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Do kegel exercises work?


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Initial post: Jul 25, 2009 11:26:10 AM PDT
Vis a vis says:
I am interested in hearing from the married men that are beneficiaries of a woman faithful to a kegel routine? Can you tell the difference?

Posted on Jul 25, 2009 1:35:35 PM PDT
wapt says:
I am a woman and I can tell you an exact quote from my boyfriend the first time we were together. He said, "What you do with your muscles is amazing!" That was the first of many, many comments.

Posted on Jul 25, 2009 2:02:22 PM PDT
iluvs2fish says:
I too am a married woman and I will never forget what one of my lover's said to me in the middle of making love-he said and I quote: "Where did you learn to do that?" . It was said in response to my making use of a very well used muscle that had been strenghtened on a daily basis by Kegel's. I'm now 57 and VERY VERY thankful still, to be using kegel exercises. Not only do they increase pleasure for lovemaking but they are ESSENTIAL to our urinary continence as we get older. Don't EVER quit doing the exercises ladies! I do them while sitting at a stoplight or waiting in line at the post office or grocery store. Cmon guys-speak up and let this fellow know how much you appreciate a well toned muscle:-)

Posted on Jul 26, 2009 2:57:58 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 6, 2009 8:27:22 PM PDT
Ali says:
If someone eats properly and avoids direct poisoning---a rare lifestyle---one wouldn't need to do kegels to retain urinary continence into old age since one would simply keep the normal nerve innervation to those muscles. Yet otherwise, I vote both these posts as great. Even I was unaware of these dramatic effects. (I happen to be a man.)

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 26, 2009 3:20:24 PM PDT
[Deleted by Amazon on Nov 18, 2009 12:07:55 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 4, 2009 8:11:13 PM PDT
Hot hands says:
Ali,
I don't care how well one eats, after you have several children vaginally, Kegels are a savior....and Kegels are simply and excercise for a muslce...so your saying if I eat right I would never have to exercise to maintain proper muscle tone? Really? I think my husband is glad I do them.....I've had 4 kids, and I'm still tight, thank you Mr. Kegel....and I wish more men did Kegels too!

Posted on Aug 5, 2009 11:27:42 AM PDT
peseta says:
There should be no argument about Kegels. Excellent for postpartum continence , with fringe benefits like any exercise.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 5, 2009 11:48:41 AM PDT
Victoria says:
Perhaps being a male you don't understand the dynamics of pelvic relaxation in a female esp one who had children. From a female and physician standpoint Kegel exercises work well and eating properly etc will not affect the problems that occur from the above mentioned.
You need to be a bit better informed of female anatomy and changes of aging. PS-- let us know how you do at a mature/old age with an enlarged prostate and urinary retention.

Posted on Aug 5, 2009 12:09:38 PM PDT
Yshlia says:
You need to take what Ali says with a grain of salt. He basically believes in magic.

Don't tell him though! If he gets angry enough, he might attack you with negative thought energy!

Posted on Aug 5, 2009 11:46:26 PM PDT
J. Shaffer says:
as a guy i can have multiples, usually only 2 at a time but i had up to 4 before. Kegels kick ass

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 6, 2009 7:08:16 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 21, 2009 2:48:40 PM PDT
Ali says:
I'm unsure what you mean when you say eat right. I mean that if one eats biologically properly---not just politically correct---and avoids poisons, since these further damage nerves, then, yes, one need not do special exercises beyond regular biological activity to maintain normal urinary-muscle tone throughout life. For instance, every time you conclude urination you engage those kegeling muscles already, or at least most persons do.

There's a good reason that animals in the wild, and primitive-living people, haven't been known to much pee on themselves even in old age, and you don't see lions pumping weights to maintain their physiques. Nor is childbirth troublesome among these populations. The proper balance of fatty acids installs the correct balance of prostaglandins---which adjust dramatically approaching childbirth---to make the vaginal tissues extremely elastic and bounce back, the same way that healthy skin, with similar balance of fatty acids and prostaglandins, stretches on the belly without becoming scarred and flabby. These things don't occur just by chance.

My post really was not a personal assault on you or what you choose to do. To keep doing whatever you feel like doing, you don't have to convince everyone else that your own personal habits are the ultimate and only and final answer for every woman just to maintain adequate urinary continence into old age. I haven't tried to stop you from kegeling and eating what you yourself want to eat, if that's what you yourself want to do.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 6, 2009 7:10:58 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 21, 2009 2:50:07 PM PDT
Ali says:
Marcia L. Bisco, so I guess you don't use cell phones---since you don't believe in energy. I guess you believe in only the Transatlantic Cable, or the people who thought Nikola Tesla was crazy for trying to give us all free wireless communication 100 years ago. And I guess you believe that until women's orgasm hit the popular media, it didn't exist. And I guess you have no idea how an electrocardiograph or MRI works. Based on the evidence, it seems you have no idea how even eyesight works.

If it weren't for nerves carrying energy to the urinary muscles, those muscles would do nothing. But maybe since you can't see it---or since you don't realize that many of the minerals in solution and in tissues in the body are literally to transmit energy along nerves and such just as alkaline minerals in batteries power your radio and in fact transmitted energy through the Transatlantic Cable after all---you don't believe in it. [The Body Electric: Electromagnetism and the Foundation of Life]

Aside from that, you're transmitting enough of your own "negative energy"---which it seems you've put into yourself. Since I'm here to exchange answers about health and healing, I'll keep sharing those instead. I do admit, though, that I don't easily fold under simplistic campaigns designed to shame and intimidate people to stop speaking the information that they have.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 6, 2009 7:12:32 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 6, 2009 8:26:10 PM PDT
Ali says:
V. Chain, I think you're just not aware of what my message actually said, because you seem to be reading other things into it that I didn't even say or suggest. Maybe you could be better informed than using your education, in only one specialty within the medical trade, to try to shame and intimidate half-informed views onto others who call in truths you're unaware of.

Posted on Aug 6, 2009 8:03:36 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 19, 2009 12:23:43 PM PDT
Ali says:
About women saying that they'd like men to kegel, that could have some upside, yet it would usually bring some downside. Men's sexual function has evolved a demand on the man much different from the demand on the woman. Regardless of whatever else a man does during sex, the man's primary objective in sex is to hold back ejaculation---which usually at least for most men goes along with his orgasm---or else the woman, whose primary objective is to orgasm as quickly and often as possible, would scarcely be pleased. So the Add Water and Shake principle---deducing that what works wonders for women must double the wonders for women if only men do it too---doesn't really work when applied to men.

About men and kegels, it's sort of a backwards way of improving male sexual function. Most men suffer from compromised sexual function---and definitely could use improvements---yet improving it by kegeling induces more urge to ejaculate. Men's sexual health and function is a discussion that Western sciences are in the dark ages about. Western sciences are more aware even about women's sexual health and function.

The best information that I've found is Taoist understandings. [The Tao of Health, Sex, and Longevity---introductory discussion really great and, for many persons, potentially an astonishing breakthrough overall, as it was me, it being my first contact with the subject, and yet carrying a few confusions really minor versus the tremendous accuracies] To improve sexual function men can learn to apply the kegel muscle to block energy trying to travel the route that triggers either orgasmic or ejaculatory muscles, and thus prevent orgasm and ejaculation. Yet this is not at all the mechanism that gives a man endurance to continue intercourse, thrusting, yet without even approaching orgasm and ejaculation. Contracting the kegeling muscles to delay orgasm and ejaculation is more like trying to stop a train. That's how the muscles would be applied: when orgasm and ejaculation are felt coming, then a really powerful clench of the kegeling muscles, if those muscles are strong enough, can block and hold back ejaculation. It is many times tougher, however, to contract the kegeling muscles hard enough to actually block the ejaculation unless the man also takes a deep breath into the belly. Doing both---inhaling a deep belly breath and contracting the kegeling muscles hard---is extremely effective at braking the train.

What actually gives a man endurance, on the other hand, so that he can continue thrusting and experiencing expanding and intensifying sensory bliss without even approaching orgasm and ejaculation, is a different mechanism, though. There are muscles to contract that help that---yet they are not the kegeling muscles. Actually, kegeling during sex puts the man nearer to orgasming and ejaculating. And training the kegeling muscles trains a man's body to ejaculate more prematurely---and then, yes, need those same strong kegeling muscles to forcefully brake the train. Many men have poor ejaculation control before starting a kegeling regimen, and yet these men had usually already conditioned themselves to use the kegeling muscles too much, unaware, precisely to compensate for compromised sexual function and to increase sensitivity by getting closer to orgasm. They merely had not specifically trained the kegeling muscles hard enough to make them strong enough to then be consciously clenched powerfully to brake the train, too.

Most men often must kegel to some degree in order to orgasm when a woman is stimulating them manually or orally. Otherwise, unless the woman uses really intense stimulation, it could go on and on a mighty long time. Men just usually don't say, "Oh yeah, that thing you did along with my deciding to add some kegels made me go over the edge". Likewise, a man's specifically training the kegeling muscles conditions those muscles to react on reflex during the greater sensory intensity of sex---the situation that most men with premature ejaculation actually already face as to their kegeling muscles.

For men to keep effortless endurance, it takes activation of the parasympathetic nervous system, which is the rest-and-restoration branch of the nervous system, in order to keep dopamine---the neurotransmitter of motivation and reward seeking---from excessively converting into the fight-or-flight compounds noradrenalin and adrenalin. Also, the amount of flight-or-flight compounds that are in fact made must bind mostly to their beta-adrenergic receptors, increasing blood vessel dilation and increasing fuel combustion, instead of bind to their alpha-adrenergic receptors, which would have basically the opposite effect. For men, restricting the breathing triggers the sympathetic nervous system instead, which is the fight-or-flight branch of the nervous system, and permits dopamine's excess conversion into the flight-or-flight compounds, and then further encourages their binding to the alpha-receptors that constrict blood vessels. Men with waning sexual function clench the kegeling muscles and restrict the breathing in order to increase immediate pleasure---though this backfires. Despite a seemingly immediate increase in erection rigidity from contracting the kegeling muscles---which, being around the base of the penis, when they harden and clamp down can reduce venous outflow from this penis and thus raise the erection---and despite the restriction of breathing to induce dopamine's conversion to more flight-or-flight compounds and then put the person nearer to ejaculation, the net neurological and neurochemical ultimate effect is a weaker spontaneous erection amid less ejaculation control. And this is training the body to respond this way to later sexual stimulation.

In ideal male physiology that produces powerful and fully expanded and rigid and upright erection---which, for other reasons, whose discussion I won't go into here, actually causes the greatest ejaculation control---it is not tight or toned kegeling muscles, which are skeletal muscles, acting to produce the strength of erection. It is relaxed smooth muscle in the penile arteries that does this: when the smooth muscles in the arteries of the penis fully relax---triggered to do so by the parasympathetic branch of the nervous system along with binding of noradrenalin and adrenalin to their beta receptors---the tremendous relaxation of smooth muscle in the arteries of the penis allows a rush of blood into the penis. The expansion of the spongy tissue in the penis expands the fibrous sheath around the penis, called the tunica albuginea. When the tunica cannot much expand further, its tightness raises pressure in the penis, and the pressure clamps down on the veins in the penis. So the veins, which are there to carry blood back out the penis, have their outflow clamped by the internal pressure. Thereby, venous outflow becomes just a trickle. In this dynamic, great blood volume and pressure inside the penis are sustained until either the penile nerves run out of their neurotransmitter acetylcholine triggering the penile arteries to release their neurotrasmitters that relax the smooth muscle in the penile arteries to keep them dilated, or the arteries themselves just run low in these neurotransmitters like c-GMP and nitric oxide to keep themselves so relaxed and dilated, or instead the parasympathetic branch of the nervous system just stops sending the electrical signal to the penile nerve endings to trigger the great release of any of these neurotransmitters.

So it is actually RELAXATION of smooth muscle in arteries, which carry blood into the penis, that causes the powerful erection---if, that is, not only has the man maintained the health and flexibility of his arteries to expand, yet the man also has maintained the health of his veins, which carry blood out the penis, so that the veins do not literally leak and thus fail to hold the pressure. Venous leakage, along with hardening of arteries making arteries unable to much expand to increase blood flow---both processes being largely driven by systemic inflammation---is a central cause of weakening erection with age or declining health.

The muscles to contract to help increase local general circulation to increase available blood flow for shunting blood INTO the penis---and cue the body, I believe, to increase consumption of oxygen and thus more greatly activate the beta receptors---are the gluteal muscles, rather, the butt muscles. For men with an erection, specifically applying the kegeling muscles, which are comparatively small muscles at the root of the penis, merely can help offset one mere symptom of waning sexual health---excess venous outflow---by using simplistic skeletal muscular rigidity to clamp down further, at the base of the penis, on venous outflow. The penile partnership with gluteal muscles makes great evolutionary sense. The body is not nearly as stupid and backwards and counterproductive as the human frontal brain lobe, a much more recent adaptation, usually thinks the body is these days. The butt muscles are precisely the muscles that a male applies in order to thrust. Women might not know, yet I'll personally attest, not only to firsthand and consistent experience that supports everything else I say in this post about male sexual function, yet to announce the instinctive bodily and not merely mental urge to flex the butt muscles---and unconsciously perform the thrusting motion that inadvertently propels the penis forward---amid my having a noticeable erection. Along with healthy and thus flexible arteries that can greatly expand, with flexible spongy tissue in the penis to greatly expand, with a strong tunica albuginea to reach its limit and stay tight, and with healthy veins that do not leak blood out the penis, this flexing of the butt muscles along with really deep belly breathing to consume maximal oxygen, all maximizes the erection and activates the proper nervous function to endure even while feeling expanding and intensifying bliss.

My personal speculation is that it's oxygen consumption that greatly determines whether the fight-or-flight compounds bind to the alpha-adrenergic receptors, which cause artery constriction (soft or weak erection), or rather to the beta-adrenergic receptors, what cause blood vessel dilation (rigid upward erection). Besides my personal experience along with Taoist experts' indications, I take evidence of this in that the effects of binding to beta-andrenergic receptors are artery dilation, thereby applying greater total oxygen, as well fat burning, which unlike glucose burning requires oxygen. For a man, cultivating truly deep breathing would help his sexuality a lot more than a kegeling regimen. In fact, maintaining good breathing during sleep is alone enough to reduce visceral fat, probably the single best thing a man can do for all his health including erection as well as natural tone of kegeling muscles [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10449691]. It's not kegeling a lot that gives teen boys strong sexual function. And poor breathing during sleep, even regardless of visceral fat, is enough to cause systemic inflammation [http://www.chestjournal.org/content/135/4/950.abstract], the driving cause of blood vessel damage, thus weakening erection and nerve innervation, as well as of prostate trouble. The prostate is far more valuable to male sexual function than just being there---when a man loses his prostate, he's usually about impotent.

Kegeling is a nice exercise especially for women, though. Women have different sexual requirements and needs. It's a valuable exercise for women and offers benefits---benefits that I personally like---yes [Healing Love through the Tao: Cultivating Female Sexual Energy], although I myself have never had intercourse with a woman who particularly did a lot of kegels. Merely, it is not women's only answer in the whole world for keeping urinary continence into old age. That claim doesn't need to be regurgitated as if it's a woman's only option in the wide world merely to keep her own bladder control, and merely keep from pissing on herself in her golden years, thus enslaving her to the Mr Kegel (Dr Arnold Kegel).

About men's sexual health, Anytime...for as Long as You Want and Scientifically Guaranteed Male Multiple Orgasms and Ultimate Sex and The Hardness Factor are three revealing books for beginning to understand male sexual function, yet I wouldn't take their pharmaceutical and supplement advice, and I would instead use foods. I haven't read the last book, yet I'm familiar with the basic principles, and they are correct. If any woman here actually cares for men and their sex organs, then instead of ganging up on me just because I said that you don't all have to kegel your vaginas off just to be adequate and functioning women who don't pee on yourselves, you can listen sometimes---the same way that yourself want to be listened to.

Posted on Aug 7, 2009 6:56:49 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 21, 2009 2:43:38 PM PDT
Ali says:
I've greatly expanded the discussion in my above post---to explain, for women's understanding, normal and healthful and ideal function of erection. (Well, I don't mean what the man does with it---a matter for you to judge---but just how the erection happens and is maintained.)

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 7, 2009 9:07:02 AM PDT
Nerves do not carry anything except information.

To compare the nervous system to an electrical system is psuedo-science methodology. Nerve cells transmit information via chemicals and chemical receptors, not electricity.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 7, 2009 9:55:22 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 19, 2009 12:30:52 PM PDT
Ali says:
[quote of Wasson]
Nerves do not carry anything except information.

To compare the nervous system to an electrical system is psuedo-science methodology. Nerve cells transmit information via chemicals and chemical receptors, not electricity.
[end quote]

-

That is amazing that you so confidently cast such fundamental misunderstanding in order to suppress comprehension. Pacemakers and defibrillators work by transmitting electric energy and therefore telling the heart when, or reminding the heart to, contract its muscle.

What do you think triggers tissue to release the specific neurochemicals, which are the particular keys that fit particular locks of what desired doorway to unlock (what desired action to perform)? The triggering is done by energy transmitted along nerves that arrives at the nerve ending and triggers the release of those keys there. What do you think ions in the body---like potassium and sodium---transfer between compounds and cells? [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ions]

If it weren't for electricity in the body, what in the world do you think electrocardiographs, called EKG, with the electrodes over the heart, are measuring? What do you think the electrodes from your personal heart monitor, when you go jogging, that you bought from Amazon.com are measuring if not electric current from heart activity?

And if it were not for natural and innate electricity in the body tissues---since every electric current produces around it a corresponding magnetic field---what do you think magnetic resonance imaging, called MRI, detects?

But since you don't know how these work, it's really easy to keep you waiting around for the supposed medical saviors to save you only when their profit margin finds a way to apply a mere snippet of this scientific understanding. Meanwhile, you're stuck on Viagra (which works by relaxing smooth muscle in penile arteries and thus dilating them and not by causing kegeling muscles to contract), prostate irradiation (more energy being transferred into body tissues but instead to kill them), MUSE (which injects into the penis abundant prostalandins as would cause women's skin and vaginal tissue to stretch for pregnancy and parturition and then rebound undamaged), and treating penile veins with cauterization (burning the veins in order to stop their leakage of venous outflow from the penis). Meanwhile, if sales of those items or procedures---amid your own medical confusion leaving you otherwise helpless----aren't enough to save your sexual health and penis, tough luck. Then you can just say so long to your erection and potency, and reminisce on bygone glory days.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 7, 2009 10:36:35 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 7, 2009 11:13:47 AM PDT
I never said there was no electrical potential in the body, changes in cell membrane potential are indeed needed in a myriad of cell functions esp neurons. And the heart does indeed have an elecrtical signal....but I said the nervous system.

What I DID say is that there is no continuous electrical current running thru the nervous system. They teach that in biology 101. The nervous system functions by transmitting potential thru synapes via chemical neurotransmiters. Hence, no continous current.

I realize that you think you are smarter than anyone on the heath board and *think* you know everything...from corporal punishment to womens urinary tracts....you do not.

Thanks so much for the physics lesson, but an MRI does not measure an existing magnetic/electric field. It uses a powerful magnetic field top cause hydrogen atoms to to INDUCE a new spin to the hydrogen molecules. It does not use 'innate electricity' from the body. Just the normal precess of the hydrogen atoms. Otherwise, how could you perform MRI on things like Egyptian mummies?

As for your medical advice, since I suffer from neither ED or prostate cancer, I am not sure what you are suggesting. It does seem like one of your usual rants that are peppered with a few facts and a lot of quackery.... Like your advice that a diet will stop a womens' urinary system from being changed by either time or childbirth.

You medical conspiracy theorists are a funny group!

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 7, 2009 11:17:33 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 7, 2009 11:50:20 AM PDT
Ali says:
It takes two magnets in order for one magnet to assess the other. What do you think causes the innate tissue differences to be revealed to the MRI sensors? All matter, period, has energy; it's called electrons spinning. What do you think radiation coming from uranium is? It's really high energy. That's why it doesn't take life in order to detect magnetism in matter.

Do you think magnets are alive? Or do you think that compasses---magnets used even by ancient sailors---were measuring hydrogen? Do you think compasses are alive? Or do you just believe that the sailors were using witchcraft, psuedoscience, and quackery? Many of the scientists, hundreds and even thousands of years ago, had clearer scientitific understanding than most persons today do. The magnets called compasses were assessing the magnet field of the Earth---detecting North Pole versus South Pole. How did this magnetism get in the Earth? The Earth's core is molten metals---creating battery currents.

Life doesn't create electricity or magnetism. And the lack of life doesn't remove electricity and magnetism from a dead body, like a mummy. What life does is much different: it enables the matter to direct its own transmission of energy, and to consume more matter, which is intrinsically electric and magnetic whether or not you personally notice it.

You're ranting in order to try to suppress information and comprehension. Maybe you fear it, fear the realization that your own grasp of these matters is not the ultimate truth. So maybe you view this information---if true---as either scary or bothersome or overwhelming. Maybe you don't see that instead it's all really simple, really, if you just study and observe without cultural bias and without business or personal blinders. Yet instead of better understanding nonliving matter, you'd rather wage war against me---living matter---carrying this understanding to share with you.

You're using ad hominem attacks against me: attacking me personally, as by calling me a quack, to fill in for your inability to accurately debate against my indications. The greatest substance of your debate is Straw Man arguments: disregarding my position, which is A, and trying to prove your position, which is B, by your arguing against C and then claiming that you've disproved A. A Straw Man that you apply is your implying that I myself ever DID say that a continuous electric current runs through the nervous system. I never indicated that. What you, yourself, earlier DID say was that nerves do NOT transmit electric energy---your exact words, your full post:

"Nerves do not carry anything except information. To compare the nervous system to an electrical system is psuedo-science methodology. Nerve cells transmit information via chemicals and chemical receptors, not electricity.To compare the nervous system to an electrical system is psuedo-science methodology. Nerve cells transmit information via chemicals and chemical receptors, not electricity".

I won't even further delve now into your next utter simplism---a fallacy---where you in your next post suggest that there is absolutely no electricity at all in nerve tissue when it's shut "off".

If you back up and apply critical reading, you'll see that I did not say that a woman's diet would stop a woman's urinary system from changing over time and childbirth. The suggestion that I claimed that sets up a cunning Straw Man argument for you to make (for whose health benefit?). Rather, I said something utterly different. I said that if a woman eats properly---meaning biologically properly---and does not consume poisons, then she naturally retains urinary continence even in old age without a planned kegeling routine.

As for your taking my indications so personally---taking the general discussion applying the word "you" as if it's your personal diagnosis---again it seems you're overreacting to take this discussion so negatively and personally. I was just pointing out how your unscientific biases and your cultural blinders are depriving you from understanding male sexual function and health, and I was illustrating how such misunderstanding as you work so hard to enforce and keep others trapped within only sets people up for declining sexual function. Even most porn stars have poor erections. I gather that you wouldn't notice the difference, though, and would work to compel others that that is as good as it gets.

In any case, your involvement in this topic is actually useful because it gives a chance for such unscientific yet popular misunderstandings as your claims to get aired out and to prompt the revelation of actual scientific understanding, beyond just the most primitive and popular, so that others, who actually care, might have more chance to make these discoveries for their own understanding about health, functions, and healing.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 7, 2009 11:42:41 AM PDT
"If it weren't for nerves carrying energy to the urinary muscles, those muscles would do nothing. But maybe since you can't see it---or since you don't realize that many of the minerals in solution and in tissues in the body are literally to transmit energy along nerves and such just as alkaline minerals in batteries power your radio "

This is your original statement. NOW you are talking about quantum physics. Ye! All matter is energy and vice versa. You were talking in terms of electrical current. I made the statement that nothing but information is conducted between neurons. Which is a FACT that is taught in college level science courses that deals with neurons, even psychology classes. These are not my "positions" They are the facts that I was taught while getting a biochem degree.

What ad hominem attack are you speaking of? I did not attack you or your character. If I was using a ad hominem attack, I would have said "Ali, your an idiot. Are you so stupid that you don't know only information is transfered between neurons" I merely started a biological fact. YOU started in on the ad hominem attacks...just like you did in the 'spanking discussion' YOU are the one that condescendingly tells everyone the "real reason" things do or do not occur. If you think you have been unfairly arttacked in this discussion, I suggest you look inward.

The other posters seem to agree as two of your long-winded diatribes have been labeled as "Not contributory"

You can contnue on with your raw food facism and medical quackery...but it looks like few people are listening.

" said that if a woman eats properly---meaning biologically properly---and does not consume poisons, then she naturally retains urinary continence even in old age without a kegeling routine"

This is the real straw man argument. Because it does not take into account individual physiology, effect/number of children and differences in natural aging. These things are independent of diet and "poisons". Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of biochemistry knows that nutrients (like vitamin C) play an important role in tissue strength and repair but it is a silly argument to state that "Anyone that eats properly and avoids "poisons" is guaranteed to never suffer urinary incontinence is beyond silly.

Neither will Kegels, for that matter. Always distrust the person that "knows' all the "answers".

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 7, 2009 11:47:02 AM PDT
Ali said
"Even most porn stars have poor erections. I gather that you wouldn't notice the difference, though, and would work to compel others that that is as good as it gets"

Nope! I concede that you are much better versed in the quality of porn star's erections than I am!

"I was just pointing out how your unscientific biases"

I actually am a scientist. What are you besides a health guru parrot?

Posted on Aug 7, 2009 12:14:40 PM PDT
Euge says:
I would just like to point out the irony of having a pissing contest over the topic of incontinence.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 7, 2009 4:22:55 PM PDT
what'd he say???!

Posted on Aug 7, 2009 4:28:23 PM PDT
Seriously - to answer the original question...

As a married guy I *like* my wife to do her 'kegels' daily - regardless of the fact that she no longer pees herself when laughing or sneezing, I have noticed some rather amazing and pleasing changes in the bedroom since she started doing them 4yrs ago!

For women that have never done them on a regular basis, it is never too late to start! And doing so both provides benefits to you, and your bed-partner!

Posted on Aug 8, 2009 12:13:18 AM PDT
M. Zehnder says:
There's no benefit to doing them for males?...

Why is that?...
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