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Infant circumcision


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Showing 3176-3200 of 1000 posts in this discussion
Posted on May 9, 2012 11:51:39 AM PDT
TD says:
"This study confirms that circumcision of the newborn causes severe and persistent pain. Acetaminophen was not found to ameliorate either the intra-operative or the immediate postoperative pain of circumcision..."

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/93/4/641.short

In reply to an earlier post on May 9, 2012 5:21:42 PM PDT
This is really doubtful and a good hygienic procedure for infant boys. As to girls/women - its barbaric

In reply to an earlier post on May 9, 2012 5:37:08 PM PDT
TD says:
>>This is really doubtful and a good hygienic procedure for infant boys.

Um, really? You might want to tell that to the American Academy of Physicians, who published that article. How is it a "good hygienic procedure" for boys, but not for girls? Got any science to back that up, or are you just spouting opinions with no data as a basis for them?

In reply to an earlier post on May 9, 2012 6:37:19 PM PDT
David Harris says:
I'm getting tired of foolish comments like yours in this discussion. With due respect, would you care to enlighten us as to why you think that APAP works, when the AAP says it doesn't? And what is this "good hygienic procedure" to which you refer?

In reply to an earlier post on May 9, 2012 7:28:30 PM PDT
TD says:
"Compared with baseline, all newborns experienced pain as evidenced by increased heart rate of an average of 40 beats per minute, decreased oxygen saturation of 3%, and more facial actions indicative of pain during all phases of the procedure."
http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/270/7/850.short

"...If untreated, the pain of circumcision causes both short and long term changes in infant behaviours... No single agent has been demonstrated to ameliorate pain for all infants undergoing circumcision."
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/adis/ped/2001/00000003/00000002/art00003

"...NIPS scores in patients circumcised without anesthesia indicated severe pain."
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/101/4/e5.short

"Training with regard to pain relief is clearly inadequate for what remains a common surgical procedure in the United States. Given the overwhelming evidence that neonatal circumcision is painful and the existence of safe and effective anesthesia/analgesia methods, residency training in neonatal circumcision should include instruction in pain relief techniques." http://www.pediatricsdigest.mobi/content/101/3/423.short

"The evidence suggests that early experiences with pain are associated with altered pain responses later in infancy."
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/adis/ped/2005/00000007/00000004/art00004

"Circumcised infants showed a stronger pain response to subsequent routine vaccination than uncircumcised infants. Among the circumcised group, preoperative treatment with EMLA attenuated the pain response to vaccination. We recommend treatment to prevent neonatal circumcision pain."
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2896%2910316-0/fulltext

"Thus neonatal circumcision may affect pain response several months after the event."
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2895%2990278-3/abstract

Posted on May 9, 2012 7:29:21 PM PDT
TD says:
Sorry, David Harris. That wasn't meant to be a reply to your post. :)

In reply to an earlier post on May 9, 2012 7:50:44 PM PDT
David Harris says:
Phew! I very nearly hit Reply and unleash a stream of invective! Amazon really needs to beef up the UI here, and offer straightforward things like threading, indenting, etc. This would make it much easier to avoid this mistake!

In reply to an earlier post on May 9, 2012 7:53:34 PM PDT
David Harris says:
By the way, Mr Underwood, please note that TD erred - his reply above was directed at you. Any comment?

In reply to an earlier post on May 9, 2012 8:03:40 PM PDT
and nothing ameliorates the long-term pain of betrayal.

In reply to an earlier post on May 10, 2012 7:13:08 AM PDT
circsavy says:
@Ronald,
The anti-circ community drags out the pain issue as if it were a given. There are many videos of actual proceedures using pain control that show the infant resting comfortably and quiet. I think the real issue on this thread is personal anger at having been circumcised. There are many men who appreciate having had it done to them and who are choosing it for their sons. That was the choice I made and my son has every intention of having his sons circumcised as well. If we want to talk about pain, let's not ignore the very process of being born, and the subsequent proceedures routine in hospitals. Circumcision under pain control is but one of them.

In reply to an earlier post on May 10, 2012 7:20:43 AM PDT
J. Parkes says:
The point is...why do it at all? maybe so you won't be the 1 in 100,000 men who might have a minor problem that would be cleared up with medical attention in an few days?
You want to circumcise every boy born to eliminate a problem, but the complications of circumcision are more frequent than the problem you want to eliminate!
It's already proven that the foreskin is not 'just extra skin' it has a purpose, a reason for existing. Removing it has no reason, benefit, or rational explanation.

In reply to an earlier post on May 10, 2012 8:18:07 AM PDT
DisplacedMic says:
Exactly right, Ronald. Don't listen to these ridiculous hippies in here.

Additionally, if we hacked off everyone's feet at birth we would virtually eliminate the risk of ingrown toenails.

Also stinky feet.

It's a hygiene issue. I have never known a little boy that doesn't have dirty feet that stink like the deepest pits of hell.

In reply to an earlier post on May 10, 2012 11:23:21 AM PDT
David Harris says:
I cannot believe I'm agreeing with you, but yes - pain from the procedure is not the major issue. The REAL pain is a lifetime of not having a foreskin.

In reply to an earlier post on May 10, 2012 11:37:46 AM PDT
circsavy says:
@David,
I had a foreskin into my 20's and from my perspective, having it was a real pain. I'm delighted to be free of it now.

In reply to an earlier post on May 10, 2012 11:41:19 AM PDT
J. Parkes says:
Choice is always nice...i wish i had a choice.

Posted on May 10, 2012 3:33:57 PM PDT
ciccsavy could you elaborate the pain it was to have it. Glad you had your choice I didn't. And now I have other problems I'm sure are from being circumcised. Such as diminished sensitivity causing some E.D. issues. Plus causing wife a lot of pain during sex as we aged.

In reply to an earlier post on May 10, 2012 4:23:28 PM PDT
who wants to live in a world where people have been circumcised and are angry about it?

IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT.

and if you're fixing somebody who doesn't want or need to be fixed, you might find you will make enemies of them. if someone grabbed you, held you down and circumcised you against your will, you'd be angry too. is it not best to let them be? to let them have their whole, healthy bodies, rather than treating the foreskin as if it is a birth defect that needs immediate cosmetic surgery? people who advocate for involuntary circumcision worry me... what's next? what if you decided that all women should be circumcised? i don't want to live in a world where people do unto others what they would never want done to them. you chose your penis style. many of us didn't. put yourself in our shoes. human rights means that you make your own decisions, not decide for others.

you are a bully, m'dear. you cut up little children. do you love the part where they scream? just asking.

In reply to an earlier post on May 10, 2012 4:25:10 PM PDT
i am glad you are rid of it too. but you should not assume that others who have whole, healthy bodies are dissatisfied; most who are intact are glad they are and cringe to think of anyone taking a knife to the most sensitive part of their anatomy. you are very strange, cs.

In reply to an earlier post on May 10, 2012 10:17:54 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 10, 2012 10:32:45 PM PDT
Gumbee65 says:
@DisplacedMic,

RU resorting to ad hominems and red-herrings? :-/

Or ru being sarcastic? Just to clarify.

In reply to an earlier post on May 10, 2012 10:24:43 PM PDT
Gumbee65 says:
@circsavy,

How do you feel about forms of female non-consensual cutting that are arguably beneficial to the girl and less invasive then male circumcision? Is this parental choice as well and if not why?

In reply to an earlier post on May 11, 2012 5:52:11 AM PDT
DisplacedMic says:
I was being sarcastic. Not sure how that's not abundantly clear...

But for the record - what I said was neither an ad hominem nor a red-herring.

In reply to an earlier post on May 11, 2012 7:15:47 AM PDT
circsavy says:
@Patricia
You're treading on being discusting with your final comment. It seems obvious that you have issues that stem from your circumcision and I'm sorry about that, but resent your suggestion that I get some kind of sick pleasure from defending parents' right to choose what they believe is best for their young sons.

In reply to an earlier post on May 11, 2012 7:20:27 AM PDT
circsavy says:
@Jeff,
It was perhaps the result of growing up in a place where the vast majority of boys were cut that got me aware that my foreskin was smelly, overly sensitive, and unattractive. I was never teased about my status, but I was unhappy to have it and wanted to be rid of it from as far back as I can remember. I wished even as a young child that my parents would have made the decision to have me cut. Since they didn't, I ultimately arranged for it myseld.

In reply to an earlier post on May 11, 2012 7:24:52 AM PDT
circsavy says:
@Gumbee,
I joined in the discussion from the perspective of male circumcision. I have no experience with female cutting, though pictures of some teen girls being held down and cut are awful. That said, my point remains focused on male RIC and with pain relief used, I support parental rights to do what they believe to be in the best interest of their sons.

In reply to an earlier post on May 11, 2012 8:09:10 AM PDT
TD says:
>>my foreskin was smelly, overly sensitive, and unattractive.

Okay, now this is interesting.

Why was it smelly? Were you not bathing at all? Or perhaps cleaning with soaps and/or over-cleaning? Was there something in your diet that was causing the prepuce to smell? Most intact guys I know have never had an issue with odor.

How do you quantify "overly sensitive"? What you call "overly sensitive", another might call "the normal amount of sensation". It may have been rough for you, but it is a completely subjective experience. My son couldn't fathom NOT having his prepuce. I'm partially restored and cannot imagine going back.

Again, "unattractive" is subjective. You were living in an environment where abnormal was normal, which colored your view of your own body. Dysmorphia is actually *not* normal.

>>I support parental rights to do what they believe to be in the best interest of their sons.

What you have illustrated here is a compelling case to wait and let the individual decide what body parts he wants to keep. Empowering your child to make an informed choice as an adult is much more important than cutting his or her genitals to fit in with the crowd or because "they might want it later". It wasn't your parents' call to make. It was YOUR decision and YOUR responsibility as an informed adult to choose cosmetic surgery on your genitals. And you had it done - good for you. Don't the rest of us deserve the right you had, to make our own decisions about our bodies?
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Discussion in:  Health forum
Participants:  447
Total posts:  3952
Initial post:  Jun 10, 2011
Latest post:  Dec 25, 2014

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