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Oncologist admits no cure to cancer.


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Showing 351-375 of 656 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 1:16:15 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 11, 2012 3:25:50 PM PDT
Hey, it's only $23.

Based on the Amazon book blurb, Spellman, I don't see that Denise is offering a cancer cure. According to one review however, she seems to be promoting the idea that you need to be positive to beat cancer, so presumably if you are depressed/down about your diagnosis, it's your fault if you don't get better.

And you evidently need to look worldwide instead of just offering East Coast cures. ;)

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 1:20:24 PM PDT
A. Trevino says:
@Mary Rogers

33.9 billion spent on "alternative meds" from 2006-2007. That's not chicken scratch. There is money to be made on "supplements". Things do not need to be patented to make some big bucks as you can see. They can likely have an even higher profit margin as there is not the same level or research put forth and the quality control is not regulated AT ALL.

Docs do not get kickbacks in the least bit. Check the laws of the land out there. It can't happen. Also, what you mentioned pertains to research docs that get grants from PHARMA for RESEARCH. It has to be reported though because conflicts of interest can arise and the public (INCLUDING DOCTORS) have to take this into account when reading their peer-reviewed articles. It always matters when PHARMA contributes to research funds for docs. Always. No doctor is writing a script for an anti-depressant and getting a check from the drug company for "sending business" their way. No stocks are traded, no pens are given (this changed a while back), it is even rare for a drug company to have a dinner where a presentation is given about a disease process anymore. You are thinking about old school stuff from the eighties. Seriously.

New cancer treatments are always being researched - What in your opinion is "panning out", though? Do you mean cure for metastatic cancers? Well, don't hold your breath. Sometimes there are some great things but it seems like babysteps are the way it works for most drugs/treatments. This is not a bacterial infection that we are trying to defeat here. These are YOUR OWN CELLS that we need to destroy that are inherently adaptive to selective pressures (i. e. chemo treatment). It be hard, mang!

Good discussion. At least you are not like that Chelsea person...gawd!

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 1:51:13 PM PDT
spellman says:
@Andrew
I always knew my skills were limited.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 4:53:27 PM PDT
Spellman,

I NEVER said that penicillan cured cancer. I was giving an example of a medicine that comes from nature, since it seems that people do not want to believe it is possible. And yes I know it has to be processed. You yourself are saying that plant-based medicine is the basis for many modern synthetic drugs, but then deny that the plants themselves don't work? If you read about this in Wikipedia you will find that historically there is evidence that mold itself was used to treat infections BEFORE modern medicine came along.

As far as a conspiracy to suppress the truth, it is more complicated than that. The doctors believe what the drug companies tell them. There is mindset among the public and the doctors that anything natural will not work period. This is very evident on this board. ANYONE on this board who discusses anything natural is attacked.

It is strange that absolutely NO ONE on here has asked how a close friend of my family recovered from cancer WITHOUT conventional medicine, even though I mentioned it. This is exactly what I am talking about! Cures for cancer ARE being announced, but no one listens. She has been cancer-free for over 20 years!

So if anyone here is open-minded enough to actually look into this "google" Richard Schultz and see what you come up with.

Of course skeptics will argue that I am trying to sell them something, but oh well.

When you come up with something better than "CUT, BURN, AND POISON" let me know.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 5:05:11 PM PDT
Spookiewon,

No one has "proven" that homeopathy and chiropractic don't work. There are studies on BOTH sides that conflict! And ask all the people that get chiropractic treatment if it works! If it doesn't work then why does insurance cover it and conventional doctors refer people to them!

RESULTS trump studies everytime!

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 5:27:39 PM PDT
Spookiewon,

At least you are a little more open than a lot of people here. I have been reacting more to those people who insist that there way is the ONLY way. I understand your point about proven treatments, the problem that I have is that there has been no serious research into alt treatments. No one wants to believe that they could possibly work!

If people don't like the odds with conventional medicine then they are forced to try to sort through things themselves and that means that yes, they can fall prey to charletons. That is why research is so important but it is not being done.

You are right about variables, but even conventional research can't control for all variables. If a cancer patient takes multivitamins can we say that these didn't play a role in their recovery?

You are right about taking into account the treatiblity of the cancer. My Dad had skin cancer (a slow-growing type) for many years and refused to get it diagnosed. The whole right side of his face looked horrible with bleeding sores. When he went into the hospital for another reason they diagnosed it and he had radiation treatments. They told him that it was very treatable and that it was unlikely because of his advanced age to return in his lifetime. I supported that decision and I was relieved that he decided to get treatment.

However, many other cancers do not respond well with conventional treatment or else the rate of reaccurance is very high. In that case it makes sense to look somewhere else for answers.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 5:45:49 PM PDT
spellman says:
@MLR
What cancer, what stage, what method did your friend use? How was it documented as a cancer? How was it staged? How does your friend know they were "cured"? What was the follow up and proof?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 5:48:10 PM PDT
spellman says:
@MLR
As spookiewon stated very clearly, results do not trump studies, ever. Anecdotes are just that. Without defining the underlying mechanism of the result observed, it is merely conjecture that a result is linked to said intervention.

Posted on Jun 11, 2012 5:54:58 PM PDT
spellman says:
@MLR
The issue concerning plants and the substances derived from them was clearly stated by Wasson. Under almost all circumstances, herbal cures are either ineffective or potentially harmful with a few exceptions. When substances fall outside of the umbrella of the FDA as herbal substances do, they then fall under the jurisdiction of a companies promotional marketing.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 6:08:52 PM PDT
Spookiewon,

I am glad you have found such good doctors, but not all of us have been that lucky. It has only been in recent years with the public's interest in alt treatments that doctors have been willing to admit that alt medicine can work at all.

As far as Niaspan, yes they do say that it is Niacin when you read the label. But they don't promote it as a vitamin. They imply that it is a drug. If people don't read the fine print then they don't know. And yes, it is up to the consumer to check it out, but many don't.

My sister one time was interested in taking Lyrica. But she is wary of addictive meds. I myself had to tell her that it is addictive. I read up on it because I was interested in it too. She didn't get that from the commercial because they said that in very fine print that was difficult to read. Doctors often won't tell you that either.

Yes there is info out there, but it is pretty much up to the consumer to find it.

I guess I am a little bit bitter because it used to be that you couldn't find out anything about the meds you were taking. I guess that has changed, though. But I am very diligent about finding out about any drug I put in my body. I don't go by just what the doctor says or what the ads say.

I am very glad about your doc treating you with omega threes. but the docs that I have seen usually don't want to talk about alternatives to drugs.

One fact that I stand by completely is the FDA's efforts to keep us from knowing about the natural alternative to artifical sweeteners Stevia (from my previous post). I WITNESSED this. If you want you can research this. What I am saying is that you can't totally trust the FDA to tell you everything. Drug studies have been faked and FDA officials have been payed to look the other way. This is not opinion, it is a matter of public record.

Yes, surgery techniques for cancer have improved, but they still haven't offered us alternatives to radiation and chemo.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 6:14:56 PM PDT
Trevino,

I am not stupid. What I read was about doctors recieving gifts for prescribing drugs. I will look it up and post it here.

Are you really so niave that you think that just because there are laws against it that it still doesn't go on? There ALWAYS going to be some doctors who will break the law!

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 6:19:22 PM PDT
She is still alive! Isn't that proof enough!

And I did post what method she used.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 6:26:50 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 11, 2012 6:29:57 PM PDT
spellman says:
@MLR
How was the cancer diagnosed? By what method at what facility? How was it staged? I can't find your prior post. Indulge me. Tell this story again.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 6:40:15 PM PDT
If herbal cures are dangerous or not effective then tell me why so many people use them safely? There are MILLIONS of people who use herbs every day and they don't keel over and die! Most of them are SAFER than pharmaceuticals!

I am not clear on whether you are talking about herbs for cancer or for other health issues but there has been plenty of research documenting their safety and effectiveness. I myself use herbs for sleep which has been proven to work. Sleeping pills, however, have been shown recently to increase your death risk by up to 600% if you use them regularly!

By the way, there was a study not long ago that claimed that Vit. D and calcium does not strengthen bones in osteoporosis. This flies in the face of all other research done. And they also convienantly forgot to tell people that the results were only valid (according to them anyway) in a certain age range. The younger people did not recieve benefits, but the older ones did!

Case in point, you can't always trust the research!

There is a reason why the FDA does not regulate herbs is because they want to take them off the market and give us only drugs. This is why so many people have protested their efforts and demanded that they leave them alone.

There are times when drugs are appropriate, but there are also times when mother nature knows best.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 6:46:57 PM PDT
You don't always have to know the underlying science in order to know that something works. What are you going to trust, your own experience or questionable studies?

Remember, I stated that studies can and do have conflicting results.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 7:08:57 PM PDT
Hey again Trevino,

Just one small point. Drugs companies make more money off of drugs than they would with natural stuff. They charge hundreds of dollars a pop for most meds. Yes, I know, research costs. But do you know that often when a patent runs out on a med then they will often change ONE molecule that makes no difference in its effectiveness and then market it as a "new" drug? Matter of public record if you want to check it out.

Plus (I may be wrong on this) I am under the impression most research is publicly funded.

No pens are given? What doctors do you go to? I see them all the time! I even HAVE some of them!

Oh well I am too tired to continue these discussions. Take it or leave it people. I've made my points.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 7:52:02 PM PDT
apriljeff says:
"that often when a patent runs out on a med then they will often change ONE molecule that makes no difference in its effectiveness and then market it as a "new" drug?"

Nope, because even one molecule changed will change the drug. When a patent runs out, every drug manufacturer can legally sell said drug under a generic name.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 7:52:47 PM PDT
apriljeff says:
hmmm the only pens in my drs' offices are bics or papermates

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 7:58:30 PM PDT
apriljeff says:
"One fact that I stand by completely is the FDA's efforts to keep us from knowing about the natural alternative to artifical sweeteners Stevia"

That is bs. Stevia, aka, truvia, is sold in every store in america. I don't use it because it tastes like sweet grass.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012 8:15:44 PM PDT
apriljeff says:
Well what does chiropractic treatments have to do with cancer? The one time I had sciatic problems, I went to the chiropractor and took care of it. Some homeopathic substances work, but not on cancer... A case of rls and a case of brain cancer are not even in the same realm of treatments...

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2012 5:15:51 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 12, 2012 5:16:29 AM PDT
Mary: "There is a reason why the FDA does not regulate herbs is because they want to take them off the market and give us only drugs."

The actual reason the FDA does not regulate herbal drugs is that supplement-friendly lawmakers like Sen. Orrin Hatch have pushed to exempt them, while getting sizable campaign donations from the multibillion dollar supplement industry (which also hired Hatch's son as a lobbyist).

Mary: "I NEVER said that penicillan cured cancer. I was giving an example of a medicine that comes from nature, since it seems that people do not want to believe it is possible. And yes I know it has to be processed. You yourself are saying that plant-based medicine is the basis for many modern synthetic drugs, but then deny that the plants themselves don't work?"

Physicians use drugs based on plants and other "natural" substances every day, so they obviously are not denying that this source exists. What's bizarre is alties claiming that no one researches and develops plant-based drugs because they can't be patented, then gives us long lists of such drugs that entered practice (because they were found to be effective in clinical trials).

Stevia is a bad example for alties to point to as an example of supposed pharma/FDA suppression. Once Stevia was found safe in research studies, it promptly went on the market (and now alties are telling us it can't be trusted because it's sold by corporations, and claiming that their "natural" product causes all kinds of side effects).

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2012 5:55:31 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 12, 2012 6:35:06 AM PDT
spellman says:
@MLR
If herbal cures are dangerous or not effective then tell me why so many people use them safely? There are MILLIONS of people who use herbs every day and they don't keel over and die! Most of them are SAFER than pharmaceuticals!

Right. They don't die. Nor is their efficacy documented with few exceptions such as ginger. Wasson's point was missed I see. You don't eat foxglove when you're in CHF. Many herbals effect the clotting mechanism and are dangerous in the face of conventional meds that effect peripheral cell counts. I'm not sure what sources you are referring to about safety and effectiveness of herbal treatments for any condition. There is research, then there is research. Look at the Gogi juice literature, paid for by the company.

"Case in point, you can't always trust the research!"

Very true. You should have been trained in that discipline to understand how to sift through research and pick out flaws in the studies.

"There is a reason why the FDA does not regulate herbs is because they want to take them off the market and give us only drugs.You don't always have to know the underlying science in order to know that something works. What are you going to trust, your own experience or questionable studies?

That's just silly. There are numerous reasons why having an in depth knowledge into mechanisms is important. Experience and judgement play a role as part of decision making. It has to be based in science. Cursory view of phenomena often give seemingly convincing but misleading results that can lead to disasterous results in judgement. Cancer cluster studies illustrates a classic venue where the lay public believes a cancer source is evident when no such association exists. Yes studies do have conflicting results. Particularly when they are single institutional or poorly powered. Not so with large prospective randomized studies of a multi-institutional nature. Changing one molecule in drugs will change effectiveness. The active form of a drug is a single molecule. Changing that changes the drug. Oh, by the way, pens are not kickbacks, graft, or part of the free trade market.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2012 7:03:49 AM PDT
Mary: "If herbal cures are dangerous or not effective then tell me why so many people use them safely? There are MILLIONS of people who use herbs every day and they don't keel over and die!"

And some do sustain serious injury and death. Case in point - aristolochia, used for centuries in Chinese herbal medicine and still found in herbal products to this day, sometimes as an adulterant of which users are unaware. It has caused numerous cases of severe urinary tract damage, cancers requiring renal transplantation, and deaths.

http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB/document_library/Scientific_guideline/2010/04/WC500089957.pdf

In comparing pharmaceuticals to herbal drugs, you need to ask: How many people take herbal drugs as opposed to pharmaceuticals? Is the herbal preparation demonstrated to have effectiveness against any disease? If not, how can any serious side effects be justified?

Posted on Jun 12, 2012 9:40:33 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 12, 2012 9:49:18 AM PDT
qrnow says:
Cancer is an industry and a very profitable one at that! It is supported by the Corporate controlled media who propagandize expensive and destructive therapies like carcinogenic chemo and radiation as well as ineffective and invasive surgery which never gets all of the cancer cells, eliminates the body's defense mechanism of localizing the cancer and causes the cancer to spread.

There are less invasive and more effective naturally based therapies that are available if you can suspend the state of fear whipped up by a dutiful media which prompts you to bend thy knee to an "authority" figure who profits admirably from patients they rarely cure since in reality the body cures itself if we permit it to by providing it with the necessary tools to do so.

Below is a list of alternative oriented books which can point you in another direction when it comes to addressing this health issue. Suspend your fears and take a look. You will surely discover that you are not without options and/or confined only to costly and destructive choices such as chemotherapy, radiation and surgery:

Outsmart Your Cancer With CD 2nd Revised & enlarged edition
Cancer: Step Outside the Box
World Without Cancer: The Story of Vitamin B17
Cancer Is Not A Disease - It's A Survival Mechanism
The Breast Stays Put: No Chemo-No Radiation-No Lumpectomy-No Thank YouHidden Story of Cancer
Hidden Story of Cancer

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2012 9:46:20 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 12, 2012 9:46:43 AM PDT
Gee!

No one has ever claimed a conspiracy revolving around money before!

This is ereally ground-breaking stuff!
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