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optimum strategy for peace - consider hamas vs isreal


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Posted on Nov 18, 2012 5:53:57 PM PST
DarthRad says:
JML,

Do you ever bother to actually try to learn something that's true? Yes, that Youtube video is written in Arabic.

But PLAY THE VIDEO. Mahmoud Abbas is speaking in ENGLISH in the video. He is specifically trying to reach out to the English speaking audience here, Americans in particular.

I think you do speak English JML? Here's the video again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RWa0hUcTUFA#!

The first thing Abbas says in the video is
As far as I am here in this office, THERE WILL BE NO ARMED INTIFADA, NEVER. WE DON'T WANT TO USE TERROR, WE DON'T WANT TO USE FORCE, WE DON'T WANT TO USE WEAPONS, WE WANT TO USE DIPLOMACY, WE WANT TO USE POLITICS, WE WANT TO USE NEGOTIATIONS, WE WANT TO USE PEACEFUL RESISTANCE, THAT'S IT.

Later on, he talks about accepting the fact that Palestinians will never be able to their pre-1948 homes, and that for him, a two state solution would be the 1967 borders INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED (including the United States) as the official borders of Israel.

Open up that video with Google Chrome and use the Translate function. You will see all sorts of comments posted by Palestinian supporters denouncing Abbas as a traitor.

And so, for taking this bold step forward, for peace, Abbas gets a lot of flak from his own people, and gets..... nothing ... in return, from Netanyhu.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 5:58:23 PM PST
John M. Lane says:
Yes, DarthRad, I speak English like a native. Do you?

Abbas may, indeed, be a wonderfully courageous fellow, but he seems to be irrelevent. He's making the right sounds, but the rockets keep coming.

You remind me of Neville Chamberlain counting on the "good Nazis" to restrain "Herr Hitler." It's a nice thought, but I wouldn't bet my life on it.

Would you?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 6:04:46 PM PST
L. King says:
http://translate.google.ca/translate?sl=ar&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wafa.ps%2Farabic%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Ddetail%26id%3D141328

President: We Did NOT Give Up the Right of Return

The President explained: talk about Safed personal position, does not mean waiver of the right of return, and no one can waive the right of return, all international texts and resolutions of Arab and Islamic states just and agreed solution on the issue of refugees in accordance with UN Resolution 194, and the words 'Agreed' means the agreement with the Israeli side.

===================================
So Abbas really offered.... nothing.

In fact he hasn't changed his negotiating position since assuming office. 1967 cease fire lines followed by further negotiations for more.

Abu Bluff speaks from both sides of his mouth - one in English, the other in Arabic. Or if you want to be generous, he made a statement in English and immediately backed down in Arabic because he couldn't get his own people to agree and reasoned that they would kill him to kill any such agreement.

Posted on Nov 18, 2012 6:20:10 PM PST
How about this solution: Israel withdraws to the Green line, the Jewish settlers choose to either leave or become citizens of Palestine, Palestine is recognized as a full member state with representation at the U.N., and Gazans choose their own future among various options. Finally, Israel would actually treat Palestinians and all of its neighbors with respect, and seek to have friendly relations with all of them, including Iran.

Then there would be peace. And with the Palestinian question resolved, Iran would no longer be the enemy of Israel.

The alternative, brute force and belligerence, is exactly what led to the military conflict which is occurring now.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 6:27:04 PM PST
John M. Lane says:
Your proposal is reasonable, Beast, but it presupposes a reasonable response by the Palestinians. They won't recognize Israel or even concede its right to exist, let alone negotiate boundaries with it.

I suspect if the Palestinians quit trying to annihilate the Israelis, the Israelis would be happy to have stable, peaceful Palestinian states for neighbors. In the meantime, they have to defend themselves from the ongoing shower of rockets, mortars and other hostile fire.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 6:29:44 PM PST
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/survey-most-israeli-jews-wouldn-t-give-palestinians-vote-if-west-bank-was-annexed.premium-1.471644
======================

the west bank is never going to be annexed. It's a hypothetical and the chance of that happening is slim to none.

You really don't have a good understanding of it do you.

{{Try reading something about Israel for a change that is out of the Faux News bubble you live in.}}

oh really, not another lame Faux news insult. Sheesh.

Posted on Nov 18, 2012 6:30:35 PM PST
Note that the most righteous, devout Jews in Israel, the Haredim, generally are opposed to the occupation of Palestine.

The less righteous are, of course, willing to sin against God by persecuting His devout worshippers. That is, the average Palestinian is more observant than the average Israeli.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 6:32:08 PM PST
DarthRad says:
As far as I am here in this office, THERE WILL BE NO ARMED INTIFADA, NEVER. WE DON'T WANT TO USE TERROR, WE DON'T WANT TO USE FORCE, WE DON'T WANT TO USE WEAPONS, WE WANT TO USE DIPLOMACY, WE WANT TO USE POLITICS, WE WANT TO USE NEGOTIATIONS, WE WANT TO USE PEACEFUL RESISTANCE, THAT'S IT.
==============================
you do know he doesn't speak for Gaza, right?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 6:38:02 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 6:38:44 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 18, 2012 6:45:51 PM PST
The Beast of Revelation says: Gazans choose their own future among various options.
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another clueless one comes out of the woodwork

Hamas militants and many Palestinians believe that ALL of israel is Palestinian Muslim land. You see there is a belief that "once Muslim land, always muslin land." That is why parts of Spain is still considered muslin land buy some Muslims.

There will be no peace as so long as the Palestinians believe that every inch of israel is Muslim land occupied by zionists.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 6:41:27 PM PST
John M. Lane says:
I'm not responding to anybody's propaganda, Beast. I'm responding to rockets, mortars and other gunfire directed into Israel.

They have a responsibility to defend their citizens. Why don't the Palestinians stop shooting at them?

That would end the crisis and set the stage for peaceful negotiations.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 6:45:32 PM PST
The Beast of Revelation says:It is the Palestinians who have to defend themselves from the ongoing BLOCKADE,

=========================

radicals like hamas believe that Allah will deliver a victory to them over the jews and hand them all of israel. Hamas will smuggle in more powerful weapons and use them. The retaliation will get worse every time. The blockade protects gazans from themselves. You're are moron if you think groups like Hamas just want Gaza.

Posted on Nov 18, 2012 6:49:07 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 18, 2012 6:52:11 PM PST
John M. Lane says:
If they weren't importing components for rockets and other weapons, Israel would lift the blockade. The Palestinians seem more intent on annihilating Israel than they do on organizing a state for themselves.

What's stopping them from having their own state? Israel would benefit from having peaceful, stable neighbors and would help out.

Posted on Nov 18, 2012 6:50:09 PM PST
B. A. Dilger says:
OK you experts here, answer me this-- after the 1967 war gave Israel expanded boundaries, why didn't they deport the resident Arabs across the Jordan River or into the Mediterranean-Sinai coast? I understand that a large number of resident Arabs emigrated to Jordan, Lebanon, and elsewhere. Why didn't they all go so Jews could have a historical Israel?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 6:57:38 PM PST
Wulfwig Fox says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 7:12:43 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 7:13:09 PM PST
B. A. Dilger says:
How many left and how many stayed? If there were no "West Bank" or "Gaza" which are essentially giant prison camps would we have all the war and suffering since 1967? History is full of mass migrations even until today. Refugees recently include Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Sudan, the Congo and Russia. Since the resident Arabs sided with Israel's enemies during the 1967 war, this made them enemy hostiles too. There are more former "Palestinians" in Jordan now than native Jordanians. Has anyone seen a recent map of the "West Bank" lately? Or counted how many residents are Jewish? Who's going to untangle that mess?

Posted on Nov 18, 2012 7:28:11 PM PST
DarthRad says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 7:29:31 PM PST
well it doesnt need the goyim haters taking a dump in it

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 7:31:02 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 18, 2012 7:56:47 PM PST
The Beast of Revelation says:Just remember that God is a God of justice; and cares about the poor and the downtrodden; and treasures His worshippers; and hates the wicked.
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but apparently doesn't much like a bunch of black kids in Africa who he lets starve to death and die from lack of clean drinking water. (sarcasm)

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 7:32:43 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 18, 2012 7:33:43 PM PST
you really had to drive it down our throats that you really don't have a clue, huh?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 7:47:53 PM PST
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 7:56:12 PM PST
.The Beast of Revelation says:
Even if their enemy is doing that, they themselves still attack only military targets
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the military targets are intermingled in civilian neighborhoods. even the Geneva conventions require that a combatant force fight has a recognized military and also not to hide among civilians. Hamas doesn't care. For them, every death is a martyr for Allah.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 7:56:51 PM PST
John M. Lane says:
So am I, Beast.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2012 8:00:47 PM PST
John M. Lane says:
Righteous people don't place their launching sites next to homes, nurseries, mosques, etc., in hopes of generating just the kind of casualties which seem to be manipulating you, Beast. Your Palestinian chums are weaponizing women and children by placing them in the line of fire and then hiding behind them.

People like you are the reason that works. Look carefully at your hands. You'll see innocent blood there.
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This discussion

Discussion in:  History forum
Participants:  16
Total posts:  327
Initial post:  Nov 18, 2012
Latest post:  Nov 23, 2012

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