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Against the grain opinions... that are dumb


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Initial post: Nov 24, 2012 5:36:01 AM PST
A customer says:
I like to consider myself an appreciator of the arts. Art is subjective, yes, but sometimes there comes a point when one opinion is more correct than another. This may go against my greater philosophy, but let's face it, certain albums are legendary for good reason. Here are 7 examples of ridiculous opinions that I've actually encountered both online and in the world:

It Was Written > Illmatic
Blueprint > Reasonable Doubt
The Eminem Show > Marshall Mathers LP
Life After Death > Ready To Die
Wu-Tang Forever > 36 Chambers
2001 > The Chronic
The Massacre > Get Rich or Die Tryin'

I don't often get to act to act all entitled and snobbish, so let me enjoy this for a moment.

Good. Do YOU agree with any of the above? Have you heard opinions as or more ridiculous than the ones I posted? By all means, now's the chance to act like an entitled hip hop elitist.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 24, 2012 7:54:55 AM PST
Real217 says:
Ian again and his thought process.
I dont see any ridiculous comparisons above, but arguable positions. Some i COMPLETELY agree with.

It Was Written > Illmatic (not ridiculous at all, track for track, illmatic is overrated, classic, but still overrated.)
Life After Death > Ready To Die [I've been saying this for ages, dead on]

The rest can go either way, except maybe GRODT/Massacre and 2001/Chronic.

Not a Wu-Tang fan, but my wutang fiends for friends would disagree with that one.

Posted on Nov 24, 2012 10:49:41 AM PST
All of those are debatable and could be valid except It Was Written and The Massacre.

Posted on Nov 24, 2012 11:04:03 AM PST
Alex says:
Yeah I think Massacre is better than Get Rich, I also think that I'd rather listen to 2001 than The Chronic, and The Eminem Show over The Marshal Mathers LP. Not a huge Jay-Z fan, but I did also like Blueprint over Reasonable Doubt... The rest however, I agree, Illmatic clearly better than It Was Written, 36 Chambers superior to Wu Tang Forever, and Ready To Die is leagues ahead of Life After..

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 24, 2012 12:14:43 PM PST
A customer says:
The intro notwithstanding, name one bad song on Illmatic. Just one.

And let's look at Life After Death. That album reminds me of The Beatles' self-titled, AKA the "White Album": Half classic material, half filler. If it were a single-disc album with the following track list:

1. "Somebody's Gotta Die"
2. "Hypnotize"
3. "Last Day"
4. "I Love the Dough"
5. "Mo Money Mo Problems"
6. "Kick in the Door"
7. "What's Beef?"
8. "Niqqas Bleed"
9. "Notorious Thugs"
10. "Ten Crack Commandments"
11. "Long Kiss Goodnight"
12. "You're Nobody (Til Somebody Kills You)"

then it might be as good as Ready To Die. Having to wade through garbage like "Eff You Tonight", "Playa Hater" and "Nasty Boy" isn't pleasant.

Posted on Nov 24, 2012 12:20:56 PM PST
A customer says:
"I'd rather listen to 2001 than The Chronic, and The Eminem Show over The Marshal Mathers LP. Not a huge Jay-Z fan, but I did also like Blueprint over Reasonable Doubt"

Those aren't aren't ridiculous opinions, they're your personal tastes. You admit that you simply prefer one over the other. Where I draw the line is when people say that x album is CLEARLY superior to y album when y = more acclaimed album and x = less acclaimed album. I may disagree with your opinions, but I won't cause a fuss. Hell, how do you think it goes for me when I tell people I prefer Alien 3 over Aliens?

Posted on Nov 24, 2012 12:50:19 PM PST
Life After Death song for song can easily hang with RTD and may be better but I feel that's where preference starts coming in. But Ready To Die does feel more cohesive as an album.

Posted on Nov 24, 2012 2:01:43 PM PST
I like "The Blueprint", but in no way is it seeing "Reasonable Doubt"- not by a longshot.

Posted on Nov 24, 2012 5:42:30 PM PST
SRP says:
lol... an opinion is an opinion... nothing is right or wrong about. If someone says Soulja Boy is better than Nas, they are saying so because they PREFER Soulja Boy over Nas. That is their opinion.

There is no difference between opinions and personal tastes.

Posted on Nov 24, 2012 5:55:32 PM PST
A customer says:
That's true, Southern. There are, however, differences in syntax and presentation that mean everything.

That's an extreme example, but are the statements "I prefer Soulja Boy's music over Nas'" and "Soulja Boy is easily better than Nas" equally absurd? Almost, but the former is slightly less ridiculous. Semantics. Not sarcastically, I mean literally, it's a matter of semantics that differentiates a bold opinion from a quaint personal taste.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 25, 2012 1:50:40 AM PST
SRP says:
While true, it's a matter of reception to me more than anything. Does it really make a difference if someone says "Soulja Boy is easily better than Nas" or "Soulja Boy is easily better than Nas to me?"

It doesn't. Their opinion is their opinion. People just choose to take offense to one presentation over the other.

None of it is quantifiable. It's all subjective.

Of course, there will probably be little good or productive discussion to be had when trying to debate Nas vs. Soulja Boy because they are at extremes stylistically.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 26, 2012 8:40:10 AM PST
Real217 says:
I didnt say there's a or bad songs in Illmatic, Illmatic is great, infact, I AM and IT Was Written are both better albums. To me, the peak of Nas was on the I AM album. Are you serious? Illmatic does not come close to I AM, lyrically, musically or maturity wise. I dont get it sometimes.

Life After Death is still Life After Death, just because it had filler songs doesnt take anything away from the other songs, the other songs you mentioned are still there, so why do you have to remove the other "average" songs to make it great? Another thing i dont get. LIfe After Death KILLS "Ready to Die" by a LONGSHOT.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 26, 2012 1:30:07 PM PST
A customer says:
I don't know, maybe it's because you listen via an iPod or something like that. When I want to listen to those albums, I usually put its record on for maximum audio warmth and quality. Skipping a track on wax is much different that skipping a track digitally. It's rarely done. Back when LP's were popular, artists couldn't afford to have filler. Even in the early to mid-90's, that standard of quality was mostly there. Calling any album with that much filler a classic is absurd. That's like saying a film that's half great/half terrible is a masterpiece because you can fast forward the boring parts at home.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 26, 2012 2:04:38 PM PST
I'm 100% sure LP's had filler or weak songs to someone somewhere. And what you define as filler is not the definition for everyone.

Posted on Nov 26, 2012 2:10:08 PM PST
A customer says:
Well... you can only judge things subjectively for so long before you call bullshit.

Posted on Nov 26, 2012 2:22:58 PM PST
You can type bullshit on here? bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit

Posted on Nov 26, 2012 2:30:48 PM PST
michael says:
Lol... I'm sure the Amazon police will sweep in here and start deleting any time now... such bullshit...

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 26, 2012 3:12:07 PM PST
Anyone who agrees with.....

It Was Written > Illmatic
Life After Death > Ready To Die
Wu-Tang Forever > 36 Chambers
2001 > The Chronic

......has shit for brains and taste in their ass.

It is a fact.....that this is my opinion.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 26, 2012 3:13:06 PM PST
SRP says:
Amazon police is bullshit.

They will come in and delete.

In fact, even if they sold an item called bullshit and you were talking about said item they would delete it.

On Bullshit

Like this book, called On Bullshit

Posted on Nov 26, 2012 5:09:26 PM PST
A customer says:
@Sloan
Heh. I wouldn't put it like that, but that's a valid opinion, too. I do respect others' opinions, it's just that I'm legitimately flabbergasted by them. From time to time.

By the way, speaking of wax, has anyone here had the pleasure of listening to hip hop through an all tube stereo system? Especially when listening to records, you will not believe how warm and fat the bass tone is. Just some friendly advice to anyone: If you listen mainly to hip hop and you're ever thinking of getting a new stereo amp, tube is the way to go. Solid state just can't give you the same bass kick and clarity in the low end.

I had to do that spiel eventually. May as well have been now.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 5:29:05 AM PST
Terry Myers says:
It Was Written > Illmatic
Blueprint > Reasonable Doubt
The Eminem Show > Marshall Mathers LP
Life After Death > Ready To Die
Wu-Tang Forever > 36 Chambers
2001 > The Chronic
The Massacre > Get Rich or Die Tryin'

^^^^^I don't think any of these opinions are dumb even though i only happen to agree with one of them. There are far too many factors to consider when criticizing someone's opinion of a particular album, artist, or era.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 5:36:53 AM PST
Terry Myers says:
"Life After Death is still Life After Death, just because it had filler songs doesnt take anything away from the other songs, the other songs you mentioned are still there, so why do you have to remove the other "average" songs to make it great?"

An album can't simply be judged by it's highs. It needs to be judged by it's lows(filler) as well. What you define as filler may not be what others define as filler though. Ian said Life After Death was half filler. To me, that's just laughable, but that's his opinion. I also don't like comparing a double album to a single disc albums.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 27, 2012 5:43:15 AM PST
Real217 says:
That was partly my point but i admit, it was not conveyed that way. he called them filler thats why i used the word. The album was better than Ready to Die, yes it had some average songs, but they were still good to me.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012 4:24:32 AM PST
M. Clifford says:
I've never heard some of these albums. Never heard any Eminem album after MMLP, never heard ANY 50 Cent album, never heard any Jay-Z album after Dynasty, but judging by the garbage I've had to listen to unwillingly by Em and Jay since those albums I'd have a hard time agreeing that Blueprint and The Eminem Show are >>>.

As for the ones I know: Nas, Biggie, Wu, and Dre... there's no way any of this is true IMO.

Nas- Illmatic is his best. I actually prefer Stillmatic, The Lost Tapes, and I Am... over It Was Written.

Big- I hated most of the production on Life After Death. There were a few good tracks but for the most part I found the production to be too "poppy". If it was up to production this album would never get play, the lyrics are really all that make it a decent album.

Dre- The Chronic seemed like a much more authentic gangsta rap album than 2001. I think a lot of it has to do with the times they were released in and also the experiences that Dre went through from 92-2000. By 2000 (actually long before that) he just seemed like he wanted to chill and make music and get away from that gangsta ish lifestyle so it kinda made 2001 seem less authentic. He still made some "gangsta" tracks on there but not nearly as hard as anything on The Chronic. It just seemed like he was tryin to grab the ear of the mainstream fanbase more. 2001 is still a good album overall, just doesn't compare to The Chronic.

Wu- This is a tough one. I'll always have to side with 36 Chambers though cuz it was a groundbreaking album that really put the W on the map. In my opinion this album was flawless. Forever was a great double album from front to back also, I feel like that could go up against most albums in hip hop history.

Posted on Nov 28, 2012 6:41:49 AM PST
Wanduras says:
This will always be one of those fiery debates. I think it all has to do with your particular era. From my viewpoint, I consider myself the middle era. Older than me are the old school heads that love the 80s and early 90s and younger than me tend to love late 90s to post 2000. I will be 30 in Feb so I was only 9-13 when most of the "clearly better albums" came out. While I did listen to Hip Hop at that age, I didn't start to really understand it until a few years later. I have always said that opinions of albums are rarely free of the influence of the environment in which they are heard. For example, Below the Heavens is considered a classic to a lot of people and I agree that it's dope and prob should be considered so, but the only memories I tie to it are listening to it at work or in my car on the way to work. It doesn't have the impact on me of let's say, Xzibit's Restless, which I used to bump in the whip in high school, ridin with the homies. On paper, Blu kills Xzibit. In my catalog of personal classics...not so much. Anyway...

Illmatic = It Was Written
I have never understood people's hate of It Was Written. The beats are better IMO and the lyrics are just as good. But I also like Nas Is Coming, a track that most Nas Stans seem to hate so...idk. But I also can't deny Illmatic's dopeness and impact on the grand scheme of Hip Hop. Tie on these two.

Reasonable Doubt > Blueprint
Come on, son...Blueprint was an "Oh Shit, Jigga's still got it!" album. But it was no Reasonable Doubt. That album was a "blueprint" for what a debut album should be.

Marshall Mathers LP > Eminem Show
I'm not a big Em fan so it's not really fair for me to weigh in. I can only listen to SSLP and MMLP. And Ian, are you saying that MMLP is Em's best overall or just using it for this comparison? IMO, SSLP is his GOAT.

Ready To Die > Life After Death
Juicy. Nuff Said.

Wu-Tang Forever > 36 Chambers
It hurts to say this honestly, but WTF is 36 Chambers X2. How does it not win?

The Chronic = 2001
Another one where it has to tie. Chronic is the epitome of G Rap but 2001 is one of my favorite produced albums of all time.

Get Rich Or Die Tryin > The Massacre
But only because I hate 50 and I never bothered to listen to any of his ish ever again after GRODT. High All The Time is my joint tho.
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Discussion in:  Hip Hop forum
Participants:  14
Total posts:  44
Initial post:  Nov 24, 2012
Latest post:  Nov 30, 2012

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