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Anti Vaccines - Disease by Injection?

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In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 9:01:29 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 8, 2012 9:06:59 AM PDT
DJD says:
Michael Wasson: why don't you list the ingredients in these vaccines and make sure that you list the ingredients that were in them beginning in the 60's and 70's because the CDC doesn't list them. When you call for more info they tell you to contact the manufacturer, but they can't tell you which manufacturer produced which vaccine. Also, I wouldn't trust the manufacturer to be honest about what they used to put in vaccines. The CDC also doesn't list typhoid vaccine anywhere as part of the scheduled vaccines, but my husband's immunization card has it listed. What else might we have been vaccinated with that isn't listed on the schedules they provide. The CDC is hiding information from the public. If they wanted the public to have the information they would provide it.

A potentized homeopathic remedy doesn't have trace amounts of anything. Obviously, you don't know what you are talking about. Your stuck because you want something that is physically quantifiable. If it isn't measurable by your method or some method then it doesn't exist. Study your quantum physics. Energy cannot be destroyed it only changes form. If the frequency of a remedy changes it isn't the same thing but what is it? Homeopathic remedies at different potencies have different frequencies. They can't be exactly the same something is different about them. what is different--they become more potent. Is a 5mg of adderall the same as a 10mg of adderall-no. Is it still adderall-yes. Ah - but these can be measured--but what if the amount remaining goes beyond Avagadro's number? It can't be measured but does that mean some effect of its having been there is not still remaining. You need to get your head out of the last century and get into the 21st century with your thinking!

p.s. Aspartame is not really sucrose, so when they list sucrose do they mean sugar or a synthetic poison such as Aspartame! Formaldehyde aka formalin are listed on the CDC list of ingredients along with the others I mentioned.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 9:17:01 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 8, 2012 9:22:24 AM PDT
"Michael Wasson: why don't you list the ingredients in these vaccines and make sure that you list the ingredients that were in them beginning in the 60's and 70's"

Why should I, or anyone else, worry about what was in a vaccine they took in the 60's?

"Also, I wouldn't trust the manufacturer to be honest about what they used to put in vaccines."

Translation: I will disbelieve anything I don't agree with at my leisure.

"A potentized homeopathic remedy doesn't have trace amounts of anything. Obviously, you don't know what you are talking about"

Doesn't have trace amounts of anything!? Obviously you failed high school chemistry because YOU don't know what you are talking about. Even ultra-pure substances have traces of other substances.

Study my physics!? 'Energy cannot be destroyed it only changes form' is the law of conservation of energy, not quantum physics! AND it was formulated in the 19th century!...so why exactly do you think your posts are 21st century?

You make a complete fool of yourself when you try and debate science, because you are parroting tidbits from people that know a little more than you do.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 9:21:15 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 8, 2012 9:24:05 AM PDT
"p.s. Aspartame is not really sucrose"

No kidding! sucrose is sucrose...basically table sugar. If an \ ingredient lists says "sucrose" it means "sucrose" not an artifical sweetener! Sucrose is added as a stabilizer (not a sweetener) so you cannot sustitute aspartame.

" Formaldehyde aka formalin are listed on the CDC list of ingredients along with the others I mentioned."

Because they are used to inactivate some viruses and it is impossible to remove all traces, so it must be listed as an ingredient. BTW How come you "believe" the CDC list of ingredients when it contains something you think is bad? I thought you didn't trust the CDC?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 9:27:35 AM PDT
DJD says:
You need to get beyond the science of the 19th century, but in many ways you are stuck scientifically. The physics pertains to the interaction of all forms of energy and the laws that govern their interaction which you don't know. Trace amounts of some things are in water but a homeopathic remedy is not water. Vaccines are poisons, homeopathy is not addictive and it can help remove these toxins from the body when used in conjunction with other good health practices that are safer than synthetic drugs being prescribed for every condition under the sun.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 9:30:10 AM PDT
DJD says:
Discernment is knowing how to differentiate the truth from a lie. I don't trust anyone who has the power to hurt people en masse that includes private organizations, businesses, governments, etc. I would be a fool to think that kind of power should be trusted.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 9:35:16 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 8, 2012 9:35:50 AM PDT
"You need to get beyond the science of the 19th century, but in many ways you are stuck scientifically."

I am stuck? You are the one that quoted a 19th century axiom, not me. I merely pointed out that you did WHILE admonishing me to update my scientific knowledge.

"Vaccines are poisons"

Anything (even ultra pure water) is a "poison" if taken if sufficient amounts. The level of extraneous ingredients in vaccines is not enough to cause harm. Your body is fully capable of removing trace amounts of things like aluminum from your system.

"The physics pertains to the interaction of all forms of energy and the laws that govern their interaction which you don't know."

Ah yes! Mysterious forms and functions of unquantified energy...in other words you can't prove it in any way accepted by the scientific method.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 9:40:14 AM PDT
"Discernment is knowing how to differentiate the truth from a lie"

Okay, so you believe that they will admit to having formaldehyde in vaccines, but they are keeping other things secret?

I am in a branch of science that is subject to FDA regulation. If we do not disclose a substance that we knowingly have in reagents, we would in a lot of trouble.

But what do I know, right?

Posted on Aug 8, 2012 9:40:19 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 8, 2012 9:42:14 AM PDT
Andrew King says:
The nonsense regarding formaldehyde in vaccines overlooks the fact that formaldehyde is continually produced in the body as part of normal metabolism. Both this formaldehyde and the smaller amounts that might be present in vaccines are handled by the body without any toxicity.

More on this and other "toxin" myths spread by antivaxers here:

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/2008/03/13/common-anti-vaccination-myths-and-misconceptions/

DJD: "When you call (the CDC) for more info they tell you to contact the manufacturer, but they can't tell you which manufacturer produced which vaccine...The CDC is hiding information from the public."

They're not doing a very good job of "hiding" it. I found info on manufacturers and vaccines on the CDC website using a Google search that took me about 10 seconds.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/c/manufact-qc.pdf

DJD: "You need to get your head out of the last century and get into the 21st century with your thinking!"

By advocating homeopathy, you're actually telling us to get our heads out of the 21st century and into the 19th.

DJD: "homeopathy is not addictive"

As CEO of King's Magic Homeopathy Water Detox Centers, I must differ with you. Water (what most homeopathy remedies consist of) is horribly addictive. Homeopathy advocates consume water daily and can't live without it. What more evidence do you need?

Posted on Aug 8, 2012 9:57:39 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 8, 2012 1:59:27 PM PDT
ParrotSlave says:
Who needs to go to school when you can learn so much chemistry just from reading these posts? I just now learned, for instance, that sucrose, formaldehyde, and aluminum hydroxide are supposedly a few of many unnatural poisons that are contained in vaccines. That is astounding.

I guess that DJD needs to contact all the sugar cane growers and manufacturers to get them to stop lying that their products contain sucrose. If it does not occur in nature, it could not possibly be present in sugar cane, now could it? I know there do exist people who consider table sugar a poison, because its overconsumption is linked to so many diseases, but I find it difficult to consider small amounts of it, such as a milligram or two, to be a poison, unless one is under the influence of a hallucinogen.

And I guess DJD needs to sue all the scientists on earth for their lies about formaldehyde being one of the oldest substances ever formed in the universe, and that it is found in stars as well as interstellar matter. Most of all, I guess he needs to sue the medical profession for claiming that every single human body contains formaldehyde as a natural metabolite (in trace amounts). The normal level of formaldehyde in a human breath, by the way, is a little more than 4 parts per billion. Someone with a mind might wonder why human beings possess an enzyme called formaldehyde dehydrogenase. Low levels of that enzyme have been implicated in the etiology of asthma and other respiratory diseases. If you were to stop all metabolic processes that result in the production of formaldehyde, you would end up having an embalmer injecting your veins with it.

Should DJD file a separate lawsuit against minerologists and geologists, all of whom are spreading the lie that aluminum hydroxide, which he claims is an unnatural poison, is found in nature as the mineral gibbsite? This horrid poison is being marketed as we speak in grocery stores and pharmacies across the nation, under brand names such as Gaviscon, Maalox and Mylanta. Perhaps DJD needs to start a campaign to warn the world about this horror.

And, goodness, I see talk about the evils of ammonium sulfate, which I remember my parents buying either 50 or 100 pound bags of decades ago, to feed the grass. So ammonium sulfate is now an unnatural poison? It's even used in foods, in flour and bread. Every meal you eat is bound, naturally, to contain some ammonium ions and some sulfate ions, at least here on our planet, which we call "earth." It would be within the realm of possibility, but totally impractical realistically, to eliminate all ammonium ions and all sulfate ions from our food. Since that's what happens to ammonium sulfate when it gets wet--it turns into those ions--there does not exist any food in the world, unless totally synthesized, that is free of ammonium sulfate.

I see that mercury is also "a synthetic chemical that doesn't occur in nature." How astounding. If mercury does not occur in nature, we need to get the environmentalists to stop their filthy libel against coal when they insist that burning coal puts mercury into the air, mercury that the plants that got turned into the coal collected while they were alive millions of years ago. Cinnabar, mercury ore, was used by humans millennia ago for body decorating, such as for the dead, and, amazingly and shockingly enough, is still used by some practitioners of Traditional Chinese Medicine and Ayurvedic medicine. Yes, mercury is a poison, but it is totally natural, and every drop of ocean water and every single speck of ancient sea salt contain at least some trace amount of mercury. Perhaps we need to get DJD to start a campaign to outlaw sea salt.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 9:58:59 AM PDT
"A potentized homeopathic remedy doesn't have trace amounts of anything."

Meaning it's bunk. I'll give you my PayPal address and you can buy as much trace amounts of nothing as you want from me.

Homeopathic "water memory" is ridiculous. If such a notion worked, then every molecule of water on this planet has retained the memory of every single substance it has come in contact with for the past 4.5 billion years.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 10:04:30 AM PDT
"I don't trust anyone who has the power to hurt people en masse that includes private organizations, businesses, governments, etc."

A single homepathic doctor has the power to hurt people just as easily. Why would "en masse" have anything to do with it? If you can qualify ANY harm or death, then your ethics are no higher than the health care system you comlpain of, pure and simple. Now, put THAT homeopathic doctor in the CEO's chair of big pharma, you'll get THE SAME THING. You seem be unable to separate science with human intent. Just because you're a small person/entity that is unable to harm on the large scale doesn't make it acceptable.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 11:07:32 AM PDT
The real problem is air!

I remember a problem is general chem that asked about the likelihood of you breathing in air that had been breathed by _____ (insert famous figure)

So I guess we are all being poisoned by the quantum physical energy (resonating at the same vibrational frequency) of the ex Hitler-Pol Pot air we have been breathing?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 11:17:22 AM PDT
"So I guess we are all being poisoned by the quantum physical energy (resonating at the same vibrational frequency) of the ex Hitler-Pol Pot air we have been breathing?"

Well, I have had the urge to invade Poland lately.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 8, 2012 11:21:26 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 8, 2012 11:29:06 AM PDT
Andrew King says:
DJD: "The CDC also doesn't list typhoid vaccine anywhere as part of the scheduled vaccines, but my husband's immunization card has it listed. What else might we have been vaccinated with that isn't listed on the schedules they provide."

Oh my, Secret Vaccines They Don't Want You To Know About! Except that typhoid vaccine is not a routine "scheduled" vaccine. CDC says: "Routine typhoid vaccination is not recommended in the United States, but typhoid vaccine is recommended for:
*
Travelers to parts of the world where typhoid is common. (NOTE: typhoid vaccine is not 100% effective and is not a substitute for being careful about what you eat or drink).
*
People in close contact with a typhoid carrier.
*
Laboratory workers who work with Salmonella Typhi bacteria."

Another antivax misconception defeated by a 10-second Google search.

Webster: "Homeopathic "water memory" is ridiculous. If such a notion worked, then every molecule of water on this planet has retained the memory of every single substance it has come in contact with for the past 4.5 billion years.

You'll like this poster:

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/04/08/best-anti-homeopathy-poster-ever/

Posted on Aug 8, 2012 2:24:51 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 8, 2012 7:28:24 PM PDT
ParrotSlave says:
I was burglarized early last year, and I keep a number of water bottles handy just in case the water gets shut off for a while, which happens sometimes. I tried and tried to find out from the water who the burglars had been, but I never got a response. I guess it didn't remember.

You know, maybe water has a short term memory problem, like many people. It could be that water suffers from ADD, and doesn't remember billions of years back. Maybe it only remembers the last week or so. But anyone who can tell me how to get water to tell me what it remembers, please let me know.

I'm curious. Does water remembering mean that it has some sort of sentience? That would be remarkable. I'm sure that anyone who could prove that water was sentient would receive an (Ig)Nobel Prize.

I, too, have been trying to find out from them for quite some time where all this water memory would have to be. Just think of all the GPS data each single molecule would have to store for all of its previous history. That would imply, not just that it has some previously unknown mechanism for storing information (it would have to be in an alternate universe), it would also have to have some mechanism for accessing that information. Most astounding of all is the implication that, despite the movement of all the celestial bodies with respect to each other, each water molecule would be able to keep track of all the motion of all the bodies in the entire universe in order to keep track of where that particular molecule had been, say, 3 billion years ago. It would have to have some kind of UPS--universal positioning system. Even more astounding, it would have to "remember" the nature of every single molecule and atom that it had been next to all that time. Imagine a water molecule that, 2.59 billion years ago, was in intergalactic space in a star system a million light years away, and that it was on a small chunk of interstellar dust, right next to some other molecules of water, as well as some silicates and some graphite, but that, only 2.14 billion years ago, all the other water molecules it had been next two had sublimed, and only the other solids remained. Imagine the story that each water molecule could tell. "I remember, only a couple of thousand years ago, I had just been breathed out by Pontius Pilate, and I ended up in a rain cloud that blew me into the Alps, where I froze for hundreds of years, until I melted and was part of some stream water that was drunk by Atilla the Hun."

Posted on Aug 9, 2012 7:31:24 AM PDT
DJD says:
Michael Wasson says homeopathy can't be proven using the scientific method. However, what he really means is that the medical scientific method he trusts is based in chemical energy and refuses to acknowledge that homeopathy can be proven when you use the frequency of different remedies to differentiate them. He is stuck in old scientific thought. The human body consists of chemical energy yes, but it also consists of mechanical, electrical, magnetic and heat energy. A healing system that does not acknowledge this and addresses only the chemicals in our bodies is old science and he is stuck there! Oh yes everyone knows how trustworthy the FDA is when it comes to monitoring big business!

Andrew King says the use of formaldehyde in vaccines is safe because our bodies produce and use it. Anyone who believes this unnatural use of formaldehyde is safe should visit wikipedia for a list of the problems with synthetic uses of formaldehyde and human toxicity. He also says people are addicted to water and therefore homeopathy is addictive. If anyone believes this logic well....

Parrotslave would have you believe that any substance which naturally occurs in our environment is something that we should inject into our bodies and that these substances naturally occur in the combinations that are produced in the laboratories where vaccines are made. Do you really believe the English speaking/reading public are so naive as to fall for these arguments for injecting synthetically made and combined chemicals called vaccines into the immature bodies of babies and toddlers. The revolution against these false teachings has begun and those who proliferate these lies and derive their income from destroying healthy bodies is just beginning! Too many doctors with sick kids are revolting against the myths of vaccination safety they love their kids more than they do their allegiance to the false gods of the pharmacy industrial complex.

Americans should be for maximum individual freedom and minimal freedom for large corporations. No company, and the nine pharmaceutical companies that produce vaccines are included, should not be allowed to poison children. I encourage all people who love this country and their families to investigate the history of vaccines and discover that what is currently being injected into human bodies through these vaccines is not simply a live virus from some infectious disease but lots of toxic material that most children in sanitary environments would not be exposed to as a baby. The vaccines are listed by the CDC as toxoids for a reason. BEWARE of the false information being spouted by people who make their living from this industry!

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 7:40:52 AM PDT
Healing systems DO acknolwedge magnetic and heat energy, however it is impossible to quantify and qualify in terms of disease pathology, therefore it simply boils down to a "free-for-all" on who says what does what. Homeopathy has the convenience of existing in this abstract realm and has no responsibility to define anything or produce results. When things go bad, you always get answers like "your magentic fields were interfered with", or "your chakra was off center". There's always an excuse delegated when things go wrong, but somehow people are readily acceptant to delegate "proof it works" when things go right. Trial and error works in science. It doesn't work when you will never get consistant measurements from ambiguous and abstract notions like magnetic and heat energy.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 7:46:33 AM PDT
When your discussion of health devolves into anti-corporate anti-government rants about industry, you lose sight of the science and the discussion and ulterior motives begin to show.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 7:59:35 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 9, 2012 8:05:51 AM PDT
"what he really means is that the medical scientific method he trusts is based in chemical energy and refuses to acknowledge that homeopathy can be proven when you use the frequency of different remedies to differentiate them"

No, what I REALLY mean is that when people that obviously don't understand basic science (like you) start talking about "energy", "frequencies", "quantum physics" and other undefinable methods and measurements.....I call BS....because that is exactly what it is.

If I offered you a mortgage and the interest rate would be based upon the frequency of your aura....would you accept? Or would you want a definable figure?

Posted on Aug 9, 2012 8:05:16 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 9, 2012 8:06:45 AM PDT
DJD says:
see this is exactly how someone with no logical response responds. As if a dead building or financial transaction was equivalent to a human being and we should use the same scientific method to analyze both! This is why scientists like Mr. Wasson claims to be is not a healer because he considers a human being to be just a unit of measure like an interest rate rather than a living, spiritual being!

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 8:12:47 AM PDT
No, this is how someone responds with a LOGICAL mind responds. And I did not say a building was comparable to a human being. You do not even understand an analogy!

You are telling people to base their health on a series of modalities that (for some reason) is not required to be quantifiable in any recognized way. If I were a homeopath; I could tell you to take a substance because it was an undeterminable amount of a substance that resonated at the same frequency as your illness. It requires no research, proof or concrete numbers.

If I told you your interest rate was going to be based on a number that was not concrete, I bet this would be a problem for you!

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 8:20:09 AM PDT
DJD says:
D.A Webster responds by referring to disease pathology. Please BE AWARE that he is focused on disease not on health. This "science" is not medicine because "true medicine" focuses on living human beings and health. People who focus on the disease and not the person are not healers, they do not focus on restoring the human immune system which is capable in a healthy person of fighting off disease causing mechanisms/agents. They focus on a greedy method of disease prevention which is not successful because you cannot vaccinate against all possible causes of disease especially when you consider that our genetic material predisposes us to vulnerability. There are ways of overcoming these predispositions but vaccination only makes it worse by harming the immune system of little babies and toddlers. People don't believe these self-proclaimed gurus of disease prevention. People are not healthier today than they were before the government and the medical industry started injecting us regularly with poisons. All you have to do is look around you Alzheimers, Bipolar, Scizophrenia, allergies, sleeplessness, acid reflux. Do you know anyone over the age of 40 who doesn't have some chronic health problem. Is it just from vaccines-no but it is a big factor.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 8:34:58 AM PDT
"D.A Webster responds by referring to disease pathology. Please BE AWARE that he is focused on disease not on health. This "science" is not medicine because "true medicine" focuses on living human beings and health."

YOUR POST focus is on disease, as you quoted "homeopathy can be proven when you use the frequency of different remedies". If you're talking about a "remedy", you are clearly talking about a disorder in relation or deviation to normal health. That's what I was addressing.

"They focus on a greedy method of disease prevention which is not successful because you cannot vaccinate against all possible causes of disease especially when you consider that our genetic material predisposes us to vulnerability."

Well DJD, if you know so much about me, please pull up ANY post by me in which I state vaccines are required for disease prevention. Bet you can't. In fact, virtually ALL of the CHES programs I've helped design never included even a single reference to drug or drug company or maintaining health by putting sythetic chemicals in the body. Health maintenance behavior and disease behavior are two COMPLETELY different things. Perhaps when you understand that, you can have meaningful debate with useful information.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 8:37:26 AM PDT
DJD says:
Michael Wasson doesn't believe in homeopathy because the methods used for a dead vaccine don't work to prove the effectiveness of homeopathy. That is right because homeopathy is person specific. My husband likes spicy food, I don't. I love greens and beets and turnips but he doesn't. His body is different from mine just like his taste buds. What might work for me might not work for him. Black men and white men don't have exactly the same bodies and asian women aren't exactly like women from the Ural mountains. Homeopathy recognizes that the immune system of each patient is unique and when it isn't working properly the reasons may be patient specific.

"The first homeopathic hospital for the mentally ill was founded in Middletown, New York, in May 1874. According to the attending physicians "...did not require the use of the opiates, bromides or chloral hydrate in order to control the patients"(Stiles, 1875).

A report published in the Transactions of the American Institute of Homeopathy's meeting, 1891, reports a difference of 50% of patients discharged from the homeopathic mental hospitals in the State of New York, between 1883 and 1890, compared to 30% from conventional hospitals. There was also a difference of a 33% higher death rate at the conventional mental health hospitals as compared to the homeopathic. (Talcott, 1891)

By the end of the 19th century, homeopathic treatment was provided in public mental health hospitals in seven states; two of these states had more than one hospital. (Keith, 1899). Allentown State hospital, in Pennsylvania, opened in the early 20th century and was associated with Hahnemann Hospital in Philadelphia. "

However, the AMA was controlled by the dead science pathology type of doctors who prevented up and coming physicians from practicing homeopathy or risk not being able to practice. They were not more effective they just had power. The science of treating a disease is wrong. Preventing disease is the responsibility of our immune system not man-made, unnaturally synthesized vaccines. Homeopathy works to stimulate the immune system, vaccines damage the immune system.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 9, 2012 9:09:19 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 9, 2012 9:33:46 AM PDT
These c&ps are rather worthless in proving your point. What does this data about 19th century mental hospitals have to do with immunology?

BTW I thought you were the one that accused me of old thinking? Yet you are using factoids from the 19th century?

Let me put this in a perspective that you can understand:

Lets say that you are accused of a crime that carried a potential death sentence. But because our judicial system has been shown to be imperfect, you will be tried using a different method.

We are going to forgo the usual rules of law, procedure and evidence. We have a device that can differentiate guilty and non-guilty energies radiated from a person. Since each person is different, the readings wil be variable. But that is okay, the readings will be interpreted by special lawyers and judges. While we can't show you any data on what constitutes guilty vs innocent energy....trust that we know what we are doing and we are much better at determining guilt and innocence than the conventional system.

Would you be okay with this?
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