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I am confused...about vegetarianism, meat eating, and all the rest...

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Initial post: Mar 12, 2012 10:07:46 PM PDT
Now, I'm an open-minded lady, and I've been willing to see lots of different view points when it comes to the subject of one's diet and nutrition.

At the end of the day, however, I just have more questions.

Do vegetarians (and vegans) really lack protein and have vitamin deficiencies? Do non-vegetarians really develop cancers and heart disease based on their diet? Are meat and dairy really not essential to your nutrition after all?

...and that's just a few.

Basically, I feel a little stuck. And with that in mind, I'm asking for more information.

As I said, I can appreciate all insights (and resources and recommendations, if you have them).

Also, I want to stress that I ask these things with regards to health and nutrition. As for any other reasons people may have for opting for a particular diet...let's just say that isn't my concern with this particular discussion.

Thanks in advance.
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In reply to an earlier post on Mar 13, 2012 12:33:18 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 13, 2012 12:35:00 AM PDT
LaterDude says:
I come from 50 years of meat eating to in the last year became a vegan with the help of my vegan daughter. I have struggled with some of your questions and I did it for a truly selfish reason... My health.

As for the protein issue, I call it an issue because it is probably the most asked question of any vegan. "Where do you get your protein?" Leafy greens, nuts, beans, and legumes. Kale and broccoli have more protein than sirloin steak. Protein present in 100-calorie portions of Broccoli 11.2 gm, Sirloin Steak 5.4 gm, Romaine Lettuce 7.5 gm, Kale 11 gm.

As for vitamin deficiencies, the only vitamin you can't get from veggies is B12 and a good daily sublingual supplement fixes that.

For your question about cancer I will ask you to watch the documentary "Forks Over Knives". This has a lot of good science that should make you think. I also like the book by Dr. Joel Fuhrman called "Eat to Live: The Amazing Nutrient-Rich Program for Fast and Sustained Weight Loss, Revised Edition". Watch and read these two items and then start asking questions. I did and the answer was I went from 295 to 195 pounds, BP 140/100 to 116/68, total cholesterol of 240 to 150, and a waistline of 46 down to 34. I haven't been a 34 waist in 20 years so I am loving this. As I said, I did this for purely selfish reasons, my health. My oldest aunt is 94 years old and in good health so I decided that I was not going to decline into old age just because I was in love with the Standard American Diet (SAD).

Posted on Mar 13, 2012 6:17:05 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 13, 2012 6:38:51 AM PDT
Apocrypha says:
Megan, I was just as confused about the healthiest diet or way of eating was too. I've done many different types of diets. In the end, I believe there is no one way that is best for everyone. I believe we all have different needs and each of us will thrive on different diets. I feel that we have to find what we each do best on through trial and error really. I think we can all agree, exercise is universally healthy and fast food for the most part is universally UNhealthy. But diet in general can be variable I think, as we are all unique. I went vegan when I was 18 and was vegan for five years. However, I developed insulin resistance and PCOS. (Polycystic ovary syndrome) It's been say the least. Even though I ate healthy as a vegan, I still developed insulin resistance. It seems the only way I can control my blood sugar now is a sort of Paleo diet approach. (Except with beans and nuts etc still) Which seems to be beneficial amongst women with PCOS. But nothing is cut and dry, and I've seen posts from ladies who have done well on a vegan diet also.

I've heard a theory that the best diet for each of us can also have something to do with our genealogical background. I'm not sure if that theory is correct but I am half norwegian. So I guess mostly Scandanavian and English. I haven't read any books on the Paleo diet however, but I've read that theory on blogs etc. I find it interesting though. I've found the best way for me to eat to control my pcos symptoms, weight and stay healthy seems to be: minimal fruits, small amount of whole grains, lots of vegetables, meat (as natural as possible), beans, small amount of organic virgin coconut oil, extra virgin olive oil, fish oils, seafood, soy products, small amount of nuts. (Though I can't eat too much fat as I have gallbladder problems.) And I also can't eat dairy or gluten. (I am celiac and dairy makes my PCOS worse.) I'm certainly NOT paleo though, as I still eat some whole grains and legumes etc. But this is what's worked best for me. Diabetes runs in my family along with heart disease. I've lost many...many family members to disease. I decided several years ago to read the book "You: The Owners Manual" by Mehmet C. Oz and Michael F. Roizen, after deciding that I did not want to let my family die in vain and allow myself to die young due to disease too. That book helped me.

As a vegan I lost a bit of weight initally but then gained it back. I'd been overweight all my life. I went vegan for ethical reasons, however. At 5'2 I went up and down between like 140-170 lbs. I wasn't happy. And my family was dying...and still is dying. So I read that "You" book, and it changed my life for the better. I learned how to care for myself and my body. I also started to eat more protein (up to 25% a day. Not due to the "You" book however.) I also use a website called "Fitday." That helps me track my nutrition and eat better. I began to watch my portion sizes. Then I found a blog/site called "Nutrition Diva" and I liked her approach to diet as it was scientifically based. Based on the most up to date research, as that's really all we have to go on other than how we feel and our current health! Then I found out she had a book called "Nutrition diva's secrets for a healthy diet: what to eat, what to avoid and what to stop worrying about." by Monica Reinagel. That book helped me also. I also read a book called "Feed your face" by Jessica Wu, which I read initally regarding my skin (which was in bad shape, with rosacea, acne etc.) but that book really helped me with my diet as well. I am now down to 105 lbs (give or take a couple) and have maintained that for over two years. And no more acne and my rosacea is under control. I've never been such a low weight in my life.

These are the things I believe to be true regarding a healthy diet based on what I've learned over the years:

-Nitrates most likely cause cancer.
-A diet based on mostly whole foods and minimal processed foods is probably best.
-Fiber is very good and decreases risks for heart disease and diabetes.
-Having some fiber/protein/fat with meals and snacks helps control blood sugar.
-Probably not everything man-made is bad, and not everything natural is good. I believe diet is more grey, rather than only black or white.
-No one diet is the RIGHT diet for EVERY body.
-Variety is the spice of life.
-A colorful diet is good.
-Portion control is important.
-Moderation in all things is usually good and too much of anything could be bad. Except maybe green vegetables LOL.
-Fish oils/wild fish are probably really good for us.
-Fats in general aren't bad for us like we once thought. The best ratio of different fats that is "best" is still up for debate.
-Dairy might not be as good for us as we once thought.
-Grass fed/wild meat is probably the healthiest kind.
-Mostly non-starchy vegetables and fruit are very healthy. (Like dark leafy greens, berries and citrus fruits)
-Whole grains are better than processed grains.
-Too many carbohydrates or starchy foods probably isn't good and contributes to diabetes, heart disease and cancer. (Apparently cancer cells feed off of sugar...)
-Water is good.
-Nuts are good.
-Using different spices and herbs in your cooking is good.
-Green tea (and other teas) are probably very good for us too.

So in the end I would recommend those three books if they're up your alley. Looking into fitday or another nutrition tracking site, if you're interested in tracking your nutrition. That can be enlightening and helpful. As well as looking up a site called "World's Healthiest Foods." You may find that site very interesting also. I love it. And in the end, listening to your body. Your body knows best! :)

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 13, 2012 7:50:25 AM PDT
No diet, whether vegan, vegetarian, or omnivorous lacks anything or carries any more risk of disease than another as long as you pay attention to micronutrients and macronutrients. Eat a plant-based diet. Keep meats to a minimum. Stay away from processed foods and additives. Stay away from added sugars.

Posted on Mar 13, 2012 10:59:49 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 13, 2012 11:01:50 AM PDT
widowTink says:
I try to eat mostly plants but refuse to label myself a vegetarian or vegan or pescatarian or whatever. Shift thinking to using meats in small amounts as flavoring or garnish. Meat as a Treat in the middle of the week. I am a picky eater, and I abhor cheeses of every kind. I use Vegan cookbooks (THIS one is my favorite) because the recipes and ideas are basically cheeseless. My health insurance offers nutritionist services and classes to me at no charge, so I have started using those services. It is not immoral to eat animals....animals eat other animals, little fish get eaten by big fish, it's a fact of nature. But we all eat too much everything, and too much is heavily processed and aggressively advertised. And there's a popular mindset that one should spend as much as possible on cars and cable services and as little as possible on the food that actually nourishes your body and keeps you alive. Huh?

The Dr. Oz book helped me, too!

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 13, 2012 11:17:31 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 13, 2012 11:19:19 AM PDT
I really love The Kind Diet: A Simple Guide to Feeling Great, Losing Weight, and Saving the Planet. While Alicia Silverstone does advocate for animals, the primary focus is on feeling great, and positivity. It's not lecture-y, and it really helped my non-scientific brain grasp a bit of nutrition info.

The thing about the book too is that she has different sections, according to your interest level. The first is called "Flirting," which gives tips and recipes for eating more vegetarian/vegan, without committing.

Either way, while anecdotal, I know I felt much better when I cut out meat from my diet, and I NEVER feel better than when I'm eating vegan. IMO it's a lot harder to go from vegetarian to vegan than it was to go from omnivore to vegetarian, but the difference I feel in my body is really incredible when I shun animal products. I feel lighter, more energetic, more positive -- more like me.

It is possible to get the right nutrition without meat or animal products, but it can require more focus. I'm learning a lot from my brother who got super into nutrition and fitness, and researched veganism for like a year before jumping in (as a full-on omnivore when he did it).

There's also a website my brother uses where you can combine your own protein powders, according to your needs. As a vegan who wants to keep gaining muscle, he chose a combo of pea, hemp, and brown rice. I am going to order from there after I do more research about what I need!

Good luck to you no matter what!

Posted on Mar 13, 2012 12:10:00 PM PDT
Primrose says:
Well, from what I've read people that try eating a vegetarian or a vegan diet tend to not last long eating that way. There was a recent report on that in the magazine Psychology Today. The main reason given for going back to eating some meats was due to poor health. So if that is the case, possibly not enough nutrients are being obtained from a largely plant based diet.

"Most Vegetarians Become Ex-Vegetarians?"

Snippet from Tom Naughton's write up on the article:

"...Okay, I have to admit: that first sentence rubs me the wrong way. "Unable to keep up with the challenges of the vegetarian life" sounds a bit like "unable to keep up with the challenges of boot camp." The more appropriate description in my case would be "sick and tired of feeling sick and tired." The nutritionist obviously found that going meatless wasn't doing wonders for her health - somebody call T. Colin Campbell! - so she quit.

That's what the Psychology Today article named as the number one reason vegetarians go back to eating meat: poor health.

Staci wasn't always so fit. In her early 30′s, Staci's health started going downhill. After twelve years of strict vegetarianism, she began to suffer from anemia and chronic fatigue syndrome, and she experienced stomach pains for two hours after every meal. "I was completely debilitated," she tells me. "Then I changed the way I ate."...."

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 13, 2012 1:27:36 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 13, 2012 1:31:03 PM PDT
I tried eating meat again after 2 years of not, because I thought it would help me feel stronger. It just made me feel gross and bad about myself. The lack of strength was coming from laziness in my own food choices. I know there are people who have conditions, but I think, at least what I've experienced and witnessed, feeling sick and weak is often due to thinking the absence of meat is enough. I've seen multiple people stop eating meat, but they just eat pasta and French fries and the like. That's not going to be healthy for anyone. Especially if someone is eating vegan, s/he should be mindful of nutrients. The hardest part is letting go of society's upraising and traditions. Food is so tied into our culture, and it seems like heresy to say no to that burger or that pizza. But there are myriad options out there that are full of nutrition and delicious.

Posted on Mar 13, 2012 7:38:07 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 13, 2012 7:41:55 PM PDT
Thank you all for your comments. I appreciate every one.

Apocrypha: It's funny you mention "World's Healthiest Foods" because I actually have the book that the website was based off of (or maybe the book was based off of the website?). I will definitely take a look at the other books you've mentioned.

parrotheadtink: I kind of feel the same way. I don't want to label myself as anything, really. And I don't want to say, "No I can never have this". At the same time...I feel in my gut that moderation makes a huge difference.

The Horseshoe-Playing Panther: The Kind Diet is actually on my reading list right now. Glad to hear it's not lecture-y. And I'll definitely be on the look out for vegetarian and vegan recipes -- amidst all my confusion, I've realized that there's no harm in trying new things.

Again, thank you all for your posts and I look forward to reading more!

Posted on Mar 14, 2012 6:27:36 AM PDT
Sally Fields says:
I know people who are meat eaters who are 100% healthy and people who are vegetarian who are 100% healthy and people who are vegan who are 100% healthy, AND people in all the above categories who are 100% UNhealthy.

A meat eater who eats a lot of fast food and red meat is going to be unhealthy. A meat eater who eats lean turkey and chicken and fish, and lots of veggies, and avoids sugar and fast food is most likely going to be healthy.

A vegetarian or vegan who eats a lot of rice, pasta, french fries, chocolate, sugar, drinks soda or juice with a lot of sugar in it but avoids proteins such as tofu, soy, beans and legumes is what many people call a "junk food vegetarian" and this is very unhealthy. A vegetarian with good portion control who eats a lot of beans, legumes, tofu and soy (if they wish, not everyone can tolerate soy for various health reasons), avoids high salt convenience foods, and only has sugar in moderation is most likely going to be very healthy!

There is a lot of propaganda about both diets. I have been a vegetarian for 13 years for ethical reasons and I believe I am giving you a very unbiased opinion that either diet can be healthy or very unhealthy depending on your food choices. It is not better to be a junk food vegetarian eating cake and cookies every day than it is to be a meat eater who eats fast food hamburgers and pizza daily. Whatever diet you choose you have to be mindful of what you are eating and have portion control and moderation and make good food choices. Both diets must include a lot of fruit and veggies or they are going to be unhealthy.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 10:03:35 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 14, 2012 10:05:57 AM PDT
abbydusk says:
The healthiest way to eat?
1. Put a piece of meat/fish or a couple eggs on your plate.
2. Fill the rest of your plate with vegetables.
3. Have fruit for dessert if you want a sweet treat.
4. Minimize or eliminate sugar and grains.

I highly recommend reading at least these 2 books:
- The Primal Blueprint: Reprogram your genes for effortless weight loss, vibrant health, and boundless energy (Primal Blueprint Series)
- Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and the Controversial Science of Diet and Health (Vintage)

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 12:38:03 PM PDT
Thanks Megan, best of luck to you!

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 14, 2012 12:39:13 PM PDT
Or you could trade out meat/fish/eggs with tofu, tempeh, beans...and add in some whole grains for good measure!

Posted on Mar 14, 2012 4:01:15 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 14, 2012 4:41:03 PM PDT
There is no substitute I've found, for getting real information on how different foods/nutrients break down, are absorbed, used and transported throughout the body for energy, repairing the body and overall well-being. When you learn the most basic of information on the subject first, you'll then be able to read through the fad diets and bs that's pumped from interest groups looking to take your money, at least "three times a day". You'd be surprised how far reached, into even the basics, that is manipulated to guide you on your "purchasing choices". Why do you think the food pyramid has been changing so often? The lobbyists that take a vested interest in what you put in your mouth daily, are and have been at work, forcing the hands of our FDA to tell you what is healthiest; thereby driving you to buy more of that healthy food; increasing that industry's revenue. There are no accidents in this "our daily bread", we have been hypnotized and they have won. All you can do is do what you can to know how to read and fully understand food labels. Then in accordance with those who truly are advocating for your rights to be healthy, (i.e. organizations, websites, etc. without direct or indirect financial interests). I took a nutrition class in college and I use it daily; the most useful, fun and personally... interesting class I ever took. I thought I knew enough before; working-out and doing scant research experientially.
Knowing the chemical digestion, where things are absorbed, what nutrients and phyto-nutrients do and which support one another for better absorption, where they are stored, excreted, what the advertising companies do for food companies to manipulate your understanding of what your buying, etc... I'm rambling cause I love the stuff; and I've found it to be one of the top healthy choices I've ever made. I was blessed to have a good nutrition professor who really challenged my previous understanding of food and nutrition...a good and passionate teacher I found can be your true ticket to longevity.

Posted on Mar 14, 2012 5:53:04 PM PDT
Shorty says:
If people would look at what was originally put here on earth for us to eat, that was the perfect diet. Then choose from those foods what you like/don't like.

Cutting processed foods out of your diet is a big step in becoming healthy. I eat fish, small amounts of grass fed meats, lots of veggies, especially the green leafy kind, a few nuts and berries, flax and chia. I don't eat dairy, or grains or legumes. They are all man made and I believe make us sick. The only fat I ever use is macadamia nut oils. That's just me, I wouldn't tell anyone what to eat, everyone's free to eat what they want and have to choose what's best for them.

I'm not vegan or vegetarian, but I do mostly eat fish, and very seldom eat meat, poultry or pork. I do also eat eggs. I eat what makes me feel good and healthy.

I hope if anything people learn to cut out the processed foods, they are full of unhealthy fats and chemicals.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2012 12:15:07 AM PDT
Hi, Thanks for your information, I , too, after seeing the newest headlines, have been struggling with the topic of meat, do not eat gluten, or dairy, but feels I need to do something different. My blood pressure has always been great, but my brother died at 52 from heart attack. Many other factors were involved...but I will look into your suggestions. My waistline could use some trimming, and my cholesterol. Did you feel famished all the time? I do get hypoglycemia, if I do not eat enough protein. My grandfather lived to 97, but he ate meat, and eggs, and everything for him was moderation.I do love greens, so that won't be a prob. Thanks Jenn

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2012 1:06:16 AM PDT
My main reason for going back to meats was habit and social pressures. I was accustomed to eating meat and so was everyone around me. Most of them still are, but I am not. Then, too, there are the constant billboards and other advertisements for restaurants featuring hamburger, chicken, pork and fish (I'm writing this from southeast USA, where barbecued pork is a big draw). Check the relationship between Psychology Today and the various meat councils ... the claim of poor nutrition as a result of eating vegetables sounds pretty dodgy to me. In short, the article sounds "sponsored".

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2012 4:02:59 AM PDT
Megan - I've gone vegan myself. It's hard to stick to (in this world of fast food and meat dishes everywhere). As far as lacking in protein - look at the giraffes and the elephants, they are doing just fine. I feel so much better when I stay away from meat and dairy - my joints don't ache, I'm losing weight, my energy level is wonderful - honest honest honest. You should continue to eat fish for the Omega 3 whcih is not found in vegetables. I take vitamin D, Omega 3, and B12 supplements - just 1 a day. It makes sense that a lot of these diseases that are in the top 10 are caused from diet - Megan - let food be thy medicine!!!!! from,Sherry

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2012 4:07:05 AM PDT
rvenneman says:
Thanks for sharing this. When you say you stay away from meat, you continue to eat fish. We have been considering going meatless, sticking only with fish, eggs, and some light cheese. Do you eat eggs and cheese?

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2012 5:14:54 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 15, 2012 5:28:18 AM PDT

I haven't read the responses...just making my own so forgive if redundant. The best way that I've allowed myself to be guided by thus far is Doctor Fuhrman's work. He says that one should focus on maximizing the micronutrient intake in their foods, both the variety and the amounts. His formula is that Health = Micronutrients/Calories (H=M/C). Of course, that is incomplete about health. Many things are needed for health. However, in terms of diet of organic matter I find that it is the best thing to focus on. He calls doing so as a way of life being a "nutritarian". In looking for the best foods you immediately have to throw out flesh, animal fats, oils of all kinds, and dairy...FOR THE MOST PART. The reason is that they have massive amount of calories with nearly no micronutrients. Thus, they cause toxicosis in all but the smallest amounts of intake. When eating thoroughly and well and getting proper intake of micronutrients a person begins to experience true hunger. This is hunger where you no longer get toxic hunger of pain, headaches, dizziness and other things like that simply because you missed a meal. Those are signs of food addiction and toxicosis. I myself find that eating the most powerful greens like kale, collard greens, turnip greens, bok choy, broccoli, and so forth my juicing some and cooking some in soups (or putting some juices in the soup) along with a variety of other vegetables based on their micronutritional value and low caloric amounts. In terms of supplementation this can be done by eating flesh, which I may eat a bit of from time to time, but better just to supplement it. I like parent molecule omega 3's and 6's oil from Y.E.S. company myself. But I might also use coconut oil if I run out of that. Have one every other day or every day is enough for my body. B12 may need to be supplemented and I find that this is the case with me, particularly because I don't completely stick to nutritarianism anyhow. However, my needs are on a daily basis and change daily. So I test myself for specific amounts to supplement and what to eat and when as well as the amounts of that. It is incredibly small compared to when I just eat with my eyes and stomach! I save a lot of money that way and feel so much better.

The testing that I use is called muscle testing, muscle checking and mental imagery manipulation. (I just made the name of the last one up because I haven't heard it called anything yet.) Basically, what I do is write out a bunch of "health activities" like exercise, drinking water, eating, supplementing, herbs, oils, homeopathics, consciousness and/or bioenergy, and so forth along with all of the sub-categories. With each I add "other" to make it open-ended. The subconscious knows what it needs and what is available and thus answers accordingly. For instance, I'll ask "can I build a health activities schedule for tomorrow right now?" "yes". I set up when I want to get up. "5 am wake up?" "Yes." What that does is simply make sure that the mind-body complex is going to be coherent with my wake up time. Some times it might say it would be better to wake earlier or even a bit later. I don't know why but it always feel better to do it that way and my day goes better. Then I picture a clock and move the big hand forward from 5a until I get a hit which is the mind-body's way of saying "at this time is a health activity". Perhaps at 5:30 is my drink of water. I then determine that it is 1.5 liters with 3 drops of 35% food grade hydrogen peroxide. The first meal might be as early as 7 and as late as 9 or 10 and might be a bowl of mixed berries or apples or oranges or some other mix of what is currently available in my fridge (I use this to go shopping to provide the best options ahead of time) or within immediate buying reach. That is how I do it.

I also use consciousness work to locate conditionings, beliefs, and various consciousness or bioenergetic structures that have been put in place earlier which are causing food addictions so that I might have cravings for certain types of worthless, toxic foods. For me, doing so is necessary in order to be successful long term.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 15, 2012 6:45:41 AM PDT
Just replying in general. i am a vegetarian mostly for ethical reasons. It breaks my heart the way animals are treated in animal factories. as it turns out for me anyway i'm very healthy. i do eat a amall amount of dairy products. No meat of any kind (fish is meat) and no eggs. No weight issues, no cholesterol issues and plenty of energy. It works for me!

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2012 9:27:20 AM PDT
abbydusk says:
No, I will not trade out my healthy nutritious food for unhealthy less nutritious food. That's not a "good measure"!

Soy products should only be eaten if fermented and in small amounts. Soy acts as an anti-nutrient, blocking your body from absorbing other nutrients. It also has estrogen properties to it (often menopausal women are told to eat soy). Soy is not "healthy".

Nor are grains, even whole grains. Grain-based carbs quickly turn to sugar in the body. And eating grains causes inflammation of arteries. (Saturated fat from coconut oil and organic grass-fed livestock counteracts the inflammation.) Calorie-for-calorie, grains are less nutritious than vegetables, fruits, meat, fish,eggs. The human body has zero need for grains, we can't even digest grains unless they are ground/cooked first.

You're better off AVOIDING soy and grains!

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2012 9:30:06 AM PDT
abbydusk says:
RE: "As far as lacking in protein - look at the giraffes and the elephants, they are doing just fine."

Do you realize that giraffes and elephants are HERBIVORES? And humans are OMNIVORES? Different species have different diets that their bodies are physiologically designed to run on.

Posted on Mar 19, 2012 9:57:46 AM PDT
Shorty says:
True different species require different nutrients, and foods. Although we as humans can get all our protein requirements from plant based foods. We can get important nutrients from fish also. So in theory we do not need to eat meat. I spent the first 44 yrs of my life believing my body required meats, dairy, grains and beans. We do not and are not meant to eat those things. All babies require their mothers milk, after that we have no need for it. Grains, beans and grain fed meats cause a major deficit of omega 3's which our brains need to properly function. And we wonder why the world has gone crazy.

A perfect diet consists of green vegetables, fish, and few berries and the only halfway decent nuts are macadamia nuts. We can get the fats our bodies need from fish and nuts.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 19, 2012 10:16:17 AM PDT
there arguments that humans should not be for soy you are correct. i happen to get most of my protein from hemp.
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