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Who Thinks "The Honey Revolution" Is So Much Hype?


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Initial post: Oct 27, 2012 9:44:00 AM PDT
Spinoza says:
I think that honey is naturally occurring product used for millennia by humans as food, and now in sterile medical dressings, and has no other further purpose or effect in improving physical health or preventing disease,

And that, therefore, "The Honey Revolution" is so much marketing hype.

Any thoughts?

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 27, 2012 9:48:26 AM PDT
I think you will likely get a reply from John Smith!

Spinoza, what you have to consider when you post on these forum is that there is a very-real contingent of people that absolutely believe things that have no basis in reality.

Have you read the other discussions on cancer and vaccination?

Posted on Oct 27, 2012 1:00:59 PM PDT
Andrew King says:
The forums are also full of people who believe in a single Miracle Supplement/Food or therapeutic approach that vanquishes most or all diseases (naturally, the Evil Pharma Overlords are suppressing these cures, or else we'd all be using them and living practically forever).

Honey is just another massively overhyped Miracle Product, along with cider vinegar, glyconutrients, resveratrol, acai juice, pomegranate juice, coconut oil, MMS, coffee enemas, colloidal silver and tons of other things. If any one of them could live up to the claims made for it, we wouldn't need all the rest.

People are always looking for short cuts. They're unable or unwilling to recognize that eating a balanced diet, losing weight, exercising, avoiding stress and getting plenty of sleep will do far more for their health than wasting their time and money on Miracle Products.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 28, 2012 5:50:37 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 28, 2012 5:51:08 AM PDT
Spinoza says:
Michael Wasson says:

I think you will likely get a reply from John Smith!

Spinoza says:

I'm hoping to, although I'm not expecting anything more than defenses of, and marketing for, honey.

Michael Wasson says:

Spinoza, what you have to consider when you post on these forum is that there is a very-real contingent of people that absolutely believe things that have no basis in reality.

Spinoza says:

You have a talent for understatement.

Michael Wasson says:

Have you read the other discussions on cancer and vaccination?

Spinoza says:

Unfortunately, yes, and I've added my two cents when appropriate.

What is truly disturbing is, in these times of major transitions in healthcare, such as the increasing financial responsibility people have for their own healthcare, comes a very real necessity to have accurate, timely, health information. Basing our national or personal healthcare on anecdote, hearsay, legends, obsolete systems of medicine, or old wive's tales is a recipe for disaster.

People need to start thinking seriously about their health, and their healthcare system.

Posted on Oct 28, 2012 8:32:18 AM PDT
Andrew King says:
"What is truly disturbing is, in these times of major transitions in healthcare, such as the increasing financial responsibility people have for their own healthcare, comes a very real necessity to have accurate, timely, health information. Basing our national or personal healthcare on anecdote, hearsay, legends, obsolete systems of medicine, or old wive's tales is a recipe for disaster."

What's also disturbing is the percolation of woo into mainstream medical care. There was a puff piece in today's paper about one of our hospital systems opening up a new cancer center. The emphasis of the p.r. on this event was not clinical outcomes, or even more mundane matters like waiting times to see a doctor. No, the big deal was that this is a "holistic" cancer center, treating "the whole person". I guess we're supposed to believe that the medical teams in other places are heartless robots who view patients as only a collection of malfunctioning body parts.

I'll believe the new place is superior in "holistic" terms when it can demonstrate to me that its patients are living longer, healthier lives in addition to undergoing less red tape and expense.

Posted on Oct 29, 2012 6:07:19 PM PDT
OK, Guys, rather that disappoint you, I will contribute to your little conversation. Any pack of dogs do better with a rabbit running around the yard, aye?

Now that you are ignoring honey and speaking collectively and theoretically about health care, let me put you straight. You did follow the modern trend, aye? You put honey on the label, despite the fact you did not really wish to speak about it!

We will always be caring for the sick. It is part of human nature. It is noble! But alas, the more you care for a sick infant, the more care that infant will demand as he/she matures and goes through life. Indeed, America, and to a lesser extent the whole world has become a caring society. And the generations to follow will include increasing percentages of professional invalids!

Since the development of nuclear weapons, the production of the machines and the defences of war is losing its importance as a means of continuing to maintain our lifestyle amidst the burgeoning expansion of our populations. In fact, the absence of war, especially on American soil, and the loss of life it engenders, probably had more impact on the longevity averages than the use of flush toilets and hypodermic needles did.

So it follows, that we are now heavily reliant on the caring of the sick, the old, the disadvantaged etc., to create enough jobs to keep us all occupied and playing at the great monopoly board. The current Medical Culture is cleverly suited to exponential growth of both the economy and the population. We simply create enough disease in each infant born, to generate enough economic activity within our medical systems, that he/she can remain adequately employed throughout their working life, and still provide for them into their old age. It works perfectly well, and the more we expand the population, the more we spin the dollar wheel.

And so we have the song without end! ?

No, nothing that has a beginning can escape having an ending.

As the money spins and all the gold ends up with one player, we find things changing. As iatrogenic diseases rear their ugly head, as overpopulation spikes turn into old age care spikes (especially with a population that were mollycoddled as infants) it becomes increasingly difficult to satisfy the young, the vigorous and the ambitious. Our society changes from a caring one to a dog eat dog one, until something or somebody goes under.

No one knows when our music will end and the scramble for chairs will occur, but we can all see that the number of chairs is not progressing as fast as the number of dancers. Hence the absolutely critical need to keep the music going ad nauseum, which of course changes the fun content of the game.

Those in charge of the music, work overtime in their efforts to keep it going. Those who are too old or distanced from the chairs start to prepare for what happens when the music does stop. Some opt out of the game, as did the Hippies of the Seventies. Their message was constructive in a way, and the music took on a new beat, but did not stop. However, if folk dropped out in excessive numbers, the music would be playing to an empty house.

Those of us who can see the direction our culture is taking us see the return to basic methods to care for the sick as just one of the tricks we use to prepare for changing times. The simple methods of living, eating, relating to our neighbours, and dealing with our misfortunes become our culture and we distance ourselves from the mainstream culture, i.e. placing all our trust in the system, be it government, church or company.

I have studied many philosophies of self help, individualised health, personal survival, etc. but continue to play at the monopoly board. My industry (Honey Production) has been pushed aside by more profitable approaches to caring for the sick, so I undertake the challenge of promoting my products just as vigorously as the system markets its high-tech and revenue producing ones. Because the system is now a religious temple more than a scientific mindset, it struggles to survive without resorting to many acts of subterfuge, cover-ups and deceit, not to mention outright denial and lies, and it becomes exceedingly difficult to keep my industry afloat in the surging tide of mainstream propaganda and platitudes, promises and visions for the future.

Indeed the Pied Piper has taken the kids!

So I come here to speak with folk likeminded to myself, and to provide an opposing view for those who are losing their conviction that the Empire is a Holy One, and are hungry for the smell of the garden soil and the realities of their very own personal existence. I preach honey to those people as my main topic, simply because they need to buy some if I am going to survive. If they are of a mindset that does not allow that honey is good for keeping one fed, warm, healthy and sane, then there is little use in my buying advertising to sell them my Wheatgrass Juice.

So far Danni has not joined this discussion, but she would make it Five Amigos, thus replacing the 'Three Amigos' name we once had for you guys. Most clear thinking folk who are in an economic position sufficient to allow them to speak their true feelings have declared you guys apologist, shills or employees of the great world systems (ignore national boundaries). At best a few of your sympathisers are honest to a degree, having shut out of their thinking any messages received from their conscience or their pre-dawn dreams of what reality might be without their social support. They have duped themselves, following on from their formal training cum brainwashing.

I constantly refer as adequate proof or source for many of my conclusions these two books:
The Honey Revolution: Restoring the Health of Future Generations
The Hibernation Diet

Those of you five who have read them decline to admit to it, but rather all in harmony, you decry them and scoff at any and all aspects of their existence. This only adds fuel to the fire for those who come here looking for `other' perspectives on health and survival.

Your double blind approach to supporting your boss adds spice to these discussions, keeps folk like me on the keyboard and you are an important part of what makes amazon forums the fertile and vibrant place it is. Remember, it is not the flintstone nor the flintlock, it is the SPARK that matters.

Eat honey my son, for it is good!

Cheers,

John$

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 29, 2012 7:14:32 PM PDT
Spinoza says:
Jeez, what a ridiculous, frothy, overblown, dramatic, post of nonsense saying nothing, and not worth responding to.

I hope you don't write the copy for your own advertising. It's like reading from Collier's circa 1912.

The medical profession does not cause disease, especially not in children. They treat and cure disease.

You are truly a piece of work, John.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 30, 2012 12:27:43 AM PDT
Hey, I thought ParrotSlave might like that one. He and I both commune with the birds to gain material for some of our more fanciful fabrications.

Does amazon give us as Opening Posters the facillity to delete threads also? I have not thought to look for that one, but if you want to cut my responses in half, Spinoza, why don't you just axe this one and let it bee no more.

Cheers,

John$

Posted on Oct 30, 2012 8:23:59 AM PDT
Not sure where this honey revolution is. There is NO state in the US with less than a 20 percent obesity rate. Until we are healthier as a human race, there is actually no need to eat honey. We can get the exact same nutrients from healthier foods with much less calorie content.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 30, 2012 10:52:42 AM PDT
Oregongirl says:
No. Once a thread has started only Amazon can delete an entire thread. Unless there are zero responses to the OP, and the OP deletes the solo post.

As to your muscle flexing suggestion there John, Spinoza other posters have as much right to voice their opinion as you do.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 30, 2012 2:14:23 PM PDT
Spinoza says:
TD5757/D. A. Webster says:

Not sure where this honey revolution is. There is NO state in the US with less than a 20 percent obesity rate. Until we are healthier as a human race, there is actually no need to eat honey. We can get the exact same nutrients from healthier foods with much less calorie content.

Spinoza says:

My sentiments exactly. Honey is basically fructose with a higher water content than table sugar.

But what about the claims that it can prevent or cure disease? ;-)

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 30, 2012 2:19:25 PM PDT
Spinoza says:
John L. Smith says:

Hey, I thought ParrotSlave might like that one. He and I both commune with the birds to gain material for some of our more fanciful fabrications.

Spinoza says:

Fanciful describes it well. Rambling and making no sense at all does, as well.

John L. Smith says:

Does amazon give us as Opening Posters the facillity to delete threads also? I have not thought to look for that one, but if you want to cut my responses in half, Spinoza, why don't you just axe this one and let it bee no more.

Spinoza says:

Sure. You go first, John. Delete your thread, and I'll do the same. :-)

Or, if it really bugs you, just put me on ignore and you'll never have to be bothered with the inconvenient truth again. This thread will be hidden to you.

Cheers,

Spinoza

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 1, 2012 2:08:54 PM PDT
S. Kessler says:
Ha, ha, Michael. If you know Spinoza from the Religion Forum you'd know that he is already very well acquainted with people who believe what they want despite all evidence to the contrary. And for what it's worth, Spinoza, I completely agree on this silly honey-hype. Honey is sugar. Yes it has more minerals and vitamins than white sugar if it hasn't been processed too much (and most supermarket "honey" isn't really honey at all but just another processed sugar product with honey flavoring added), but the body still metabolizes it like sugar.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 1, 2012 2:10:13 PM PDT
S. Kessler says:
Andrew: People are always looking for short cuts. They're unable or unwilling to recognize that eating a balanced diet, losing weight, exercising, avoiding stress and getting plenty of sleep will do far more for their health than wasting their time and money on Miracle Products.

SK: So true.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 1, 2012 2:17:55 PM PDT
S. Kessler says:
Oh, so John is merely a salesperson for his "product". I haven't read the other honey threads,so haven't been in this discussion before, but have seen John's posts in other diet threads. I should have figured he's just peddling nonsense to make a living.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 2, 2012 12:51:56 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Nov 2, 2012 1:00:42 AM PDT
ParrotSlave says:
Are you saying that we don't possess magic Maxwellian demons that tell our bodies, "This molecule of sugar is from honey, don't metabolize it the way you would if it were to have come from corn syrup?" Or are you insisting perhaps that there does not exist some kind of "spirit" entity that inhabits each jar of honey, or possibly some kind of spirit entity that inhabits all of the honey in the world at one time, gaia-style, a spirit entity that controls all the molecules in all honey, evidently telekinetically, in order to control the way it gets metabolized, and, perhaps, add some kind of panacea power to it? How else would the contention you are bound to run into, that the whole is different than the sum of its parts, possibly be true (if it were to be true)? I think, when you get down to it, you're going to run into the contention that the individual molecules carry around some kind of itinerary, some kind of manifest of their sojourn through the universe, so that they are, somehow, different, depending on their origin, despite science saying that they are not different. The same kind of "logic" underlies the various bandwagons that claim that water has memory, and that a particular molecule that came out of a laboratory is different than the identical (to scientists) molecule that came out of a living being. To explain how such notions could be true, their believers must necessarily invoke unknown, unseen energies of some sort, or else some kind of physical difference between the molecules, a difference undetectable by science.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 2, 2012 3:14:56 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Nov 2, 2012 2:07:47 PM PDT
Spinoza says:
What John basically puts forth is the discredited theory of vitalism, nothing more.

Astounding that someone could believe in such a thing in this day and age.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 2, 2012 11:51:34 AM PDT
S. Kessler says:
I'm hearing Twilight Zone music, ParrotSlave. Yes, I get the sense that some people on this misbegotten planet of ours actually think the way your describe.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 2, 2012 11:52:40 AM PDT
S. Kessler says:
Considering what some of the Christans, Jews, and others on the Religion Forum believe, I'm not at all surprised by what I've read here.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 2, 2012 1:59:34 PM PDT
Spinoza says:
S. Kessler says:

...but have seen John's posts in other diet threads. I should have figured he's just peddling nonsense to make a living.

Spinoza says:

That was my first suspicion and original contention throughout the thread.

Posted on Nov 3, 2012 8:03:54 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Nov 3, 2012 8:17:51 AM PDT
Andrew King says:
I wonder why only some discredited theories (vitalism, Bechamp's alternative to germ theory, homeopathy) have supporters while others gather dust.

Where are all the alchemy defenders? There've been tons of personal testimonials over time from people who transmuted base metals into gold. So why don't we see YouTube videos on the subject and societies dedicated to restoring the reputation of this forgotten art?

After all, alchemy has the same virtues as other discarded ideas - it's ancient, mysterious and mainstream science scoffs at it. It should therefore automatically have popularity among anti-science cultists.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 3, 2012 8:17:41 AM PDT
Trephination too! Boy, I'd like to see some self-treatment with that being reported in here.

Posted on Nov 3, 2012 8:20:55 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Nov 3, 2012 8:21:14 AM PDT
Andrew King says:
And let's not forget bleeding. What a great way to draw off toxins - remove a pint or two of blood and you've just got to feel better.

And instead of modern psychiatric therapy and nasty pharma drugs to treat mental illness, we could return to the golden days of Benjamin Rush in the 18th century, when the staff at mental institutions dressed up as spirits of the dead to leap out at patients and frighten them back into sanity (this method was called "noninjurious torture").

Should be fun.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 3, 2012 8:23:43 AM PDT
Spinoza says:
Andrew King says:

And let's not forget bleeding. What a great way to draw off toxins - remove a pint or two of blood and you've just got to feel better.

And instead of modern psychiatric therapy and nasty pharma drugs to treat mental illness, we could return to the golden days of Benjamin Rush in the 18th century, when the staff at mental institutions dressed up as spirits of the dead to leap out at patients and frighten them back into sanity (this method was called "noninjurious torture").

Should be fun.

Spinoza says:

Or back to the days of the "dunking chair" (they'd strap you in a chair and dunk you repeatedly into freezing cold water) and constant physical restraint.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 3, 2012 8:45:23 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Nov 4, 2012 6:25:21 AM PST
Spinoza says:
TD5757/D. A. Webster says:

Trephination too! Boy, I'd like to see some self-treatment with that being reported in here.

Spinoza says:

There are actually some groups and organizations that promote the practice for non-medical reasons:

http://www.trepanationguide.com/

http://www.trepan.com/

Trepanation has a medical use: to relieve pressure on the brain so as to avoid damage to it. It has probably been performed for this purpose for thousands of years, and is called a craniotomy by doctors.

It's also been, and continues to be used, as a means of spiritual enlightenment. The idea is that, by opening the skull, one allows more oxygen to the brain (untrue), and therefore, higher consciousness.

Nonsense. Trepanation is a very dangerous procedure, even for a surgeon, to perform. There is risk of infection and damage to the brain by the procedure itself.

No one should be opening up their own skull with a drill. Period.

Trepanation

"A genius is one to whom the knowledge of the difference between yes and no is innate."

-- Dr. Bart Huges

Trepanation is the process of cutting a hole in the skull. According to John Verano, a professor of anthropology at Tulane University, trepanation is the oldest surgical practice and is still performed ceremonially by some African tribes. A trepanned skull found in France was dated at about 5,000 BCE. About 1,000 trepanned skulls from Peru and Bolivia date from 500 BCE to the 16th century.

Bart Huges (b. 1934), a medical school graduate who has never practiced medicine except for a bit of self-surgery, believes that trepanation is the way to higher consciousness. He says that he wanted to be a psychiatrist but failed the obstetrics exam and so never went into practice. In 1965, after years of experimentation with LSD, cannabis, and other drugs, Dr. Huges realized that the way to enlightenment was by boring a hole in his skull. He used an electric drill, a scalpel, and a hypodermic needle (to administer a local anesthetic). The operation took him 45 minutes. How does it feel to be enlightened? "I feel like I did when I was 14," says Huges.

What led Dr. Huges to believe that trepanation would lead to enlightenment? His first insight came when he was taught that he could get high by standing on his head. He came to believe that by permanently relieving pressure he could increase the flow of blood to the brain and achieve his goal. After he took a little mescaline he soon understood what was going on. "I recognized that the expanded consciousness was attributed to an increase in the volume of blood to the brain." How has such a simple fact eluded scientists and mystics alike for so many millennia?

In the past, trepanation was used either to relieve pressure on the brain caused by disease or trauma, or to release evil spirits. The former is still an accepted medical procedure. The latter has died out in those parts of the world where scientific understanding has replaced belief in invading demons. Huges has yet to command a large following of trepanners, but he has managed to attract a few supporters with holes in their heads. One of his most illustrious pupils was Amanda Fielding from Oxford, England, who not only lived through the filming of her self-surgery but also became a candidate for Parliament. She received 40 votes from the people of Chelsea in 1978 where she ran on the promise of free trepanation from the National Health Service.

Feilding maintains that having a hole in her head allows moreoxygen to reach her brain and helps expand her consciousness. It's safer than LSD, she says, apparently convinced those are her only two options to expand her consciousness. She claims she now has more energy and inspiration, and is on a permanent natural high. She claims the trepanned are better prepared to fight neurosis and depression and less likely to become prone to alcoholism and drug addiction. One could say that she is very open-minded.

It should go without saying but it must be said anyway: trepanation is risky and can cause brain damage and infection. Also, according to Sugey Restituyo, many trepanners "later claim to have alien contacts and join the Raël movement."

http://skepdic.com/trepanation.html

Do I have to point out the complete and utter stupidity of drilling a hole into your own skull, ladies and gentlemen?

Any procedure that a surgeon or a doctor would be cautious about, or refuse to perform on you, is probably contraindicated for a good reason. Listen to your medical professionals, and don't bore a hole in your skull, please?
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Discussion in:  Health forum
Participants:  8
Total posts:  27
Initial post:  Oct 27, 2012
Latest post:  Nov 3, 2012

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