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Hitler's mistakes

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In reply to an earlier post on Feb 3, 2012 12:31:56 PM PST
J. Schwarz says:
There was plenty of guilt for the Americans. Roosevelt was warned by a Pole in a private meeting who tried to explain what was going on and it completely went over his head. Aside from that the US would not let the ship the St. Louis carrying the fleeing Jews from Germany to land. There are lots more examples. Britain is equally to blame, and the Evian conference was a joke. A lot becomes known when you take a class in the event.

Posted on Feb 4, 2012 7:59:29 AM PST
JB Frodsham. says:
Love this stuff! Well done.

Posted on Feb 4, 2012 3:58:54 PM PST
Zaplightning says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Feb 4, 2012 4:29:57 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 4, 2012 4:30:27 PM PST
Susanna says:
HI J, what are you guys covering now? In class I mean :)

Posted on Feb 4, 2012 4:37:18 PM PST
Zaplightning says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Feb 4, 2012 4:43:46 PM PST
Susanna says:
I yes voted you :)

The bad news is there are some nazis here.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 4, 2012 5:21:22 PM PST
Leslie Funk says:
Latvia and other countries viewed the Nazis as liberators, only to have their own governments capitulate with the invading armies. The Einsatzgrupen followed and dispelled any myth regarding liberation. Hitlers invading armies were well versed in the art of deception.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 4, 2012 6:18:55 PM PST
mP says:
hitlers biggest mistake was his policies made everyone hate the germans. The war in the east would have been sifnificantly different if ukranians and defecting ruasians etc were treated as allies instead of enemies to be slaughtered. One has to wonder how many tropops'were wasted on slaughtering, camps, fighting patizans. Even hitler had thousands of troops protecting his wolfs lair while churchill had a si gle bodyguard. While the last statement maybe a little bit over stated its hard to win when everyone is against you and hates you with a passion.

The same hatred and cruelty by the japanese in the pacific did not help them, with natives and locals helping the allies.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 4, 2012 7:33:36 PM PST
J. Schwarz says:
Finished the Warsaw Ghetto uprising,Zegota and the medical experiments. Also what happened to the Sephardic Jews in the ME. Only have another week to go and he will touch on Holocaust denial and the Nuremburg trials. Glad I took the course.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 4, 2012 7:38:09 PM PST
Susanna says:
Uprising

I loved this for allowing viewers the chance to know the fighters, although it is horrifying.

The course seems to have been too short :(

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2012 8:40:19 AM PST
J. Schwarz says:
It was short, 6 wks., with daily classes but a tremendous amount of material learned and absorbed. People think they can learn everything they need to know from racist websites, you can't. Aside from that there are the personal stories that do not make it to the websites on line, the small touches of humanity that make us all human and the inhumanity of so called average people.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2012 11:29:05 AM PST
Why do all of the threads involving Hitler have to be conducted in such an emotional and juvenile way? About 70% of the posts in this thread are simply troll behavior. Deal with his REAL mistakes not your personal dislike of him which has nothing to do with the topic.

Hitler's biggest mistake wasn't made until the Summer of 1942 when he decided he would attempt to conquer Stalingrad and the Baku oilfields at the same time and thus he divided those two armies rather than sending both of them to take Stalingrad. After the defeat at Stalingrad Hitler had repeated nightmares about this decision and even he knew that it was a major cause of the defeat on the Eastern Front.

Issues involving the Battle of Britain have recently been exposed as pure myths, the Royal Navy was too strong for Britain to be invaded by Germany and the German Navy knew it and it was Raeder who kept dragging his feet on the project because he didn't want to launch the operation so the significance of the Luftwaffe's defeat over Britain in August 1940 has been vastly overestimated. This just was not the turning point in the war that the British Nationalists have claimed it was.

Also, the so-called "huge error" of invading Russia has been very exaggerated, several Russian historians in the last 20 years have revealed that Stalin made a speech to his top Generals in May 1941 saying that the Red Army was moving over to the Offensive and that the main enemy was Germany. Read the book Stalin's Folly by Constantine Pleshakov, Stalin was in the process of planning to attack Germany when Hitler suddenly attacked him. The outdated Cold War era/current History Channel narrative that Stalin was just sitting there like a fool waiting for Hitler to attack him and that Hitler insanely attacked Russia for no reason other than his own ego is ridiculously simplistic and WRONG.

If you want a good book about Hitler's war leadership during WWII you should buy the book Hitler's Strategy from 1951 by the British Naval expert Francis Harry Hinsley.

Posted on Feb 5, 2012 11:42:57 AM PST
Barbarossa.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2012 1:02:33 PM PST
Sutekh says:
Thomas Martin says:
There is a popular line of argumentation blaming Germany's crushing defeat in WW2 on Hitler's mistakes.

In your opinion, which important decisions made by Hitler from August 1939 onwards were mistakes? In order to qualify as Hitler's mistakes they must fulfill the following 2 criteria:

1 They must be shown to be mistakes based on information available to the German civilian and military leadership AT THE TIME the decision was made (in other words forget hindsight)

2 They must be shown to have gone against the position/wishes of a significant portion of the German civilian and military leadership (in other words if a majority was pushing for this decision then the decision cannot be blamed solely on Hitler)
--------------------------------------------------------
"I solemnly prophesize that this accursed Hitler will cast our country into the abyss and bring our nation into
inconceivable misery. Further generations will damn you in your grave for what you have done."
- Field Marshall Erich von Ludendorff, 1933
Chief of Staff in East Prussia(1914-1916)
Commander of the Western Front(1917-1918)

That Hitler, his henchmen, and political allies in Germany forced a dictatorship upon Germany, suppressing all sorts of personal rights, would be his first mistake.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2012 1:17:03 PM PST
There's Sutekh going off topic again. The topic isn't about Hitler's dictatorship or his suppressing personal rights. If you can't discuss the actual topic then don't post in this thread.

Posted on Feb 5, 2012 2:09:13 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 5, 2012 2:10:52 PM PST
I hesitate to enter this discussion, with so many well informed (and opinionated) posters. So let me phrase my thoughts as questions.

Was Barbarossa itself a mistake? The RAF turned out to be pretty tough and the Royal Navy was still pretty much intact, so Sea Lion seemed less feasible. The Red Army was in disarray after the purges and had shown its weakness in the Winter War with Finland. Hitler knew he would need to fight the USSR sooner or later. Spring 1941 must have seemed propitious.

Was it Hitler's decision not to prepare Barbarossa for winter? Whoever decided that must have been an incurable optimist. It is hard to imagine a professional soldier making that decision.

Wasn't it Hitler who decided, when the Soviets counterattacked, that the Wehrmacht would give no ground, not even a tactical retreat to re-group? This also seems an extremely amateurish decision.

Whose decision was it to hold troops and tanks in reserve for a Normandy invasion at Calais, even after the invasion had begun? Surely von Rundstedt must have realized that the Allied invasion force was much too large to have an even larger force waiting to attack at Calais.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2012 2:40:11 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 5, 2012 2:41:23 PM PST
Sutekh says:
James Summers says:
The topic isn't about Hitler's dictatorship or his suppressing personal rights. If you can't discuss the actual topic then don't post in this thread.
------------------------------
Being a dictatorship and suppressing personal rights is a military mistake because it provides democratic nations with a perfect excuse to oppose you as well as supporting elements within that undemocratic nation to overthrow you, which is of significant military significance, as Libya and now Syria perfectly illustrates. The undemocratic nature of the 3rd Reich as opposed to liberators also played a significant role in resistance to the 3rd Reich in the Soviet Union, as others have already noted. Much like Napoleon before him, Hitler was doomed to failure from the start, regardless of his military victories, because many would oppose him with everything they had because of his undemocratic natures and abuses..

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2012 4:06:36 PM PST
Suet says:
"British Nationalists", James? Who they? LOL!

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2012 4:11:14 PM PST
Suet says:
"I solemnly prophesize that this accursed Hitler will cast our country into the abyss and bring our nation into
inconceivable misery. Further generations will damn you in your grave for what you have done."
- Field Marshall Erich von Ludendorff, 1933

That's interesting. If Ludendoff said that as early as 1933, can we have a cite? Thanks!

Posted on Feb 5, 2012 4:27:53 PM PST
"Hitler's greatest mistake" lay in not finishing off THE BRITISH EMPIRE. And by that I don't mean, invading Britain. Operation Sealion would have been a colossal roll of the dice, what with the Soviets looming near the Rumanian oil fields. While the Germans were wrapped up in Britain, a Soviet attack on their southern flank could have been catastrophic.

No. By rolling up Gibraltar, taking Malta, and flanking both the British MidEast AND the Soviet Union with tank armies sent to Syria via Turkey, Hitler would have turned the Mediterranean into an Axis lake. The exposed underbelly of Nazi-occupied Europe would have been protected, and the stage set for the final confrontation with the USSR.

In that confrontation, an expeditionary force sent through the Caucasus toward Stalingrad, accompanied by an Eastward push from Poland and East Prussia, similar to Operation Barbarossa, would have stood a lot better chance of success in 1942, than Barbarossa stood in 1941. Outgunned, outflanked, overrun, the Red Army would have collapsed, setting the stage for --

An American nuclear attack on Nazi Germany, circa 1946. If we'd had nerve enough to do it....

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2012 4:28:53 PM PST
Sutekh says:
Suetonius says:
"I solemnly prophesize that this accursed Hitler will cast our country into the abyss and bring our nation into
inconceivable misery. Further generations will damn you in your grave for what you have done."
- Field Marshall Erich von Ludendorff, 1933

That's interesting. If Ludendoff said that as early as 1933, can we have a cite? Thanks!
-----------------------------------

It's quoted in William Shirer's "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich". I'd have to dig it out to check the footnotes.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2012 7:29:27 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 5, 2012 7:52:24 PM PST
Leslie Funk says:
If Hitler had stuck to taking the Baku oilfields, he could have solidified the juice that kept his war machine mobile. Stalingrad did not hold the stratigic importance that the oilfields did, and I believe it was his ego that superceded common sense.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 6, 2012 11:44:08 AM PST
In September 1941 Goebbels asked Jodl of the military high command if the army was prepared for the Russian winter and Jodl said it was taken care of but that early distribution of winter clothing would harm the morale of the soldiers who expected to win the campaign before the cold weather hit.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 6, 2012 11:46:20 AM PST
The German Navy was incapable of holding Gibraltar for very long even if they captured it.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 6, 2012 11:48:10 AM PST
Sutekh, your theory doesn't explain how then that the undemocratic Soviet Union won the war.
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Initial post:  Feb 1, 2012
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