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Yesterday I was told not to spank my child anymore because its considered sexual abuse.

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In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2012 2:27:54 PM PDT
Beth Soles says:
Well said.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2012 2:39:08 PM PDT
Daisy says:
Beth Soles: "So you would wait until your child ran out in front of a car or got kidnapped to spank them?"

It looks like you're claiming that only children who have not been spanked run into oncoming traffic &/or get kidnapped. If so, could you please provide the data to support your claim?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2012 2:46:03 PM PDT
Beth Soles says:
Sorry that was @Steve-EGPH in reply to the post on page one.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2012 2:51:17 PM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Jun 7, 2012 3:03:00 PM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2012 2:58:20 PM PDT
A. Cardenas says:
Oh, so shaking or hitting a mentally challenged child will help him remember. Hitting someone, no matter the age teaches nothing except that when you don't know what else to do you should hit. I agree with the previous poster, it's lazy parenting.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2012 3:09:22 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 7, 2012 3:10:49 PM PDT
Andrea M says:
I think that hitting a child just means the parent has no control over themselves. We all do understand, we have all been there when a child infuriates you....and that is the thing- you were furious and used violence to dominate. I don't see hitting, spanking or assaulting a child as a good parenting techniques in any situation. You have made light of being able to effectively deal with your children in any way that doesn't include an act of aggression.
Sexual abuse... perhaps not..but abusive yes...
I don't say that to judge you but to open your eyes to all the other ways you can teach your children a lesson with out striking them. Parenting can at times be exasperating and that's when we get to learn to mature emotionally.

Striking a child is unnecessary and society can call it spanking but that doesn't diminish what it is...violence.
Instead of imparting a lesson the parent imparts a blow. Violence begets violence.
If a stranger bullied our child we would be furious...why is it acceptable from you?

Posted on Jun 7, 2012 3:15:26 PM PDT
Nightingale says:
I would like to propose a different kind of action towards a child who runs into the street or wanders off. Different than any kind of "discipline" be it verbal or physical. Taking things away from kids makes them resentful, in my opinion, and so does spanking. What would happen if, instead of striking out at a child who scares you with his misbehavior, you would get down to eye-level with the child look into his eyes and say something like, "That really scared me when you ran off. I can't imagine what I would do if anything ever happened to you -- I would be so unbearably sad. Please don't run off like that again. It hurts me too much." Words to that effect, appropriate for the child's level of understanding (but don't underestimate what they can understand -- even kids can listen with their hearts.) If you can't say something like that to your child, perhaps you might want to search your soul for the answers to why not. Just try it, please, just once. Or try it with your husband or wife or adult child -- you never know what might happen.

Having said that, I've been following this discussion for a while and posting occasionally and I'm going to stop now. This is no longer a discussion but a brawl and I find myself wanting to "strike back" verbally and it is upsetting. I don't want to feel the way I do about so many of the people posting here and it isn't helpful to me. If this discussion is helpful to some of you, I wish you well; for me, it is not.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2012 3:16:38 PM PDT
Nat says:
A responsible parent would be holding thier hand.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2012 4:07:31 PM PDT
Daisy says:

I just want to let you know that I have so appreciated the wisdom in the few comments you've made and fully respect - and admire - you for detaching from this forum.

Children - and anyone we connect w/lovingly - understand and respect when we are telling the truth. Understanding is enabled in an unfettered, clear way when we keep the focus on our own experience. Parents need not be power hungry 'know it alls' in vain attempts to 'control' our children. Same goes for every relationship. It takes real courage to speak from the heart - the human vehicle for coueur- age - and then let things be. We humans have a great propensity for becoming addicted to fear - which causes endless cycles of trouble.

"Control" is a vastly over-rated goal - the only thing I have any control over is my attitude. I have a feeling you already know that :)

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2012 9:02:57 PM PDT
Nightingale says:
Thanks, Daisy

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2012 4:29:24 PM PDT
L. Smith says:
I have always believed in speaking to my kids with respectfulness from the very beginning (before they even understood what I was saying). I repeatedly helped them see how their actions made me (or someone else) FEEL. Yet, I must admit there were times when I failed to keep my temper (or fear) in check and ended up doing some yelling of my own. However, I always apologized to them when I missed the mark. I also reminded them how important it was to me to continually get better at this parenthood job and hoped they could forgive my mistakes. BTW, my parents always wanted us to say "I'm sorry" for whatever things we apparently always did wrong, but they never once apologized to us for any of their own mistakes, which I always found extremely hypocritical.

A child who is screamed at, pulled by the arm, or spanked in any fashion, learns those disrespectful behaviors - period. In fact, it can twist their view so much, most grow up and repeat these actions on their own children. I believe the same concept to be true in the classroom, in that any form of belittling or disrespectful treatment (abuse) toward a child will cause them to feel bad or angry or alone or afraid, or more likely, all of these. The "bonus" is that they will most likely learn to treat others (including their "abusers") the same disrespectful way, whether it's toward their siblings, classmates, or worse yet, to those smaller and weaker than themselves. (Hello, bullies in the making.)

From my experience, a child who is treated respectfully in a consistent manner learns respectfulness, not only for others, but for themselves. And this does not translate only with my kids; I am respectful toward all the children I know or encounter and I see the benefits constantly. I currently help a friend with her two babies (12 months and 2-1/2 years old) while she teaches summer school. Her oldest recenlty began closing her eyes when she is feeling stress or some kind of discomfort when someone new shows up. I've witnessed the family and friends talk about it in a negative way to her face: "you're not invisible, you know!" or... "oh, she must think she's asleep!" or... "why are you doing that? you look rediculous!" My choice is to sit near her and ask if she wants to read a book... she whispers "yes" (eyes still closed), but as I start reading, she opens her eyes, scoots closer to my side to see the pictures, and starts chatting about the book. I see no reason to bring any attention to her closed eye response (she has plenty of reasons to do it - including that she had to "move over" to welcome a sister 12 months ago - who is darn cute and gets a ton of attention).

What astounds me is how so many people feel justified in basically being MEAN to their own children and calling it "discipline" (which simply means "to teach"), based on their perception of a child's behavior, poor choice, or lack of ability to see the consequenses of their actions. A child who gets lost at the mall is grounds for being taught something useful through a spanking? I fail to see how that "consequence" is a real "teaching" tool. Or the one who played with matches in the closet? So, in "dangerous" situations, spanking is somehow justified. How? Why? I remember losing track of a neice at an event I took her and her three young siblings too (before having my own kids), and when I found her, I hugged her until she almost begged me to let go! She was eight at the time, and still remembers that moment. (She is now a mother of two and swears by the "hugging" response to this day, should one of her kids do something "scary".)

The irony for me is that as a firefighter, my dad chose to teach us how to properly handle matches and campfires at a fairly young age, and later cooking on the stove, all with the utmost respect. He also spanked us quite regularly (with a thick leather belt on our bare-naked bottoms, pants around our ankles - for the full "teaching" effect!), but amazingly, he managed to teach us what playing with matches could do by showing us the damage fires caused (actually taking us to see a burned down house). It was perhaps the only well-learned lesson he taught us - and without a single spank :)

I enjoyed two books by Aliki (as did my kids, who later suggested kids along the way who needed those books!): "Feelings" and "Manners".

Hope this helps...?

Posted on Jun 24, 2012 5:33:38 PM PDT
Daisy says:
Couldn't agree w/you more, L. Smith.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2012 7:22:16 PM PDT
LizGrande says:
I was spamked as a child too. I still love my mother, I pretty sure I have no traumas because of that. I am not a perfect person, but I am a Doctor (MD), and a good citizen. I sincerely think that kids these days need spanking from their parents and slaps on the wrist from teachers. I saw that video of the bus moniter being bullied by a bunch of kids...if my parents would seen me doing that.....they would have me picking up my teeth... two blocks away. Of course one must explain things to kids, but again, spanking wont traumatize anyone and will put kids back in order.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2012 7:50:50 PM PDT
Becky says:
You must be aware that when diagnosing a disorder relating to trauma, it is not the clinicians perception of what is traumatic that must be considered; it is the patients perception of trauma that matters. A tiny child who is being struck by an adult several times his size can experience fear of serious injury, even though the parent would never risk seriously hurting the child.
I have no reason to believe that all children who are spanked will be traumatized by the experience, but it would be unethical for a clinician to base diagnoses of trauma on ones own experience, as everyone experiences events differently. I personally was put into place by my supervisor for discounting an event that traumatized a client, based on the event seeming trivial to me. The client's perception of trauma is what mattered, not my own, and the proper diagnosis was PTSD.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2012 7:52:17 PM PDT
Becky says:
Hi Daisy! Its good to see your name again :)

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2012 7:58:19 PM PDT
Becky says:
Wow! I really like the examples you experienced of the messages that were driven home through different discipline methods. And what better way can there be to teach a child the dangers of not staying close, than to show the strength of the fear you felt, and the subsequent relief when she was found.

Posted on Jun 24, 2012 8:46:49 PM PDT
Okay, this is why American people my age (young) have issues. They don't know a thing about discipline because they make it an "act of congress" (no pun intended) to be able to discipline your child.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2012 9:02:20 PM PDT
Daisy says:
It's been awhile, Becky - good to see you too :)

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 24, 2012 9:23:12 PM PDT
Daisy says:

I'm curious about your qualification about not being "a perfect person, but a Doctor (MD) and a good citizen." I wonder if you believe that there are any perfect people, and if so, could you please point one out (or describe the first person who comes to mind who fits the bill)? If you believe there is no such thing as a perfect person, would you please go into more detail about your decision to compare yourself to an impossible ideal? After all, you say you love your mother - so you can love - and you are certainly accomplished in your professional choice, moreover you describe yourself as a good citizen - so I take it you're a conscientious person. You sound just fine. So what's the need to compare yourself to perfection?

I'm aware that my questions could disturb you, but risk asking anyway because it's not escaped my notice that people who have been subject to corporal punishment very often struggle w/perfectionism and wonder how that could be for you.

The kids who tormented the bus monitor would be much better served if they were prohibited from riding the bus for the duration of their public education than if they were brutalized to the extent you wish upon them (no traumas? really?) As would their negligent parents be better served if they actually had to engage in constructive problem solving w/their children ( e.g. work out the mapping for their walks to and from school) rather than dumping their children into the public school system hoping others would raise them.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 25, 2012 1:32:21 AM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Jun 25, 2012 1:34:56 AM PDT]

Posted on Jul 5, 2012 12:45:27 PM PDT
kingdrake2 says:
imo i prefer restriction or loss of privelleges (for a length of time) before enforcing as a last resort: spanking. i have had this happen maybe 1 time in my childhood.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 5, 2012 1:24:02 PM PDT
J. Murratti says:
its not our fault you fely sexual pleasure from spankings. that doesnt mean your parents did

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 5, 2012 1:41:26 PM PDT
J. Murratti says:
great. now your child can tell others that they are wrong or messed up because their parents didnt do things your way.

Posted on Jan 30, 2014 6:21:21 AM PST
As a spanked child I can tell you, N, that spanking your lost child- DOES NOT in any way shows him that you love him and were worried about him... It just teaches him to fear you and not to trust you... What about hugging him and telling him how worried sick you were? What about apologising for the spanking and explaining that you were so afraid you got out of control? What about treating him with respect?
Soon he would be a teen and I guarantee it would not be you he would come to when in need of advice, and you would not understand why. Try more hugs and honesty and less violence and you might save your future relationship.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 30, 2014 6:41:43 AM PST
You do realize that the post you are commenting on is 2 years old and the last comment was made on Jul 5, 2012?

This is just FYI. But it is unlikely you will get a response.
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Initial post:  Mar 29, 2012
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