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Customer Discussions > Health forum

Are anti-depressants as dangerous and useless as some statistics show?


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Showing 501-525 of 539 posts in this discussion
Posted on Jan 21, 2012 12:14:54 PM PST
The FAA wont let the pilots use these meds so what does this tell you?

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2012 12:22:35 PM PST
W.H. says:
FS,

It tells me that the FAA wants to weed out mentally ill pilots. It is possible that they also fear that the drugs will cause side effects but I believe it is more a case of the former than the latter.

I know a man who has struggled with depression most of his life but will not see a psychiatrist or take medication because he does not want his co-workers or superiors to know he has a problem. He believes that he could lose his job.

He functions very well and is not suicidal but he is very, very unhappy and a lot of things that might seem simple and easy to most people are terribly draining for him.

I don't know for sure that medication would help him the way it has helped me, but I think it's very sad that he will never be able to find out--not until he retires, anyway.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2012 1:59:25 PM PST
Bricktop says:
No I think it's most likely the side effects. Having a suicidal pilot would probably not be good for air travel.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2012 2:12:26 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 21, 2012 2:35:44 PM PST
W.H. says:
SB,

Untreated clinical depression can lead to suicide as well--probably much more often. I tried to kill myself before I went on medication, not after. So did a lot of the people in the outaptient group I later attended.

Depressed people were committing suicide long before any of the the current crop of anti-depressants even existed.

I doubt very much that I would be alive today if I had been forbidden to seek help and take medication.

If the pilot of my airplane were depressed, I would feel much better if I knew he or she was in treatment. I would hate to think he or she was too frightened to seek help.

I think we are all better off when our pilots feel well.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2012 2:38:47 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 21, 2012 2:39:10 PM PST
Bricktop says:
"-probably much more often" Is that based on actual statistics or just guessing?

I think we will all be better off when our medical system removes the huge financial conflicts of interest that allow GP's to prescribe SSRI's like candy when they have proved to be no better than sugar pills for mild to moderate depression even in the most pharma-friendly (funded/prestigious depending on whom you hear it from) publications like JAMA.

I've tried SSRI's and 5-HPT and counselling, the latter two worked far better, yet for some reason I was pushed to try the SSRI's first before doing my own research. I have friends that have tried MAOI's and SSRI's and are now using SAMe and have found the latter to be much better, although I've never tried it. This paragraph is all anecdotal evidence of course.

I'm glad you found a solution that worked for you.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 21, 2012 3:08:11 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 21, 2012 3:54:51 PM PST
W.H. says:
SB,

I don't think GP's should prescribe anti-depressants either. I think they should be prescribed by psychiatrists and used under close supervision and in conjunction with therapy.

I do not have any statistics, just my own experience and that of the people in my outpatient group. Suicide attempts were what made most of us seek treatment in the first place.

As I said, depressed people were committing suicide long before the current crop of anti-depressants ever existed.

It took forever to find the right combination of drugs but once I did, the difference in my life was incredible. I could function, the voices were gone...it has been 14 years since I tried to kill myself and I can't imagine that I will ever try it again.

I take 5-HTP too, but only as a sleep aid.

I don't disagree with you or the OP that 5-HTP can be helpful. I know very well that it can be. I disagree with his calling anti-depressants "dangerous" and "useless."

We should all be allowed to choose the type of treatment that works best for us without losing our jobs for it. The person I wrote about before is someone I love very much and it hurts to see him feeling so bad for so long.

You had the chance to try anti-depressants and decide for yourself whether you wanted to continue or to try something else. He doesn't believe he can do the same thing and it seems very unfair. He seems so boxed in...

Be that as it may, I'm glad you're feeling well, too.

Posted on Jan 22, 2012 12:50:24 PM PST
Kerstin John says:
Having been around physicians (and dating one) I can say that the consensus is pretty much that anti-depressants have side effects (nausea, fatigue, weight gain) that are the same as or worse than the depressive symptoms that they purport to treat, not to mention they are expensive and have a lot of inactive ingredients that are hard to metabolize. More efficacious is regular exercise, preferably outdoors, as well as good nutritious food. Meat products have stress hormones that can lead to depression (cortisol, catecholamines) so it is best to choose plant-based foods. I learned this from the excellent nutrition book The Paradigm Diet

Posted on Jan 22, 2012 1:50:19 PM PST
They are definitely over prescribed....mainly because so many Doctors get "incentives " from pharmaceutical companies (the LEGAL drug pushers)

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 22, 2012 3:01:38 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 22, 2012 4:25:24 PM PST
W.H. says:
KJ,

If the side effects of anti-depressants were as bad as the symptoms of depression, no one would waste their time or money on them. I know I wouldn't.

For me, depression was far worse than nausea, fatigue or weight gain. My mind and my soul felt like they were dying a slow and agonizing death. I felt like the people I loved and who had always loved me back would be better off without me. I wanted out of the pain.

I tried to kill myself and I thought I was doing the right thing. For myself and for all concerned.

I was already exercising and eating well when I got sick. I needed more than that to get well. I needed medication, therapy and a lot of emotional support.

Again: would anyone waste their time or money on medication if all one needed to do to get well was to exercise and eat right?

Drugs aren't the answer for everyone, but it bothers me when people make it seem like mental illness is something that can be easily dealt with by simply exercising common sense.

People who are clinically depressed or suffering from other mental problems usually spend enormous amounts of time, energy and money trying to get well. Different kinds of drugs, therapies, exercise, special diets, meditation...we do all we can. We're not stupid and we're not lazy.

Depression is a big deal. People lose their lives to it. I almost lost mine more than once and I'm not the only one.

I don't want to make things sound hopeless--they're not. But if clinical depression were something we could easily fight or just shrug off life would be simple and we'd all be just fine, wouldn't we?

Some of the things I've read here are beyond ignorant. They are downright insulting and they have begun to bother me. I wanted to be helpful by sharing my experience and I had hoped to learn new things from other people who've had different experinces with different treatments but it seems we have degenerated to the point of acting like depressed people are simpletons and all for what? To plug one book after another?

I think I have said all I have to say and it is just time for me to leave now. Thank you to all the people who have made sincere contributions to this discussion.

Posted on Jan 22, 2012 3:52:10 PM PST
Amazon Fiend says:
5-HTP is worth trying. It made me have a lot of dreams, and I felt less gloomy.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 22, 2012 4:34:20 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 22, 2012 4:57:23 PM PST
W.H. says:
KJ,

I see you've plugged "The Paradigm Diet" and provided links to it all over the Health forum: on this thread, on the "What would (you) do if there were no hospitals?" thread, and on the "Can an alcoholic learn to drink moderately?" thread.

There are probably more posts up than that, but I don't have time to read the entire Health forum.

All of the posts went up today. You've been very busy.

A book that can help people deal with alcoholism, depression and a theoretical lack of hospitals? It sounds fantastic. I'll be sure to order a copy.

I feel quite silly for having taken your post seriously and gotten upset. You're just a troll...but I took the bait.

I think I need to get more sleep...I should have picked up on the tone and caught on a bit faster.

I apologize to everyone who found my last post silly and self-pitying. As I said, I obviously need to get more sleep!

Take care, everyone.

Posted on Jan 22, 2012 5:16:04 PM PST
W.H.
You weren't out of line.

You & I have both seen people with either sound scientific (chemistry, neurobiology, neuropharmacology) or severe, life destroying mental illnesses (and occasionally people who are both) be denigrated and, indeed, treated disgustingly for doing nothing other than sharing knowledge or experiences.

We have indeed seen comments that go "beyond ignorant."
And a good number that "are downright insulting". Ugly. Dismissive. Even cruel & hateful.

It's not strange to occasionally feel them "begin to bother you."
They are invalidating your experience and, in a sense, your life.

It's normal.
I know what you've been through, you know what I've been through, and I hope we both know the ways - either academic, or experiential, or both - that we are qualified to at least contribute to the discussion. You've demonstrated consistent grace under fire - more than I have, I feel.

I hope some of the things we've contributed have helped some, and that we haven't inadvertently offended others.

@ Amazon Fiend
5-HTP as a precursor to serotonin - or at least a very specific precursor to a very specific part of the serotonergic system - is generally safe, although what you're taking is unregulated & therefore you have no way of knowing how much of it is bioavailable. It isn't surprising it caused you to remember many dreams - a similar effect is seen with most antidepressants. Unfortunately it wears off eventually.

It is, however, extremely dangerous for anyone already taking an SSRI, an SSNRI, or even medications that are precursors to THESE medications (eg. Librax) to take 5-HTP.
Melatonin is an extremely safe way to help reset a disturbed circadian rhythm but even so, you'd want to know how to take it & how much, & whether you're looking to produce a phase delay or a phase advance.

Having said that, it can also cause extreme headaches & other side-effects.

P.S. I love the title of the group, "People love it when you agree with them".
Is that a question? Because it would seem that the obvious answer would be "yes, they generally do."

Then again, people also love to argue about things, and many people are ideologically rigid enough to consider their opinion to be the only right one, and get extremely upset if others don't agree with them. I just find it an odd title for a discussion. Maybe *I* am the one who needs to get some sleep!

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 22, 2012 5:52:18 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 22, 2012 7:46:07 PM PST
W.H. says:
FV,

Thank you, but I DO feel silly. KJ is such an obvious troll. She's been plugging that book all over the Health forum all day but I hadn't noticed her other posts before I replied to the one she posted on this thread.

The link KJ provided should have tipped me off right away. Someone pulled this thread out of retirement last week to promote a book and his post got got deleted...then another guy did the same thing a few days later and his post got deleted...and both of them had provided links, just like KJ.

I don't know whether or not KJ's posts will stay up, but this thread is just catnip to charlatans.

They think depressed people are desperate enought to try/buy anything and sometimes they're right. When I was younger I bought all kinds of ridiculous books, supplements and other paraphanalia...even glorified laxatives and diuretics that were supposed to flush out the "toxins" that were allegedly making me sick.

It makes me so angry to remember it. I was a bright girl with common sense but my desperation overrode that sense. I'm not really upset about having wasted the money but each time my hopes were dashed was just crushing.

Now I sound self-pitying again but you know what? I don't care! I want to be strong but maybe I've racked up a few points of self-pity and if I have, I'm spending them tonight.

I just hate it when people prey on the people they perceive to be weak. I'm not weak and it won't work.

Thank you for being so nice and for letting me vent. I hope all is well with you tonight and one last thing: you're right. "People love it when you agree with them" IS a rather odd discussion thread (because it seems so obvious) but people need to keep coming up with new ones.

Goodnight.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 22, 2012 5:53:02 PM PST
Andrea says:
Watch a movie called Food Matters, it will help you. It sounds like you may have many nutritional deficiencies which can cause all of your symptoms. Your Doctor most likely is not aware of them. Search Raw food info on the internet, this will also help.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 22, 2012 5:56:30 PM PST
Andrea says:
Watch a movie called Food Matters, it will help you. It sounds like you may have many nutritional deficiencies which can cause all of your symptoms. Your Doctor most likely is not aware of them. Search Raw food info on the internet, this will also help. Taking mind altering medications will only do more harm, they alter the chemicals in the brain, this makes things worse.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 22, 2012 6:04:29 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 22, 2012 6:07:22 PM PST
W.H. says:
Andrea,

I am well-aware that my medication is altering the chemicals in my brain--that's how it works. It makes things better for me, not worse. And I am extremely allergic to almost all raw fruits and vegetables. If I cook them, I'm fine but if I don't they make my throat and tongue swell up and it gets hard for me to breathe.

And no, my medication did not cause this allergy. I've had it since I was a child.

Thanks anyway.

Goodnight.

Posted on Jan 23, 2012 12:14:56 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 23, 2012 12:28:53 PM PST
Jinglebts says:
I could not live without SSRIs -- I have both genetic and situational depression. And perhaps the reason for suicide is that when one is really sunk, one hasn't the mental strength. I never want to be depressed again. Never.

To WH: "Depression is a big deal. People lose their lives to it. I almost lost mine more than once and I'm not the only one." I nearly lost my life to it too. If talk therapy works for you, fine. It didn't work for me, so I take an SSRI. Perhaps if antidepressants has been around in the '50s, my dad wouldn't have been a drunk and died of liver disease. But in the past, depression was a sign of weakness. Thankfully it isn't now, altho' politicians will never admit to having "a mental illness".

And no, it has no side effects for me. Even if it did, it would depend on the side effect. I once took 5HTP and after a week I smelled like sulfur (rotten eggs, anyone?). So I went back to my good old SSRI.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 23, 2012 12:35:52 PM PST
Jinglebts says:
I take melatonin as a sleep aid. Works like a charm!

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 23, 2012 1:22:08 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 23, 2012 2:16:16 PM PST
W.H. says:
AS,

The quote you attribute to me is correct, but my treament includes both medication AND talk therapy. Talk therapy did not work for me until my doctor and I found the right medication because I was hearing voices.

I'm one of the most pro-medication people who has ever posted on this thread, so what's with the attititude?

I'm glad you're happy with your medication. I'm happy with mine. And thank you ever so much for being "fine" with my therapy.

I think you have blended my post together with KJ's in your mind. She is the one who wrote that the side effects of SSRIs are as bad as the symptoms of depression, if not worse.

I would never, ever say anything that ignorant.

In an earlier post, I also made it clear that natural supplements can cause severe side effects, just like synthetic drugs. I talked about how sick I got from taking St. John's Wort...is any of this ringing a bell?

I don't know what your problem with me is, but have a nice day.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 23, 2012 3:20:13 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 23, 2012 3:22:05 PM PST
Jinglebts says:
WH, I have no problem. In fact, I completely agree with you. Perhaps it didn't sound like that, and I apologize. I know that sometimes side effects (KJ) can very bad, but I repeat, I could not live w/o my paxil and never want to -- it would be worse than death. No wonder Churchill called it "the black dog" -- for me it seems much worse. But I have a friend who was incapacitated by effexor, as was I -- but out of sheer desperation I tried another, and another, until I found one that worked for me. I'm extremely pro-medication. I can't function without it. Once, I ended up in ER sobbing. Once I tried to kill myself.

There was a panel on a well respected program here a couple of years ago about depression and SSRIs; not one of the psychiatrists had been depressed, hence they pointed out how dangerous these drugs are. The only psychologist in the group had been depressed and guess what -- he was pro-drug, and I wonder why.

I completely disagree with KJ. Perhaps some physician propaganda rubbed off on her, perhaps she's an ignoramus. But I repeat, I don't have a problem with you, I completely agree with what you say, and again, I'm sorry that I gave the wrong impression.

I found "The Noonday Demon: An Atlas of Depression" by Andrew Solomon a good read. He heard voices, was afraid of his lamb chops, and if his father hadn't tended to him while he was out of hospital and on a combination of drugs that were less than effective, by his own admission he'd be dead now. I despise anyone as judgemental as KJ. She sounds smug.

I'll repeat the first para of my post: "I could not live without SSRIs -- I have both genetic and situational depression. And perhaps the reason for suicide is that when one is really sunk, one hasn't the mental strength. I never want to be depressed again. Never."

And if I have attitude -- I didn't mean it to come across that way.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 23, 2012 5:40:23 PM PST
W.H. says:
AS,

Okay. I'm sorry. It's been a bad day and I overreacted.

In reply to an earlier post on Jan 23, 2012 5:53:16 PM PST
Jinglebts says:
Thanks!

Posted on Nov 25, 2012 6:40:59 PM PST
I also use 5htp. Good to sleep.
If I may I would like to use an analogy.
It is of physical pain instead of depression.
Relationships, jobs and life in general are like having to walk along a wall blindfolded. You will inevitably fall off at times. That pain is important. It reminds you not to do it again.
But if a drug company aggressively markets a way to make walking along the wall easier you would obviously want to try it. The cure is morphine. Now when you fall off it does not hurt.
However you are injuring yourself each time. Eventually the pain is unbearable without the morphine. You are also leading your blindfolded children down and pretty soon they need morphine from their falls.
In reality it is no cure at all. In fact it is ruining your body.
Just like this antidepressants are taking away the pain when a relationship ends or you are fired for example. You never realise the deep damage it has evolved to cause in order to raise young successfully. This is the true reason the west is full of broken families and unemployment. We are all numb and even if you are not taking it you are being lead off the wall by so many people who are it takes the patience of a Saint to resist taking it yourself. The domino effect.

What do you say?

Posted on Nov 26, 2012 5:25:04 PM PST
[Deleted by the author on Nov 26, 2012 5:26:46 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 8:52:14 PM PST
OldAmazonian says:
Mr P, you think aspirin is pernicious too because that pain it relieves is important?
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Discussion in:  Health forum
Participants:  122
Total posts:  539
Initial post:  Apr 19, 2009
Latest post:  Dec 1, 2012

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