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Customer Discussions > Health forum

The Honey Revolution

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Showing 451-475 of 1000 posts in this discussion
Posted on Apr 18, 2012 10:41:49 PM PDT
CopperMango says:
Did you guys know that honey was used in surgeries in the past to prevent infection during surgery? In fact, honey is an antibiotic!!!! Did you guys know that Royal Jelly, consumed by the queen bee, is made from the glands of special bees in the hive, and that the Queen Bee lives 1 to 5 years, compared to about a month for a typical worker bee?

Bees play a very important role in pollination, and they also provide beeswax (which, may I add, is most delightful for candle-material, and a burning beeswax candle releases a sweet honey smell and negative ions as well).

Posted on Apr 18, 2012 11:33:04 PM PDT
That is the worst failing of our medical model, TD5757. Without a little bit of faith, there is no hope, aye?

That is very bad, when one's only hope lies with a machine. I trust things aren't as bad as you seem to think they are, as a life without hope is not appealing to me.

Fortunately for the medical establishment there are still plenty of people who have faith in them. I guess everyone deserves a few followers, so hop to it and sell them on the idea that without you and your ilk they have no hope.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, many of us will keep believing that we can fix ourselves. It seems to me that if no hope exists for an individual to improve on his birth inheritance, then the human race is forever destined to be hung right here where we are now! Certainly believing that we are sick, now and forever is a sure way to make it real. Yes, we risk our lives to think we can change things, but that doesn't keep many folk from trying. Many of them succeed too. I want to be one of that bunch! I wish it for everyone too, if they want to try!

The forces of life within every cell in my body has creative powers way beyond my comprehension. To deny them the chance to do their stuff by my negativity is to limit their power. There is much potential for healing, renewal, possibly even rebirth, than what appears in your text book, TD5757. If you can't muster the courage to walk towards better health, I can't see you ever being able to lead anyone else in that direction.

Enlightenment is knowing who to seek help from!



Posted on Apr 19, 2012 1:35:32 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 19, 2012 2:45:00 AM PDT
ParrotSlave says:
John$, the sidr honey seems to be more effective against MRSA than manuka. Testing against methicillin-resistant staph aureus grown on a biofilm, the sidr killed 73% of the bacteria, while the manuka only killed 63%. Against staph aureus that is not methicillin resistant, i.e., plain old normal staph aureus, the manuka did better than the sidr, 82% vs 63%. They were equally effective against pseudomonas aeruginosa, and both were 100% effective against any of those bacteria that were grown in culture instead of on a film. See

A Saudi study found "Yemeni Sidr, Taify Sidr, Shaoka, and Manuka honeys were relatively more powerful antibacterials than other honeys....It may be concluded from this study that Shaoka and Sidr honeys available in Saudi market are potent antibacterial against pathogenic and food spoilage bacteria. This suggests that these tested honeys could be used for treatment of local bacterial infections and for preservation of food from spoilage." ( The shaoka, which they also spell shokah, seems to be about twice as potent as sidr. I don't see any available for sale anywhere, however. When I read about new things that taste good, I want to taste them. Alas....

Another recent Saudi study found sidr honey to be much more effective than standard antibacterial treatment in getting rid of a Leishmania major infection in hamsters: "The 25 group of hamsters treated with honey responded to treatment after one week. The control group treated with pentostam injection showed low response to treatment, it took prolonged time to heal up to 12-16 weeks." (

Posted on Apr 19, 2012 3:48:23 AM PDT
Yeah, I hear you. I have attempted to purchase some of that good southern Tupelo too, but alas, the honey industry has more laws against it than the alcohol or medicine industry does. I wonder how these tests would compare if done in other labs with other samples? Honey is so unmercifully varied in its composition it defies the expectations of modern chemist in their search for medicines. Maybe mother nature intended it to only be used as a food, and let its medicinal properties be the surprise bonus depending on the season, the locality etc.

One consideration I would have if testing honey samples would be knowing quite a good bit about how, where and from what flower, what beekeeper etc., it originated. I'm afraid honey that has passed through many hands, changed countries, cultures, languages and morality zones, is subject to much abuse. There continues to be a mantra amongst some outspoken scientist that a molecule of glucose is a molecule of glucose, is a molecule of glucose etc. ad nauseum. I believe that is nothing short of a lie, or at best a delusion. Feeding test with mice show conclusively that this is not the case at all. Feeding experiments with the general public is confirming it too for those with their eyes wide open.

I would expect a lab in Sydney would have a bias toward Australian honey, if not in the mind, then owing to knowing the culture of the local production and who to trust, who to get samples from etc. Buying samples of imported honey to test seems fraught with risk in this light. There is a strong cultural and moral content in the production of honey, and such is not easy to quantify in the international arena and with paper money as the numeraire.

Have you read the book, Honey Spinner: On the Trail of Ancient Honey, Vanishing Bees, and the Politics of Liquid Gold ? It also goes by the name, "The Honey Trail." It is a great read, more as a travelogue than a technical reference, but Grace Pundyk's love of honey took her around the world investigating it through the eyes of many ethnic and cultural groups. Maybe you and I need to make such a pilgrimage? That's ok, I have just recently been given a copy of The Bucket List, and watched it for the first time!

Like all the gifts of nature, we are surrounded by them, in profusion, until of course, we surround ourselves with concrete and bitumen. The best honey in the world still has to be the honey one wins from his own efforts at a bees nest.

There is little doubt but what microbes and indeed microscopic flora are continuing to evolve, adapt and change in their bid for survival. Honey has the power to evolve with them, if only mankind weren't so hung up on their patents and protocols.

With the sample of Sidr I purchased (at great expense) I find little to recommend it, but admit to not having really put it to anything resembling a scientific test. It for the most part seems more like the High Maltose Syrup (44 Baume) I once produced when employed in a glucose factory. I hope I am eventually proven wrong in my judgment, and that I will find out some way or other that I have purchased the real thing.

Mankind would not need all these high-tech medicines if only his lifestyle for the past fifty years had included some ordinary, local, raw and natural honey. It is probably more outstanding as a preventative than it ever will be as a miracle cure. How long will mankind continue to ignore it in favour of the easy life? I wonder!

I despair somewhat at all this new scientific expense looking at honey. It has all been done before so many times it is nauseating, yet as a culture, we sweep it under the carpet and go on marketing our swine oil. Once when I was invited to supply samples for yet another round of tests, I simply declined, as I know it will only be the researchers who experience the change of heart, while the general public will go merrily on believing what the WHO tell them. Most of this research is aimed at finding ways to synthesise and duplicate and copy and patent and market to great advantage. Precious little of it is truly devoted to improving the health of mankind generally.

Honey continues to be free in the back yard for anyone who wants to be healthy. The rest will just have to continue on suffering I suppose. I trust they enjoy their penitence.



Posted on Apr 19, 2012 6:38:19 AM PDT
This has become such an interesting discussion. I'm still not sure I have an answer to my question of "is honey a Good or a Bad" with respect to low carb dieting. But I guess I'll follow John's lead and let honey be the ONLY sugary sweetener I use and then see where that leaves me in a year or two. Thank God I am not severely overweight (just a little soft around the edges) and do not have diabetes or heart disease (or any serious condition that I know of!), so dieting is not an emergency situation for me. If a diet that includes honey slows my weight loss a little, then so be it, as long as I'm headed in the right direction.

My bees are doing extremely well this year. My first hive is strong and I put a honey super on it a few days ago. Hopefully they are filling it already! Another package of bees is expected in the mail this weekend. It feels good and right with the world to be a beekeeper. Anyone who wants a new hobby and possesses an appreciation of the natural world would be well advised to take up beekeeping, as it is an absolutely fascinating endeavor.

One small point of order though... it has been said that the brain needs glucose to function. While this may be technically true, it does NOT mean that you must eat glucose or you'll die. The body has the ability to convert protein to glucose (gluconeogenesis). What's more, the brain seems to run quite efficiently on ketones (the chemicals produced by the fat burning process in a low-carb diet). Since going low-carb, I have more energy, my memory is better, mood has improved, and I sleep better at night. My brain seems to be firing on all cylinders, even on days when I eat less than 20 grams of carbs all day. I can easily understand why some doctors prescribe ketosis-inducing low carb diets for depression, seizures, and other disorders of the brain. It may in fact be the case that ketones are the brain's preferred fuel.

As for matters of faith and self-help, well I'm reminded of the following joke (practically a modern parable):

There occurs a terrible flood. A man's front yard is flooded such that he cannot get out the front door. Someone comes by in a row boat offering to save him but he declines, saying "God will save me." It keeps raining and a while later his first floor is flooded and he is forced to go upstairs. Someone passes by in a bigger boat and offers to help him, but again he declines, saying "God will save me." Still the rain continues and now the man is forced to the top of his roof. An even bigger boat comes by and rescuers shout to him to come aboard but again he shouts back "God will save me." Finally the water rushes over his roof and the man drowns. He goes to Heaven and says to God "I had faith in you... why didn't you save me from the flood?" God responds simply "Who do you think sent all those boats?"

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 19, 2012 7:10:46 AM PDT
"Fortunately for the medical establishment there are still plenty of people who have faith in them. I guess everyone deserves a few followers, so hop to it and sell them on the idea that without you and your ilk they have no hope."

John, I've hepled design healthy lifestyle intervention programs that have kept people off prescription drugs and out of the doctor's office. Not sure how you can argue against that.

"The forces of life within every cell in my body has creative powers way beyond my comprehension."

Those forces of life also destroy pancreatic cells in people with IDDM. The forces of life do not share our happy-go-lucky hopes for life. They work at their own will. We just learn to deal with them the best way possible. You have two choices. You either seek professional help, or you die a relatively slow death from high blood glucose-inducing kidney failure, seizures, etc....

Posted on Apr 19, 2012 7:27:02 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 19, 2012 8:53:39 AM PDT
ParrotSlave says:
John$, I believe that there is no need to invoke magic or mystical energy or molecules remembering their past histories to explain the properties of honey, or of any other food or drug. A molecule of glucose IS a molecule of glucose, and it is no different than any other molecule of glucose, unless one of the atoms happens to be, say, a C14, or one of the hydrogens, say, a deuterium, or one of the oxygens perhaps an O18 or O17. It is going to be slightly different, depending on what it is around: the conformation of the molecule is going to be different in water than it is in a rigid crystalline lattice. But a glucose molecule doesn't carry around a suitcase that stores its itinerary, telling you that, last month it was in the mouth of bee #1417 of hive #2424, but day before yesterday it was placed in a jar by a beekeeper who was stealing it from the bees. If you have an exact analysis of what is in a honey, and recreate a batch of honey from your analysis, it should have the identical behavior to your "natural" honey in any biological system--but that does mean including every single trace metal, every enzyme, every single phytochemical, etc. Honey does have demonstrably different biochemical activity compared to the identical simple sugar mixture devoid of those other ingredients, and chemists are, of course, laboring as we speak in various laboratories trying to identify the interesting components to explain the activity.

You will probably argue that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, that you cannot get the same thing by adding the parts together, an argument that would belie the fact that the whole was ever created in the first place. I'm not saying that you could analyze a piece of filet mignon and then create a duplicate in the laboratory: that is not quite within reach of our technology yet. But honey has no structural properties, such as complex chemical lattices, that could not be duplicated: it is a fluid mixture.

You mentioned the sidr resembling maltose syrup: I had noticed the same thing, that it was very much like something I had tasted at one time, but I couldn't put my finger on it. Your mention jogged my memory, and I do now remember, a few years ago, buying a jar of Aunt Patty's malt syrup: that is what it resembles. And I had the identical concern you did about it to the extent that I made a few phone calls trying to find out if a laboratory existed that would analyze it (for a reasonable sum) and be able to say to me, yes or no, it really is sidr or not.

My concern is based on many decades of observing human nature. It is so easy for me to visualize someone, having a batch of that very real, very expensive, very rare sidr, saying to themselves, "This is so precious, and so rare, and I am one of the few people on earth who truly appreciates it. What a waste it would be to give this precious substance to that crude American, or crude whatever; he probably wouldn't know the difference anyway if I gave him HFCS with a few flavors and colors thrown in. It would be a sin to give him the real thing, so I'll just mix up the HFCS, and keep the real thing myself, or sell it to someone who really appreciates it, and that way make more money. There's no way anybody would ever find out anyway. What could go wrong?"

Posted on Jun 5, 2012 3:28:27 PM PDT
ParrotSlave says:
See for a discussion of a new explanation for colony collapse disorder, CCD. "Here we provide the first documentation that the phorid fly Apocephalus borealis, previously known to parasitize bumble bees, also infects and eventually kills honey bees and may pose an emerging threat to North American apiculture. Parasitized honey bees show hive abandonment behavior, leaving their hives at night and dying shortly thereafter." The discovery arose accidentally, according to a discussion of the research in Scientific American in the March, 2012, issue: a biology professor, John Hafernik, had been collecting dead bees to use as food for his praying mantises, and, because of his self-admitted absent-mindedness, stated that he had "left them in a vial on my desk and forgot about them. The next time I looked at the vial, there were all these fly pupae surrounding the bees."

Posted on Jun 5, 2012 5:15:35 PM PDT
Yeah, good one, ParrotSlave. Now we know. Isn't most science accidentally discovered? And is it still possible that there are multiple triggers to the CCD? Or, having found this one, will we now abandon all concerns about all the others that may or may not exist?

Yet the bumble bee continues to populate our gardens, despite this critter's presence, and since before time began perhaps.

The worst worry I have with this discovery, is that it will only serve to initiate another round of poisons to lade the bee with in mankind's attempt to neutralize this fly. The fly will now become our scapegoat. The fly is the devil, and the angles of light will now try to conquer him.

Meanwhile, mankind is absolved of his guilt of harassing the bee to the point where it can no longer defend itself against this fly, which it may well have done up unto this last few years. We can now continue to lade them with an ever increasing number and amount of poisons, poor grade substitute foods and stress them to the breaking point.

In my opinion, no critter succumbs to the point of extinction from parasitic attack unless the defence mechanisms of old have been compromised. But no one wants to go back to the old ways; we all seek the new, the popular and the financially rewarding ways so we can carry on doing the wrong thing.

The honeybee (and the insects generally) have survived much worse conditions (ice ages?) whilst mankind is but an infant on this planet. My concern is for mankind, as his demise looks far more likely than that of the insects.



In reply to an earlier post on Jun 5, 2012 5:44:07 PM PDT
ParrotSlave says:
I'm sure that it will end up being, not a "the" cause, but a combination. The susceptibility or attraction to the wasps might very well have been increased by something else. You might be interested in a 9 second video I made of my wasp friend, Herman, feeding on honey I had given him. I mentioned that sometime last year. The wasps still keep getting in, and I have no problem with them. I catch them, feed them some honey, then let them outside. Maybe they're telling each other where the honey is!

Posted on Jun 5, 2012 6:16:43 PM PDT
Indeed there are many creatures who like the contents of the beehive.

Sorry for now, George, but I cannot seem to install Flash Player. Maybe one day I will catch up.

On the other hand, Mankind are quite prepared to ingest materials no other animal will touch! The bees are not attracted to many of the glucose syrups we make. Neither Rats nor insects will eat maragarine, nor will mold grow on it. And I heard on the news this morning that cancer is mysterious!



In reply to an earlier post on Jun 6, 2012 5:22:11 AM PDT
"In my opinion, no critter succumbs to the point of extinction from parasitic attack unless the defence mechanisms of old have been compromised."

And the beekeepers see none of their own fault in this? Do you think kept hives mimic a bee's natural life? Is selective breeding going on? Are bee's breed for robust health or docility and honey production? Perhaps you and your ilk have breed the natural defenses out of them?

Posted on Jun 6, 2012 6:48:05 AM PDT
Quite likely, all of you are right. Honey bees are plagued by all sorts of viruses, bacteria, mites, fungal diseases, and other insects. Add one more to the list. They are also sickened by chemicals - most particularly the neonicotinoids (a ban on which the EPA has thus far been dragging its feet on implementing), but also many agricultural and home/garden pesticides. Compounding the issue is that beekeepers have most certainly selected for docility and honey production at the the expense of colony health. Queens are produced from relatively closed populations and shipped all over the country so that the same genetic fingerprints are now painted with a wide brush all across the lower 48 and beyond. Any problems that result from these practices have typically been dealt with by the application of yet more chemicals - bee "medications" which are themselves more pesticides. Is it any wonder that colonies are collapsing?

The only good news I have to report is that awareness is growing among beekeepers. Many of us have decided to go treatment free, refusing to medicate even if that means losing a hive. There is also a lot of interest in small cell/natural cell comb management. Rather than giving bees plastic or wax foundation which they must extend into honeycomb, many beeks are simply letting the bees make their own comb from scratch. This is what they are naturally programmed to do and it seems that allowing them to do it results in better colony health (particularly as concerns the horrible varroa mite). Some folks are also refusing to buy queens and starter packages from distant regions. We try to buy local, to raise our own queens, and to catch local wild swarms (survivor stock) whenever possible. The hope here is that these management practices will promote regional genetic diversity such that bees with the right genes can fend for themselves against pests and disease.

While it seems quite possible to me that restoring a wider and deeper gene pool will help bees against pests and disease, it seems a lot less likely that we will ever find a race of bees that are immune to all the chemicals that we spray all over the planet. That is why I think the most important thing is to appropriately control and regulate the use of these chemicals, starting with the neonicotinoids, which we know for sure are bad for bees.

Posted on Jun 6, 2012 12:20:48 PM PDT
Hmm, sounds like John is contributing to his own demise. Seems he's actually doing what he accuses others of.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 28, 2012 1:19:04 PM PDT
J. Hutchins says:
Honeybees are not native to North America. They are an invasive species. Their biggest problem, Varroa Destructor is also non-native and invasive. Honeybees have not developed natural defenses to varroa because they have not been exposed to them for thousands of years. Beekeepers certainly select for desirable qualities. Among those are resistance to disease and parasites. A beekeepers first concern is in having health strong colonies. Sick bees cannot be strong honey producers. Although it is true that most of today's stock comes from a small gene pool propagated by large queen producers. Many state and local associations are implementing organized local queen rearing initiatives to promote local survivor stocks

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 28, 2012 3:27:30 PM PDT
For sure there is plenty wrong in our commercial beekeeping world, as no animal can withstand excessive stresses and pressures. However, the honeybee is probably much better equipped to survive than mankind is, unless, of course, a few of us retreat to the wildernesses where the bees are still in a healthy state, wherever that might bee.

Bees have the advantage of getting most of their food from flowers and the flower contains the most highly and intricately developed compounds of all the plant parts. So the human survivors of, say, a total worldwide nuclear holocaust and 'winter,' would possibly be beekeepers who live alongside the wild nest in the said wildernesses and ate the Paelo diet!

In the Chernobyl incident, honey was the first food product to come from the contaminated area that was below the safety threshold for radiation count. Honey is great for radiation damage too, right from sunburn to medical radiation and nuclear accident or otherwise. I apply it topically and ingest it as well, so the burns are quick to heal and the pain is reduced.

Yes, Danny, I (like all other humans) am actively contributing to my own demise. Many of them aren't as aware of it as I am, so they take few steps to reduce the pace.



Posted on Jun 28, 2012 4:35:50 PM PDT
ParrotSlave says:
John$, I am wondering again about the $idr honey. If you go to, you will find a list of international wholesalers. The company at the top of the list today is in India, and their minimum order is five metric tons, at $25 to $33 a kilo in that quantity. Another company, from Yemen, has a minimum order of one ton. The Pakistani $idr seems to be the most reasonably priced if you don't have the funds or the storage to buy it in ton quantities; you can get it for around $45 a kilo. There is a Singapore company whose price is listed as $0 per kilo, which does seem like a good buy, but I imagine that if they were to honor that price, the shipping would be horrendous.

What I'm wondering is this: could Yemen be producing so much $idr that it can be sold in ton quantities by so many vendors? I had imagined that there were a few valleys somewhere and maybe a few dozen beekeepers, and it's hard to imagine how they could be collecting that much $idr. I find it difficult to believe, having observed the operation of human greed in our world for more than six decades, that there would not exist vendors who would be able to resist the temptation to sell Chinese or even other non-$idr honey to satisfy the demand. How would one tell if it were real?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 29, 2012 7:18:49 AM PDT
J. Hutchins says:
I'm not familiar with Sidr honey from Yemen. But the only way to know if any honey is what it claims to be is testing to see what type of pollen it contains or to know your local beekeeper.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 29, 2012 7:30:49 AM PDT
TinkHerToy says:
You're writing way over people's heads...too much information, WAY too wordy, and please put away your damn thesaurus, it's just annoying.

Honey is fine. Honey is natural. I prefer to buy local honey. But all things in moderation, please...even those things that are good for you. Life is about balance, not going all wing-nut over one particular foodstuff. I also like to cook with and use agave nectar, molasses, brown rice syrup, maple syrup and good ol' C&H CANE sugar from Hawaii. I avoid any and all artificial and chemical sweeteners and I never buy a product with high fructose corn syrup. I'm healthy and happy and fine.

Posted on Jul 2, 2012 5:00:47 AM PDT
I have yet to discover the perfect, cheap, kitchen oriented method of testing for absolute flower sourced honey, free of factory derived sugars. At the moment I am studying the toffee making test. I have yet to find a honey from natural sources that can be used exclusively in making toffee candy.

A confectionery expert I interrogated regarding this insists that toffee can only be made using a minimum of two sugars, but `sugars' is such an emotive word, I am none the wiser. So combining zorbitol with mannose, for instance still may not make reasonable toffee. Invert Sugar (a term not commonly used here in Oz however, ............maybe redundant elsewhere too?) is said to be sucrose, which is a molecule containing bonded molecules of both glucose and fructose. However, those same two sugars as present in natural honey are said to be 'not' bonded. So when is a sugar a sugar and when is it not?

I recently bought honey from a 'farmer's market' with minimum labelling information, a verbal floral source and no weight, obviously from local and kitchen oriented sources. When I tasted it, the only flavour I could detect was that of toffee. So I made toffee with it, just to test the idea. I also attempted to make toffee with my own honey, with a known (to me) source. The honey tended to burn and blacken far too early in the dehydrating/cooking phase, and was rather immediately 'sticky' once cooled and exposed to the air.

The toffee from the sample I had purchased didn't make perfect toffee either, not that I am an expert, but I have made toffee successfully before (using white table sugar, of course), but this sample was also prone to attract some moisture and get 'sticky' to the touch. I deduced that it may well have contained a small percentage of honey, but insufficient to change the flavour much. My climate here is not quite arid, but definitely on the dry side, so I suspect a humidity of say, 20 to 40% on the day I made the toffee, which is not excessive. In coastal and humid or tropical locations, it would be possible to see even professionally made toffee candies stick together and even soften over a period of several weeks, but honey apparently does not just absorb moisture from the atmosphere, it `attracts' it!

Other deductions I made include:
The honey blackens owing to the (small amounts?) proteins in it, and possibly gums (or other substances?).
The fructose in the honey is the culprit when it comes to making and keeping it dry and brittle.

Questions I need answers to:

Can one make toffee with agave syrup, especially one that claims to be 90% fructose? Hard candies here in Oz are made using high-maltose glucose (from wheat starch). Fructose-like syrups from the same factory were in my time, used mainly in sweetening soft drinks. So is it the fructose in honey that keeps it from making good toffee? The candy maker I spoke to claims it is possible to make toffee containing some honey, but was not able or willing to disclose the percentages. So maybe like with many prepared foods, more honey goes on the label than in the foodstuff itself!

The Sidr honey I received is near enough to tasteless, when compared to most poignant medicinal honeys I am familiar with. If its `premier' status comes more from its religious associations, then so be it, but if from its scarcity, then I too would be suspicious of the ton lot being made available to internet buyers. The Mesquite honey from those desert oasis type valleys in Arizona is both scarce and delicately flavoured, but not traditionally any more sought after for its medicinal properties than any other honey, as far as I am aware. The Saguaro cactus honey is also delicate and delicious, and even more scarce, but who is getting any premium price for it? Desert plants generally tend to be very high in bioflavonoids owing to the challenges of their environment.

Good merchandising (especially by the religious leaders of any society) seems to be the determining factor in the profitability of any medicine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only rule of thumb I have access to for all of these quality and source dilemmas, George, is: caveat emptor. You are 100% correct about the nature of mankind (and the ladies too). Dr. Fessenden in his book, The Honey Revolution: Restoring the Health of Future Generations Insists, "Buy your honey from someone your trust." The Americanism I remember and use always is: `In God we trust, all others please pay cash!'

I would like to hear from anyone currently testing their serum sugar levels as they experiment with various sweeteners (and especially those labelled `honey) what their experience is with how these various concoctions are dealt with in the human metabolism, as I suspect we all must decide for ourselves which sweeteners suit our metabolism, for ourselves and by ourselves. Yes, the personal feeding test is the ultimate guide. Always consult your health professional, but always make up your own mind!

As our parrotheadedtink indicates, if one is doing just fine on his personal sources, where is the problem? Dr. Fessenden's `trust' can just as easily be invested in our local grocer as in our local pharmacy and herbalist. It is that faith, that trust, that expectation that makes all the difference, so blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.

Tink, as Hucklberry Finn said, had I have had more time, I could have written you a shorter missive, but the thesaurus?..................... GONE!.



Posted on Aug 29, 2012 9:37:46 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 29, 2012 9:46:38 PM PDT
Oh Dear.............. the sweetest thread at amazon forums............ and only two persons voted. Thank you, Forum Police, Wasson and Danni, for your votes. It is better to be tormented than ignored.

On my recent foray into Texas, I was delighted to find a few bottles of honey that I considered to be local, real, beekeeper oriented and of tremendous value. One of them smacks of a flavour I had long ago forgotten, and I suspect it was from the Mesquite tree, as remnants of those thorny trees were still in flower in July. I made it home with two jars of Texas honey, and this morning had Texas honey on my waffles. It will be a sad day when that bottle is empty. The second jar is more likely to be from clover, or some other very bland nectar. But medicine from home is always welcome, and I deplore the myriad rules and impediments now in place that prevent amazon from posting honey out to me here in Australia. It had been my intention to get them to send honey to my relatives there in Texas, and I could then convey it to Oz, but in the very hectic count down to my trip, I was simply unable to get the order placed.

Isn't it marvellous how all these rules and regulations are mainly there as trade barriers and so forth. When it comes to holding up ten Jumbos full of passengers in a receiving terminal, those rules simply get ignored or interpreted in a more lenient manner, so I can walk the honey through, fully declared and presented to the bio-security personnel, but it is not permitted to send it by post from amazon.

I also had occasion recently to meet a person at the markets who claims to be an expert on international honey affairs. I interrogated him at length, but his wife was in a hurry, so I do hope he revisits my honey stall. If my honey comes up to his most demanding of expectations, no doubt he will return. He claimed to have had the Sidr honey on his breakfast toast that morning, so I ask him to please describe its flavour. About all I could get out of him was that it does come with distinctive flavour, and that the sample I procured at great cost was most likely seriously diluted or worse. Not to worry, I may have to go to Yemen one day.......... maybe I can find out for myself. This gentleman also pronounced the word Sidr the same way I pronounce cedar. So I am wondering if in fact there is a link between these trees and the cedar family. Any botanist out there?

A third jar of honey given to me by a caring niece was, unfortunately, removed from my possession at the security gates into the international airport boarding area. I say 'unfortunate' but that is only from my own perspective. If that security person was allowed to take it home with him, then it may well have been his answer to prayer, especially if he was at that time searching for a local supplier, brand name, address etc., in pursuit of better health.

I took two samples of my own honey with me to the family reunion and did my usual taste testing with the willing relatives. The worst of it was that they all seemed to want to buy the samples, when I had no intention of marketing it to them, but only took it as a novelty (along with some Australian Macadamia Nuts).

I did have a supply of the abridged edition of The Honey Revolution: Restoring the Health of Future Generations sent to Dallas, and out of some 20 to 30 households represented by the 60 odd persons who attended the reunion, a good dozen of them bought the book, and I only offered it to them on the `honesty box' type of purchase, as I did not want to try and use my emotional influence to get them embarrassed if they didn't buy.

This was as assurance to me that the tide is definitely changing with regard to honey's place of honour amongst my kinsmen. I had refrained from attending any reunions for nine years, as it was simply too heart breaking to see them all going to fat, but was delightfully surprised this trip to find them (in the main) getting on top of the bulge and looking healthy, happy and sexy. It would be a crime for them to not eventually come to that point, as it has been the history of my family since 1940/'50 to be aware of the role of food, positive thought and disciplined lifestyle in general with relation to sickness and chronic disease. My father was a great pioneer amongst his fellows in those days, despite the reality that the good rules for living have been available in some form in every civilisation/culture/religion to ever leave us their records.

But somehow civilisation as we know it has netted us something of a `honey blindness.' We have let it go to sleep in our brain and we simply do not think of it, not as a wide population. For example, in New Mexico we happened past two roadside vendors selling pinons and local honey. Yet when I ask the other four persons with me (two were Texans) what were they selling, they only declared "Pinons." "OK, " I declared, "But what else?" One Texan said after a long pause, "Oh! Was it honey?"

Yeah, sure, it was local honey. Being the very thing so many Texans tell me they don't know where to get! OK, so the people selling the honey in New Mexico may have been indigenous Americans, maybe off the reservation, maybe they hadn't had their hands stamped by the State of Texas etc., and maybe there were all kinds of societal moors that kept my companions from wanting to recognise and accept the validity of the real foods available in New Mexico and Texas too, but to their sorrow! In preference to buying off the side of the road, we breakfasted at a fast food outlet where everything (by law) is so sterile, so refined, so technically and scientifically presented that I was more than happy to smuggle into their establishment my jar of real honey.

Needless to say, that 1 litre bottle was all but empty by the time we returned to Texas, and I was fortunate enough to trade the remains of it for a jar of honey my sister had in her cupboard. The niece who went shopping for me and found the third bottle of `local' honey for me was the recipient of the (remains of) the second bottle of Oz honey........... so it was a sweet ending to a honey of a trip to Texas. Texas could become a land of milk and honey if only it weren't for the Texans.



In reply to an earlier post on Aug 30, 2012 3:58:57 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 30, 2012 9:04:24 AM PDT
I realize you are not the sharpest knife in the drawer, John. That is why I have to keep telling you things over and over and you still don't seem to "get it"

As I have said repeatedly throughout our correspondence....I do not vote for posts on the forums....EVER!

Please direct your paranoia towards a more likely source.

Posted on Aug 30, 2012 7:34:27 AM PDT
John, thank you for another amusing and informative post. People may say what they will about the credibility of honey's health claims, but one thing is for sure... it makes for an interesting discussion when writers as thoughtful as you contribute to the conversation. I always look forward to your posts. Cheers!

Posted on Aug 30, 2012 5:05:43 PM PDT
Thanks, Diggity. I do try to ham it up a bit as I totally dislike being ignored.

Even having our ever-present forum police present with their very positive denials is better company than being alone!

That honey makes one want to be integrated with the hive!



Posted on Sep 12, 2012 3:29:49 PM PDT
After reading the article
I posted this reply: (I realize at least two of you who read won't like it!)
Don't worry about our critics, Ruth! Did you ever meet an Avon Lady who recommended Amway Products?

Natural honey promotes health in so many ways, it is seen by anyone spruiking the official "Medical-Establishment" line as their most formidable competitor. Honest people, although trained in those modern notions occasionally speak up and express their own judgment on these matters, but they too get howled down by the `experts' who stick rigidly to the "Scientific Dogma" of the establishment.

Unfortunately our world management organisations, like the WHO, the IMF and yes, even the World Council of Churches are on side with the big-dollar-oriented drug cartels. Times are changing, however, and now they are seeing that without honeybees to pollinate our crops, they themselves are at risk, along with the entire population. They are caught in a cleft stick, so to speak................ a Catch 22, if you prefer.

This `www' has given us all the freedom to research for ourselves, compare notes with each other and form our own conclusions. I can assure you the market for real honey is booming, and it will take some draconian measures from the establishment to resist that surge of people power. Honey is rising again! It is the medicine of last resort for our MRSA infections, which, I might add, are mostly contracted in our hospitals!

The folk who decry honey are either, stupid, dishonest, or seriously misinformed. If they really wanted to know the truth about the issue they would give it a serious trial in their own body and no one who does this with an open mind concludes that honey is simply another form of sugar to be avoided.

The facts are: Without sugar to the brain, we are dead in a matter of minutes. So, intelligent folk choose the finest sugars they can find. The sugars in naturally grown fruits, vegetables and honey qualify, and using them exclusively will, given time, produce excellent results in one's health.

It works for me!

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