posts as non productive. They sure do have a lot of energy to expend fighting the good honey, do they not?

The prejudice is deep, long standing and encouraged by modern trends................ up 'til now, anyway. I expect the trend of 'back to basics' continuing to grow. People are really fed up with being medicated into oblivion. Especially when it takes all their money to feed the habit.

The simple life, simple fare and a free spirit are all so inexpensive yet produce the very best long term results.

Where, when and how did you get your grounding and first excursions into natural living? You must have been going for a while now. I think we both know it takes years to completely reprogram the brain not the think with the mainstream. There is such a mountain of UN-learning to do it leaves less time to do the actual learning.



In reply to an earlier post on Jan 29, 2010 6:51:28 PM PST
aphra says:
Well John, its hard to tell how it all began. Both my parents ( my father died when I was 14 and my mom dies when I was 17) died of cancer in mid-late 1970's. Clearly this concerned me and when I went to college I was trying to put the pieces together. Not being a health major, I didn't have any formal training but started to become a bit of the global citizen.
I lived in France for 1-year and began to have a good appreciation of excellent food. I learned to shop daily, select high quality food and appreciate methods of preparation. I also learned to manage eating much smaller portions. More importantly I learned more about the world in terns of politics. Because food and scarcity is really a use of power of the rich nations against the poorer ones. This insight is a relatively recent one.But when I lived in France, I realized that next to most totalitarian regimes , the news in the USA is some of the most controlled in the world. I learned to become a political animal. I learned that the food pyramid was changed by the meat and dairy industries in or around 1920. Prior to that it was a more grain based/vegetable based with modest amounts of meat.

So, from a political level I learned much about the economics of food. In Diet for a Small Planet ( Lappe) the book deals with the diminishing nutritional value of wheat in the USA. Due to over production, the minerals are being leached out. She also deals how smaller nations have become 1-crop countries to supply the wealthier nations.
All this being said, I developed bad eating habits in corporate America. When one works 12 - hour days its food on the go, impaired sleep, lack of exercise. Stress-o-rama!
So my return to healthy eating after years of y o-yo dieting was an integration of a spiritual quest. In any tradition there need to be a heart/head discipline. The USA and others is so out of whack, it would be humorous if it wasn't so tragic. At the time I was making a significant 6-figure salary so I devote myself to special coaches. With my personal trainer, I learned how to care for my body from the inside out.
During this journey, I began to explore my inner world and only then did weight loss become permanent. Particularly for woman weight loss is an emotional issue. Once one gets out of their way, they can make real changes.
At this time I became aware of pioneers in the field of health: Paul Bragg who introduced me to fasting, Ann Wigmore, the Diamonds - Fit for Life , exploring food habits around the world that created vibrant living. The Okinawa diet was an interesting read too.
My biggest frustration on the forum is the insistence on scientific research. Many scientist are being paid by corporations who at the very minimum slant research. It seems so simple to live as close to nature as possible. Clearly if one lives in Manhattan or Sydney, they can't grow much of their own food. The trust in the Scientific community is really misplaced. I remember being told by physicians that it was a waste of money to buy vitamins. These same people now are advocating their use.

I've been amazed at the ant-honey contingent. I think they need to see a special study instead of thousands of years of use. From my Bragg books, I have a tall glass of distilled water, 2 heaping tablespoons of raw honey, 2 tablespoons of Bragg's Apple Cider Vinegar. Throughout the day I have about 80 oz of water. Fresh fruits, 2 salads a day, whole wheat. The medical community will not be making any fortune off of me.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 30, 2010 12:47:24 AM PST
Good Story, Aphra. You are a wise soul. The loss of your parents so early has forced you to do your own thinking .........maybe? Your conclusions are totally valid.

The scientific method is a wonderful tool. But, like a wheelbarrow, it can be used for multiple purposes. There is little room for morality in science. Without morality, scientist can become as evil as anyone else.

Thinking it through for ourselves takes a lot of time, work and energy. You did not acquire your solid foundations of understanding overnight. Neither did I. I was Climbing Squaw Peak in Scottsdale Arizona with Paul Bragg in the mid Fifties as my father was studying his methods at that time. It takes a lifetime of experience to establish one's self in his own individual terms.

A college graduate is full of facts, yes, but mainly of someone else's choosing. Universities only teach what is good for the system. Individuals have to think it through for themselves if they want to be in any manner whatsoever better off than the average. If they see themselves as anything other than just a statistic or a numbered citizen.

Unfortunately in Westernised societies (maybe all societies now), being loaded with chronic health problems is normal. Being healthy, drug free and confident of remaining healthy is now a rare condition, almost to the point of being considered an oddity. Only the lucky few (apparently) enjoy a life without chronic disease and the fear of disease. Such a very few have advanced to the point where they see health as something that can be achieved individually by the diligent application of sound thinking.

The system has let them down or at least promoted the material and financial advantages of the masses above their long term health. To be healthy now, one must ignore the system and think for himself.

An obese person is storing far more water than fat. Indeed it is a watery condition. Water and emotions are synonymous. The Overeaters Anonymous movement was originally called Emotions Anonymous as I understand it. I suppose they changed the name of it to accommodate people who couldn't't admit they were emotional but could admit they were overeating.

We are all emotional as water is a quarter of the elemental reality we are:, earth, air and water.......... that's what we all are! We deny or neglect any one of those quadrants to our peril.

Yes, the anti-honey lobby are very vocal. They know what a threat to the economic survival of the system honey and apiary products are. The higher they climb in the system the better they understand that part of things.

Here's a quote from an article in the Journal of the American Apitherapy Society authored by Eberhard Bengschs:

"Biomolecular medicine has developed a large body of knowledge about the origin, evolution, and metabolic details of the world's major pathologies; tumors, cardiovascular diseases, infections, neurodegenerative diseases and dementia, psychiatric disorders, allergies and autoimmune disorders, diabetes mellitus and insulin resistance. Yet conventional medicine has failed to heal them. According to the medical paradigm, diagnostics are perfect, but healing possibilities are either poor or unavailable.

In contrast, apitherapy - the application of classical bee products (honey, royal jelly, propolis, pollen, venom and waxes) and new preparations, (larvae extracts, bee bread) - can in many cases prevent, heal, or at least positively affect these pathologies.

Put simply, apitherapy heals but cannot explain, whereas molecular medicine explains but often cannot heal. The logical consequence is to bring together both disciplines - to consider them complementary not competing, therapeutic approaches." End of Quote.

Obviously to JohnS this bringing together is not likely to happen in these forums for a while yet. Perhaps there are silent practitioners in here just waiting for the right moment to come on strong, but it may be a totally non productive activity for them too. At least I have a mission to accomplish, i.e. to bring honey to the attention of as many as I can.

It follows too, that neither the patient nor the system in mainstream medicine really wants the maladies to disappear altogether. The patient loves his/her disease as it gives them a crutch to lean on, an excuse to hide behind and a story to tell at church. The system has everything to gain by programmed regular visits and sales of products.

A keen physician cannot do much for a non cooperative patient, any more than a patient keen to restore complete health can get very much encouragement from the system (i.e. there are no subsidies for being well, no encouragement, no praise, no recognition! Health is a word for the department that sells diseases).

But, what the heck? We can go ahead and be healthy all by our little ole self!

I'm glad it works for you, Arpha. I only wish more people would employ similar methods.

Cheers for now,


Posted on Jan 30, 2010 4:59:35 PM PST
For those who love beekeepers:

Posted on Jan 31, 2010 12:31:47 AM PST
E. Champney says:
So, just a question going back to the original post about honey being a cure-all and good medicine... How is honey supposed to help someone who is allergic to the stuff to the point where he or she basically has a coughing fit any time he or she has a drop of the stuff? Just saying, since I know a few people like that...

Posted on Jan 31, 2010 11:24:14 AM PST
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Posted on Jan 31, 2010 3:17:32 PM PST
Margaret says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Jan 31, 2010 4:54:09 PM PST
[Deleted by the author on Jan 31, 2010 4:58:28 PM PST]

Posted on Jan 31, 2010 5:10:31 PM PST
Sue says:
Excess fructose can cause fatty liver, high uric acid levels leading to gout.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 31, 2010 7:07:15 PM PST
Ouch, that sounds like real misery, E. Champney. It would be difficult indeed to sweeten that person up.

So far I have not known of anyone like that yet, so have no experience with it. But I have had the odd occasion where the same thing happened to me when consuming hot summer honey straight out of the hive and carelessly let honey run down the throat and into the windpipe. I was never sophisticated enough to convert that experience into an allergy. I would probably put it down to talking and swallowing at the same time.

I guess you could try tube feeding or rectal enemas, and in desperation you may even consider intravenous injection but that one should be fully tested on animals first.

Perhaps this is a condition (however rare) that prompted Cleopatra to bathe in honey? It would take a lot of honey to fill a bath tub, but if your client isn't rich perhaps his/her insurance provider would pick up the tab?

The skin is very willing usually to absorb honey. If one finger in is OK, and the hand doesn't suddenly drop off, perhaps one could immerse two fingers, etc.

A full case history would be an advantage too in trying to understand this condition. For instance, is it a psychological aversion? Are there swallowing difficulties with glucose and other sweeteners? Does dilution change the response? Is the patient bedridden? Are there any malformations of the throat, the tonsils, the palette, etc.? Perhaps we could get a grant to do some research on this fascinating problem? This could be quite urgent too, if we find this condition popping up frequently.

But thanks for the prompt. I will go back and research just who said honey was a Cure All. That is a pretty strong statement, even if YOU did use it. If I personally had this allergy I am sure I could find a way around it or fix it and forget it. But Alas, this is your patient we are talking about here, so you have to do some head work too.

Unless, of course, you only wanted to make conversation.......... which I am always glad to respond to.

Rare cases do not make consensus science. They need to be seen in the context of their statistical importance. Honey remains a great foodstuff/medicine for most humans and many animals. It is not a cure all, that designation needs to be reserved for FAITH.



In reply to an earlier post on Jan 31, 2010 7:20:23 PM PST
Sorry, Jason. I don't know where you are getting that from!

Honey is better for circulation than pretty much any other medicine.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 31, 2010 7:28:14 PM PST
Correct Sue, especially if the fructose comes from High Fructose Corn Syrup.

Agave syrup probably supplies excessive fructose, as the body seems to like it best when in balance with glucose. Surplus fructose would convert to fat almost immediately, especially if it were from ripe fruits. Islanders, for instance, whose diet contains a considerable amount of fructose are by nature well rounded. Honey, contrarily, does not seem to store readily. So much would depend on what the other components of the diet included.

When used in sensible amounts, honey promotes energy, activity and mental acuity. Glucose seems to promote bodily feeding, whereas fructose seems to promote brain activity. A few spoons of honey a day can keep one off the couch!

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 1, 2010 7:16:38 AM PST
I was going to just ignore you like usual but this was just too much.

"The patient loves his/her disease as it gives them a crutch to lean on, an excuse to hide behind and a story to tell at church"

Yes, please go poll diabetics, cancer patients and anyone else with terminal illnesses to see how much they love the disease.

I get it, you want to sell honey, but at least try to not sound like a giant dbag while you're doing it. I still think you're just a snake oil salesman, and good luck getting the saps to buy your product. There are suckers born every minute and you're right there waiting to take advantage of them and sell them your "panacea". Hey, maybe you should say it cures baldness too?

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 1, 2010 8:13:22 AM PST
honey has a waxy residue that sticks to the arteries, but hey i'm not trying to discourage anyone from indulging, merely take it in small do9es at irregular intervals, and then drink a glass of red wine which will help dissolve the wax and save you the expense and trauma of heart surgery.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 1, 2010 11:19:45 AM PST
aphra says:
Most people would only use small doses. On the day that I fast, I use 2 Tablespoons of raw honey in my water. When I have a mufin, I drizzle some honey. Cosmeticall, I use 1 teasppon and have marvelous results.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 1, 2010 11:31:58 AM PST
aphra says:
Great that you met Paul Bragg. I know he has/had popualrity in Australia too.
I know there are people on this thread that objected to your saying that people enjoy their illnesses. I think I would term it that they want to go along with the program ( whether that is what their doctor/philosophy/religion/country dictates) even if it harms them. The world view of many people is stronger than their own individual self-preservation. Another way to say it is that many people are sheep.
Few people question their doctors. I'm not talking about authority here, but different alternatives and alternative therapies too. Years ago, the patient relied on their care providers. In todays global world, one can't count on their care providers ( in the USA, they are there to push you in and out as soon as possible)and I have a homeopathic doctor that doesn't take insurance but when I go in to see him he will spend several hours ( for a fee of $450) and really concern himself iwth my health. In the USA the average person (MAYBE) gets 15 min. with their physician for around 1/2 that cost.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 1, 2010 4:01:27 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 1, 2010 4:03:44 PM PST
Indeed Arpha, the masses are more concerned with the price than they are with the value.

People 'love' their disease in the sense that they are terrified of what life would be without it. It becomes their 'thing' their 'crutch' and without it they would have to stand up and play the game on an equal footing with everyone else. They have put perfect health in second place at least, if not 3rd tenth or last. If they didn't want to cling to their disease they could let go of it and be cured. They choose to cling.

If we tell them they can be cured, they retort 'My doctor says I will have it for the rest of my life.' They are happy to believe that. When any person decides s/he is finished with the disease, most probably it will commence to cure, fade away and be forgotten. OK, so what if it reoccurs? Same procedure; stop causing it, change to a better plan, be willing to give it up, cure it and forget it again.

The worst thing we can do with any unhappiness is talk about it constantly, especially after it has grown old. Ever notice how people who constantly go on and on about their diseases are usually very lonely? No one want to listen to them any more. Even their doctors get sick of them and put the timer on when they come in the door.

Sure, when your leg has just been amputated, you will talk about it. But if you get going, run in the Olympics and come third, you forget to talk about it. It is all about your focus. Being focused on disease perpetuates it. Dismissing it and finding something promising to talk about is far better. Those people never seem to realise that everyone has health problems of some sort at some time or the other, but some never speak about them. So the constant harangue the sickos go on with convinces them that they are unique and unlucky as they are the only person in the room who is sick. In a sense, they are correct. They are really sick!

People who talk about their diseases all the time love that talk, they love their diseases, they will perpetuate them............... until they (not their doctor) decide to quit it.

So here's the Plan I use: Decide that the disease is no longer useful to me, find ways to improve my health, quit talking (and later thinking) about it. Forget about it and get on with a happy and healthy life.

People WISH they didn't have the discomfort of the disease, but they WANT to keep the payola that it brings them. Dr. Phil preaches this all the time, but few want to take it to heart. So work it out, the payola wins, the doctor wins, the pill makers win, the economy wins and the government gets the taxation. WOW. it is a great system (for the masses) but I prefer to get rid of my diseases as soon as possible so I can get on and sell some more honey! If it works for me it can work for anyone else.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 1, 2010 10:12:16 PM PST
aphra says:
Its interesting, I'm working with someone at my college regarding retraining our subconscious. Clearly what we think about, we create. The more one dwells on their issues, the more it perpetuates itself.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 2, 2010 7:14:44 AM PST
Honestly you are just a complete nutcase. Its interesting just how full of yourself you are. Does honey make you an arrogant ahole as well? Or was that your personality before you started ingesting it?

Posted on Feb 2, 2010 6:08:44 PM PST
LOL can't fix ignorance. It's easy to spew at the mouth when you haven't actually been through something. I would love to say that hopefully something happens to you so you can understand what it's truly like to live with a disease, but I wouldn't really wish that on anyone. I enjoy reading up on people with Bipolar Disorder. It's inspiring to read about people reaching stability. I must be missing all the books on people who have found the cure for this disease though ;o) I find it highly amusing that you think someone would enjoy going through the ups and downs that make you more often than not want to end your life. It only makes it more amusing that you're slipping the miraculous honey thing in there. Who knew that was the answer to everyone's problems! Oh, I'm sorry, I feel like I'm starting to sound like John now..

Posted on Feb 2, 2010 8:45:44 PM PST
Right on, Jessica, ignorance is the hardest disease of them all to fix. Even honey has a real struggle with that one. I do believe it helps alleviate some of the symptoms, just the same, but the complete cure either eludes me or appears to be a multi-generational syndrome. When I have completely cured myself, I will get back to you.
You guys are making that scientific mistake so common today. You are focusing on the detail in an ever divisive manner when what I am doing is focusing on a more holistic approach.

I understand as clearly as you do that the world's fattest man will probably never be cured of much of anything. He has possibly gone past the point of return. Let's hope his final years on this planet are comfortable and enjoyable for him. However, the general public, as a whole, need to learn a different philosophy, they need a new paradigm. They may never get it from the established regimes. Arpha and her colleague are working on some real stuff that will help everyone, yes even including the world's fattest man, if only they could hear about it, pick up on it and practice it. They won't.............. not in great numbers or percentages.

But for those who can, for those who want to improve their general health and avoid all of this `incurable `talk there is good news. It is everywhere one looks, if only his brain allows him to see it. It is in ancient text, modern libraries and even in the amazon health forums (The Honey Revolution thread?). So I just leave all these incurable cases to the system and get on conversing with those who are headed in the opposite direction to the one way street the incurable have trod. It is more about the direction we take than it is about the minute details of what science can find out about my gammy foot.

Sorry about your bi-polar disorder, Jessica. It's all in your head, you know? You can fix it when you are ready, if you get ready. Sure, it has a bio-chemical component too, and chemicals impact on it, but basically it is the product of life, it is just a situation you have found yourself in, it has now been named and you have the challenge of getting out from under that black cloud if you want to. We all have bi-polar tendencies, as we have a split brain, and varying factors determine how we use both halves. But in moments of top energy, I suspect you can just go ahead and do whatever it is you want to do in life. Everyone else does, and in fact, what you are doing right now may be just that.

There is hardly a statement about anything that would apply in absolute certainty to every human on the planet. If that is what you are expecting from me, you might as well quit reading my posts.

Thanks for your honesty, Doc. It is becoming a scarce commodity. Indeed, I was fed honey as a small boy. What a stroke of good luck that was!

Arpha, what about you opening a thread to discuss some aspect of your work? Have you read the book,
Love Your Disease

Cheers to all. Thanks for the conversation.


Posted on Feb 3, 2010 7:16:34 AM PST
Shane Ploof says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Feb 3, 2010 1:26:27 PM PST
aphra says:
Jessica, I remember years ago reading about a health spa in Mexico that had great results with Bi-polar conditions with juice fasting. Check into it.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 3, 2010 1:29:51 PM PST
aphra says:
Looked at the book. Looks great. Its in the Louise Hay category, O should read it.
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