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Yesterday I was told not to spank my child anymore because its considered sexual abuse.

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Posted on May 2, 2012 10:04:59 AM PDT
John Paris says:
good point -- human development really is complicated and intricate -- all the more reason why this kind of conversation is worthwhile -- it is when we cease to be curious, to understand better, to learn what we don't know about something -- so where is the curiosity that says, "I want to be the best parent I can be and I want the very best for my child, so I will look at the research with an open mind and consider what I may not yet understand or have been exposed to?"

In reply to an earlier post on May 2, 2012 10:18:57 AM PDT

When it comes to parenting, I always try to avoid the "all or none" and the "Place blame here" games.

An analogy that I like to use is the old homosexual debate in the armed forces. One of the common complaints was the use of common bathrooms and communal showers. My response was, "How much time do soldiers spend in the showers as opposed to all other activities?"

Also, think about the other discussions you have read in the health forums. Read one of the threads dealing with cancer.

In the years that I have read these boards, I have seen everything from wheat to vaccines to iodine deficiency squarely blamed for cancer.

The real answer is everyone is right and everyone is wrong.

Health and parenting do not revolve around eating the occasional hamburger or giving an occasional spanking. Raisng a child is the sum of its parts. Ultimately, it is what you spend the MOST time doing is wjhat maeks the difference....not what you do in the worst moments.

In reply to an earlier post on May 2, 2012 12:38:58 PM PDT
Two points

1) If spanking were as effective as the thread-started believes, why is their 8 year old child running away in a crowded public space? This sort of behavior is to be expected from a young child (2-6 year olds), but an 8 year old should know better

2) Becky accurately posted "If the behavior and the consequence are tied closely enough in time (to be most effective, no more than 2 to 6 seconds from the time of the behavior), the consequence can effect the behavior, even if the child doesn't understand the connection." I'd like to point out that the behavior that immediately preceded the spanking was the child *returning* to the parent. If the theory of Operant Conditioning is to be believed (and it is), this parent punished their child for returning, not running away.

In reply to an earlier post on May 2, 2012 12:42:12 PM PDT
Daisy says:
"If the theory of Operant Conditioning is to be believed (and it is), this parent punished their child for returning, not running away."

Extremely pertinent point.

In reply to an earlier post on May 2, 2012 10:21:27 PM PDT
Becky says:
The problem is, there are a lot of "theys". "They" said the world was flat. "They" said certain behaviors would cause hairy palms. "They" said rats spontaneously generated out of piles of dirty rags.
If you attribute everything you disagree with to some unknown and ever wrong "they", as if all of those "theys" are the same people, you are ignoring the fact that in many aspects, many of those people will disagree. In fact there are many "theys" who have provided evidence against spanking, who have also consistently supported toilet training. This does not mean that those people were all right or all wrong.
If there is some "they" who is always wrong, it would make sense to quickly dismiss their ideas. If this is the case, providing their name would give credibility to your argument.
However, if this is not the case, instead of dismissing an argument because you've attributed it to some unknown person you disagree with on some other issue, it may be wiser to consider the argument based on the evidence supporting or refuting the validity of the argument.
The evidence supporting the risks of spanking are beyond strong. They don't prove who will develop which mental disorder, but they do show an increased risk. To decide that because you are in favor of spanking, you will simply attribute the evidence to some undesirable "they", and use that as an excuse to ignore the evidence is, in my opinion, folly.

In reply to an earlier post on May 3, 2012 12:37:25 AM PDT
That's correct, I think. Child development experts these days argue that spanking a child (though not necessarily sexual abuse) is demeaning to the child, teaches that violence is the solution to many problems, and confuses the child who begins to associate love with pain. There are better ways to help a child learn what parents want. Spanking just shows the inability of the parent to do anything better than hurting the child.

Posted on May 3, 2012 1:42:16 AM PDT
What a LOAD. Every kid my age that I know got spanked as a kid. All of us turned out FINE. I am beyond wanting to puke every time I read about how spanking is ineffective and abusive, yada, yada, yada. That's a load of BS. Time out is also crap. My friend's kid got "time out" every time he misbehaved and was like Damien from "The Omen". Spanking works better than idle threats of "time out". Time out? Mostly, time out is "go to your room". Right. Where you have computers, t.v.'s, etc---it's like sending them to Disneyland. Spanking doesn't "traumatize" them unless you beat the crap out of them; a swat on the ass once in a while isn't going to hurt. No one I know turned out to be serial killers on account of spankings. Everyone is so damned afraid of disciplining their brats--it's why kids have no respect for adults any more. They're allowed to throw tantrums because, God forbid, anyone disciplines them in public in front of other people. Tough. And all the "spanking escalates into abuse" is crapt too. Most of the time that isn't the case. Everyone is scared of their own kids and idiots who feel that every problem is solved with "time out" are delusional. I know, because the majority of people I know who employ "time out" have kids that are brats. Spanking isn't sexual abuse, and as long as you're not beating the hell out of the kid, it's not any other kind of abuse, either. I got spanked maybe 2 - 3 times---ever. It's because I learned after a few spankings that I wasn't supposed to be doing certain things. Worked fine, and I'm not "emotionally scarred". Bottom line: Don't misbehave and you won't get smacked. It's THAT SIMPLE PEOPLE. Time out is the reason this society is as f'd up as it is now--no one can discipline their kids because they're scared of them and of CPS coming to their door because some of what some idiot might say, just because they DARED to discipline their kid in public with a swat on the ass. BIG DEAL.

In reply to an earlier post on May 3, 2012 4:41:43 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 3, 2012 4:43:09 AM PDT
"you will simply attribute the evidence to some undesirable "they", and use that as an excuse to ignore the evidence is, in my opinion, folly."


Perhaps if you were near as clever as you think you are, you might have actually understood my post (and the one that followed) as to why I use the collective "they". If you are a parent (which you don't actually seem to be) you know that there are always collectives that will pinpoint just about any aspect of childrearing and assign great importance to it and threaten that if it is not handled correctly...your children will be 'scarred' for life.

You obviously did not understand that this is what my reference tio toilet training meant....not whether to do it or not. But several decades back, there was a collective school of thought that warned toilet training was "the" important aspect to child development and that any missteps in this endeavor could result in disaster for your child.

And if you actually read the posts, where do I say that spanking is okay? Where do I admonish people to "ignore evidence"?

What I actually DO say is that parents need to worry less about what they do in individual moments and look at parenting as the sum of those moments.

BTW Keep telling actual parents how to do their job BEFORE you have kids of your own, because it is the last time you will have all the answers.

In reply to an earlier post on May 3, 2012 5:20:32 AM PDT
Daisy says:
RobertsLadyDove, I can't help but notice how angry you sound. Your hostile name calling (and general angst) sounds so casual that I get the impression you're chronically angry. Which belies your claim that "All of us turned out FINE."

In reply to an earlier post on May 3, 2012 5:22:34 AM PDT
Daisy says:
Michael W. Becky is certainly capable of answering the points you bring up ... but I can tell you that she is, in fact, a mother. And she's referred to this status several times.

In reply to an earlier post on May 3, 2012 5:45:21 AM PDT
K.J. says:
I was reading through several responses and what I found for the most part (not all) were opinions on spanking in general. Popping your child on the bottom is NOT sexual abuse and to make a general statement to that like the lady in the mall was ludicrous. There are too many parents that don't discipline their children and those that do with a spank to the bottom only to have some stranger add their two cents in. She's also the same person that would want to know where a parent was when a kid starts acting up. You just can't win. I get why child abuse is such a hot topic. We need to protect our children and things were left unchecked for too long but we have now we have gone from one end of the spectrum to the other. In the case of this mother, it was immediate punishment for such a potential opening for a predator. It's a parent's job to stress the importance of safety to their children.

In reply to an earlier post on May 3, 2012 6:15:05 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 3, 2012 6:16:04 AM PDT
"I can tell you that she is, in fact, a mother. And she's referred to this status several times."

Okay, whatever! She always sounded more like a psych student than a parent, but fine. If she is capable of answering my points, why didn't she?

I never said spanking is great, I never condemned nor admonished others to do it or not do it. I merely cautioned people that there are always collective wisdoms that want to place exclusive importance on individual issues.

Take an issue like breast feeding. All things being equal, a mother should probably breastfeed if at all possible. However, some women can't, won't or find it logistically impossible....and that it is that person's right to do whatever THEY decide.

However, you will find groups out there that are nursing nazis! And will literally bully, threaten and generally tell you what a bad parent you are not doing it.

Just like there was once a conventional wisdom that formula was superior to mother's milk and that you were a bad parent for NOT giving a child formula.

And ALL of these people could show you "scientific evidence" and such "proving" they were correct! When in the end, NONE of them were.

My point in all this is that parents should stop worrying and fretting over minutia and get on with the job.

In reply to an earlier post on May 3, 2012 7:29:17 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 3, 2012 7:57:09 AM PDT
Becky says:
I do understand your use of a collective "they" and what I'm pointing out is that you are using it as an excuse to not consider arguments you don't want to hear.

Here is what you said that implied refusal to consider arguments against spanking "You can say "the best evidence we have today shows that hitting children is very risky behavior." They told us the same garbage about toilet training years ago."

Parenting is certainly the sum of moments. Some moments have a more powerful impact that others. When people spank, they are probably attempting to have a powerful impact. The arguments against spanking are in general that they do succeed in having a powerful impact, but that sometimes there are undesired impacts of spanking.

As for waiting until I have kids of my own, that's simply another case of basing your decisions on assumptions rather than considering that facts may be different from what you want to believe. Btw, it is possible to study psychology and have children. Most of the psychologists I know are parents.

In reply to an earlier post on May 3, 2012 8:26:26 AM PDT
I never said or implied that I condone/condem spanking. Nor have I dismissed any information about it simply because I "do not like it".

What I "dismiss" are the camps that put undue or unfair emphasis on it. I have said this several times, yet you keep coming back to "I dismiss things I don't agree with".

I have read and writtten on multiple threads on this topic on these forums. Rabid people on both sides.

At the end of the day, there is uaually a better way to deal with an issue than spanking. Is a normal spanking going to ruin the kid? Doubtful.

People want to assign way too much value to an ordinary swat on the butt.

As for you, I will delay my opinion of you until I see you in a real world scenario. When, as a sleep-deprived young mother with perhaps several react to the situation of what to do when one of them has their SECOND feces painting party in their room. I anxiously await while you sit down in a feces-strewn and stinking room while you and the kid calmly discuss the consequences based on hypothesized function of the behavior and behavioral momentum.

Posted on May 3, 2012 8:40:30 AM PDT
As a teacher I deal with the results of the "non-spanker" parenting approach all day. Disrespect, lack of self-control, little self-control. You did the right thing in spanking your child. The so-called "experts" don't know what they're talking about. Spanking, when done "right" (the child understanding the reasons why and the ultimate cause of his behavior) is unfortunately an extremely underutilized parenting tool. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise unless you see how they parent.

In reply to an earlier post on May 3, 2012 8:51:50 AM PDT
C. B. Hanna says:
Should have told her sweetly "ok Mam,I'll take your advice.Can i have your address so that 10 years from now,when He has learned not to respect any authority ,I can point Him in the direction of your house when He's debating which one to Rob?"

In reply to an earlier post on May 3, 2012 9:00:14 AM PDT
John Paris says:
Is it possible there is valuable insight here? From Dr. Sears:

There is a classic story about the mother who believed in spanking as a necessary part of discipline until one day she observed her three- year-old daughter hitting her one-year-old son. When confronted, her daughter said, "I'm just playing mommy." This mother never spanked another child.Children love to imitate, especially people whom they love and respect. They perceive that it's okay for them to do whatever you do. Parents, remember, you are bringing up someone else's mother or father, and wife or husband. The same discipline techniques you employ with your children are the ones they are most likely to carry on in their own parenting. The family is a training camp for teaching children how to handle conflicts. Studies show that children from spanking families are more likely to use aggression to handle conflicts when they become adults.

Spanking demonstrates that it's all right for people to hit people, and especially for big people to hit little people, and stronger people to hit weaker people. Children learn that when you have a problem you solve it with a good swat. A child whose behavior is controlled by spanking is likely to carry on this mode of interaction into other relationships with siblings and peers, and eventually a spouse and offspring.

The child's self-image begins with how he perceives that others - especially his parents - perceive him Even in the most loving homes, spanking gives a confusing message, especially to a child too young to understand the reason for the whack. Parents spend a lot of time building up their baby or child's sense of being valued, helping the child feel "good." Then the child breaks a glass, you spank, and he feels, "I must be bad."
Even a guilt-relieving hug from a parent after a spank doesn't remove the sting. The child is likely to feel the hit, inside and out, long after the hug. Most children put in this situation will hug to ask for mercy. "If I hug him, daddy will stop hitting me." When spanking is repeated over and over, one message is driven home to the child, "You are weak and defenseless."

Parents who spank-control or otherwise abusively punish their children often feel devalued themselves because deep down they don't feel right about their way of discipline. Often they spank (or yell) in desperation because they don't know what else to do, but afterward feel more powerless when they find it doesn't work. As one mother who dropped spanking from her correction list put it, "I won the battle, but lost the war. My child now fears me, and I feel I've lost something precious."
Spanking also devalues the role of a parent. Being an authority figure means you are trusted and respected, but not feared. Lasting authority cannot be based on fear. Parents or other caregivers who repeatedly use spanking to control children enter into a lose-lose situation. Not only does the child lose respect for the parent, but the parents also lose out because they develop a spanking mindset and have fewer alternatives to spanking. The parent has fewer preplanned, experience-tested strategies to divert potential behavior, so the child misbehaves more, which calls for more spanking. This child is not being taught to develop inner control.

Punishment escalates. Once you begin punishing a child "a little bit," where do you stop? A toddler reaches for a forbidden glass. You tap the hand as a reminder not to touch. He reaches again, you swat the hand. After withdrawing his hand briefly, he once again grabs grandmother's valuable vase. You hit the hand harder. You've begun a game no one can win. The issue then becomes who's stronger-your child's will or your hand-not the problem of touching the vase. What do you do now? Hit harder and harder until the child's hand is so sore he can't possibly continue to "disobey?" The danger of beginning corporal punishment in the first place is that you may feel you have to bring out bigger guns: your hand becomes a fist, the switch becomes a belt, the folded newspaper becomes a wooden spoon, and now what began as seemingly innocent escalates into child abuse. Punishment sets the stage for child abuse. Parents who are programmed to punish set themselves up for punishing harder, mainly because they have not learned alternatives and click immediately into the punishment mode when their child misbehaves.

Many times we have heard parents say, "The more we spank the more he misbehaves." Spanking makes a child's behavior worse, not better. Here's why. Remember the basis for promoting desirable behavior: The child who feels right acts right. Spanking undermines this principle. A child who is hit feels wrong inside and this shows up in his behavior. The more he misbehaves, the more he gets spanked and the worse he feels. The cycle continues. We want the child to know that he did wrong, and to feel remorse, but to still believe that he is a person who has value.
The Cycle of Misbehavior

One of the goals of disciplinary action is to stop the misbehavior immediately, and spanking may do that. It is more important to create the conviction within the child that he doesn't want to repeat the misbehavior (i.e, internal rather than external control). One of the reasons for the ineffectiveness of spanking in creating internal controls is that during and immediately after the spanking, the child is so preoccupied with the perceived injustice of the physical punishment (or maybe the degree of it he's getting) that he "forgets" the reason for which he was spanked. Sitting down with him and talking after the spanking to be sure he's aware of what he did can be done just as well (if not better) without the spanking part. Alternatives to spanking can be much more thought-and-conscience-provoking for a child, but they may take more time and energy from the parent. This brings up a main reason why some parents lean toward spanking-it's easier.

Children often perceive punishment as unfair. They are more likely to rebel against corporal punishment than against other disciplinary techniques. Children do not think rationally like adults, but they do have an innate sense of fairness-though their standards are not the same as adults. This can prevent punishment from working as you hoped it would and can contribute to an angry child. Oftentimes, the sense of unfairness escalates to a feeling of humiliation. When punishment humiliates children they either rebel or withdraw. While spanking may appear to make the child afraid to repeat the misbehavior, it is more likely to make the child fear the spanker. In our experience, and that of many who have thoroughly researched corporal punishment, children whose behaviors are spank-controlled throughout infancy and childhood may appear outwardly compliant, but inside they are seething with anger. They feel that their personhood has been violated, and they detach themselves from a world they perceive has been unfair to them. They find it difficult to trust, becoming insensitive to a world that has been insensitive to them.

Parents who examine their feelings after spanking often realize that all they have accomplished is to relieve themselves of anger. This impulsive release of anger often becomes addicting-perpetuating a cycle of ineffective discipline. We have found that the best way to prevent ourselves from acting on the impulse to spank is to instill in ourselves two convictions: 1. That we will not spank our children. 2. That we will discipline them. Since we have decided that spanking is not an option, we must seek out better alternatives.

A child's memories of being spanked can scar otherwise joyful scenes of growing up. People are more likely to recall traumatic events than pleasant ones. I grew up in a very nurturing home, but I was occasionally and "deservedly" spanked. I vividly remember the willow branch scenes. After my wrongdoing my grandfather would send me to my room and tell me I was going to receive a spanking. I remember looking out the window, seeing him walk across the lawn and take a willow branch from the tree and come back to my room and spank me across the back of my thighs with the branch. The willow branch seemed to be an effective spanking tool because it stung and made an impression upon me- physically and mentally. Although I remember growing up in a loving home, I don't remember specific happy scenes with nearly as much detail as I remember the spanking scenes. I have always thought that one of our goals as parents is to fill our children's memory bank with hundreds, perhaps thousands, of pleasant scenes. It's amazing how the unpleasant memories of spankings can block out those positive memories.

ABUSIVE HITTING HAS BAD LONG-TERM EFFECTS Research has shown that spanking may leave scars deeper and more lasting than a fleeting redness of the bottom. Here is a summary of the research on the long-term effects of corporal punishment:

In a prospective study spanning nineteen years, researchers found that children who were raised in homes with a lot of corporal punishment, turned out to be more antisocial and egocentric, and that physical violence became the accepted norm for these children when they became teenagers and adults. College students showed more psychological disturbances if they grew up in a home with less praise, more scolding, more corporal punishment, and more verbal abuse.
A survey of 679 college students showed that those who recall being spanked as children accepted spanking as a way of discipline and intended to spank their own children. Students who were not spanked as children were significantly less accepting of the practice than those who were spanked. The spanked students also reported remembering that their parents were angry during the spanking; they remembered both the spanking and the attitude with which it was administered.

Spanking seems to have the most negative long-term effects when it replaces positive communication with the child. Spanking had less damaging long-term effects if given in a loving home and nurturing environment.

A study of the effects of physical punishment on children's later aggressive behavior showed that the more frequently a child was given physical punishment, the more likely it was that he would behave aggressively toward other family members and peers. Spanking caused less aggression if it was done in an overall nurturing environment and the child was always given a rational explanation of why the spanking occurred.

A study to determine whether hand slapping had any long-term effects showed that toddlers who were punished with a light slap on the hand showed delayed exploratory development seven months later.

Adults who received a lot of physical punishment as teenagers had a rate of spouse-beating that was four times greater than those whose parents did not hit them.

Husbands who grew up in severely violent homes are six times more likely to beat their wives than men raised in non-violent homes.

More than 1 out of 4 parents who had grown up in a violent home were violent enough to risk seriously injuring their child.
Studies of prison populations show that most violent criminals grew up in a violent home environment.
The life history of notorious, violent criminals, murderers, muggers, rapists, etc., are likely to show a history of excessive physical discipline in childhood. The evidence against spanking is overwhelming. Hundreds of studies all come to the same conclusions:

1. The more physical punishment a child receives, the more aggressive he or she will become.
2. The more children are spanked, the more likely they will be abusive toward their own children.
3. Spanking plants seeds for later violent behavior.4.Spanking doesn't work.

Many studies show the futility of spanking as a disciplinary technique, but none show its usefulness. In the past thirty years in pediatric practice, we have observed thousands of families who have tried spanking and found it doesn't work. Our general impression is that parents spank less as their experience increases. Spanking doesn't work for the child, for the parents, or for society. Spanking does not promote good behavior, it creates a distance between parent and child, and it contributes to a violent society. Parents who rely on punishment as their primary mode of discipline don't grow in their knowledge of their child. It keeps them from creating better alternatives, which would help them to know their child and build a better relationship. In the process of raising our own eight children, we have also concluded that spanking doesn't work. We found ourselves spanking less and less as our experience and the number of children increased. In our home, we have programmed ourselves against spanking and are committed to creating an attitude within our children, and an atmosphere within our home, that renders spanking unnecessary. Since spanking is not an option, we have been forced to come up with better alternatives. This has not only made us better parents, but in the long run we believe it has created more sensitive and well-behaved children.

Posted on May 3, 2012 9:37:16 AM PDT
S. Murphy says:
Umm....8 years old is pretty old to be spanked. Maybe use a different method?

Posted on May 3, 2012 9:38:46 AM PDT
S. Murphy says:
PS I agree 100% with the above poster. And yes, I do have a kid!

In reply to an earlier post on May 3, 2012 9:39:43 AM PDT
Amazing how ignorant some people choose to be in the face of school shootings and child suicides. Keep your eyes tightly shut, my friend...I don't think you could bear the sight of the real world.

In reply to an earlier post on May 3, 2012 9:47:07 AM PDT
1) Learn to spell and punctuate correctly so you can be a good learning example to your child.
2) Learn about the FACTS that hitting children does not make them better people.
3) Avoid commenting on subjects which you know nothing about, to save yourself from looking amazingly uneducated.

In reply to an earlier post on May 3, 2012 9:51:15 AM PDT
Daisy says:

You said, "I merely cautioned people that there are always collective wisdoms that want to place exclusive importance on individual issues." From my perspective, bringing such a caution to my attention (or to Becky's) is akin to carrying coals to Newcastle.

Speaking for myself, I simply don't endorse spanking as playing any part in effective parenting. Period. I also - and for the precise same purpose I don't endorse spanking - don't condemn those who do spank. One addresses misbehavior. One does not attack the person performing the behavior. Put another way, abjure the sin; love the sinner. Furthermore, I have no problem whatsoever w/people informing themselves about parenting rather than simply relying upon folk wisdom or re-enacting, for better or worse, familial patterns. Nor do I have any problems w/people seeking new ways and means of having a good marriage. Or, for that matter, seeking education on how to fly fish. Seeking to learn just about anything worthwhile is beneficial. On top of that, I have no problem whatsoever w/having informed opinions on any or all of these topics. Having an open mind and having well informed practices are not mutually exclusive endeavors.

Now I'll stand for Becky. In almost every single post that Becky has made, she has reiterated her belief - her practice - not to condemn any parent who spanks or in any other way violates the integrity of the child herself. At all times, she has recognized the importance of the context and intention that surrounds the parental decision to spank and has consistently acknowledged that there are various degrees of harm (from slight to grave) that occur when a child is corporally punished. Moreover, Becky has also addressed other forms of parental incursion into a child's well being. She has written that chronic verbal abuse can leave far more lasting damage than any impatient swat on a child's behind ever could. She has generously shared personal background that has helped inform her take on things. At no point has Becky said any parent was a "bad parent". In her posts she invites anyone who has a decided opinion favoring corporal punishment to look at evidence based research which gives a different view on corporal punishment than the punishment advocate has - and she's done so w/consistent respect for any parent's decision making process.

Given all of this, I don't see how you're getting that you need to stridently and fearfully caution her with (the self-evident, incidentally) observation that to place exclusive importance on any single parental action is contraindicated in the search for holistic meaning.

Returning to my view, given the impact of any physical assault on a developing child's well being, the issue of corporal punishment is hardly to be called minutia. And when you demean it as such, you unwittingly reveal your actual position on the subject with which you pretend neutrality. What you're doing when you hide your opinion on this subject is cowardly - not neutral.

In reply to an earlier post on May 3, 2012 9:51:43 AM PDT
[Deleted by Amazon on May 3, 2012 10:25:16 AM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on May 3, 2012 9:56:26 AM PDT
Marion D said "As a teacher I deal with the results of the "non-spanker" parenting approach all day. Disrespect, lack of self-control, little self-control."

Funny how you don't mention the lack of self-control exhibited by the EIGHT YEAR OLD who can't keep from running away from his mother. Maybe because that doesnt support your implication that spanking teaches self-control

And dont for one minute think you've fooled anyone into believing that you know which kids have never been spanked

In reply to an earlier post on May 3, 2012 10:09:34 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 3, 2012 10:12:46 AM PDT
"And when you demean it as such, you unwittingly reveal your actual position on the subject with which you pretend neutrality. What you're doing when you hide your opinion on this subject is cowardly - not neutral."

I do think a swat on the butt is minutia, especially when viewed in the scope of an ~18 year upbringing. It takes a few seconds and stings for a few seconds, and then you have time to think about whether the punishment was "worth" the behavior.....much like any other form of punishment.

If you want to start comparing it to beatings, whippings and other abuse....then it becomes something more than minutia. But we are not talking about those.

Of course, many on these forums have decided that a swat is the same thing as beating with a belt and will vehemently cliam that one equals the other....kinda of like those cowards you were talking about.
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