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Jews vs. Goyim?

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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2012 8:20:17 PM PST
Lientje says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2012 8:12:02 PM PST
Lientje says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2012 6:11:46 PM PST
Linda Sang says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2012 6:08:31 PM PST
Linda Sang says:
SHAKEPEN: We know that a definite group, called Gnostics, existed during the time of Christ because they worshipped him, thanks to the materials fround at Nag Hammadi.

LINDA: They are called Gnostics by us, but they usually didn't refer to themselves that way. From the beginning of the Christian period they called themselves simply "Christians." I really don't know how they referred to themselves before that. Possibly they used the word "pneumatikoi" (spiritual ones)? I'm not sure about that.

But they definitely existed before the Christian period. If you are familiar with the Nag Hammadi Library, you know there are two interesting documents placed side by side for comparison in the first edition. I don't know if it's like that in subsequent editions or not.

I have the book on my lap at this moment and I'm transcribing this from the preface:

"*Eugnostos the Blessed* is in form a religio-philosophical epistle written by a teacher to his disciples; *The Sophia of Jesus Christ* is a revelation discourse given by the risen Christ to his followers. Despite their different forms, these two tractates are two versions of the same original document. The former is without Christian influence, while the latter is heavily Christianized. Research thus far tends to the conclusion that *Eugnostos the Blessed* is nearer the original."

That seems pretty self-explanatory to me. I'll see if I can track down the online version of these documents, so you can see for yourself if you're interested.

Posted on Dec 31, 2012 4:06:32 PM PST
jeffesq613 says:
About 5 posts left to this thread. Let's see which anti-Semite will start another thread with such an execrable title.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2012 3:48:17 PM PST
Bryan Borich says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2012 3:46:45 PM PST
Bryan Borich says:
Faiths change over time Hinduiasm did and Judiasm did. However Hinduism is older than Judiasm.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2012 3:21:39 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 31, 2012 3:26:00 PM PST
jeffesq613 says:
He edited that post after I responded to it. I was responding only to the gibberish of what exists now as the first sentence of his post.

As I said previously, if someone truly were Bryan's friend, she would encourage him to get help rather than patronize his delusions of grandeur.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2012 3:08:17 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 31, 2012 3:10:48 PM PST
Shakepen says:
Bryan, Bryan, Bryan: The first paragraph of your source reads: "Firstly, in a strict sense there was no 'Hinduism' before modern times, although the sources of Hindu traditions are very ancient." If you read on, you will find that the Indus Civilization ended in 2,000 BCE. The Indus Civilization left plenty of ruins; however, there was no writing as I remember although they did have a standard of weights and measures. I don't see how one can attribute Hinduism to the Indus Civilization. Mohenjo Daro is also in Pakistan. Ironic, isn't it? Oh, they did have a language, but it is undecipherable.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2012 3:00:50 PM PST
Bryan Borich says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2012 2:57:18 PM PST
Bryan Borich says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2012 2:56:04 PM PST
Shakepen says:
Linda Sang: As I've tried to point out in previous posts, most religions in the West claim the same powers for their deities. It becomes impossible to really sort them out regarding who came first, who descended from whom, etc. We know that a definite group, called Gnostics, existed during the time of Christ because they worshipped him, thanks to the materials fround at Nag Hammadi.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2012 2:53:13 PM PST
Shakepen says:
Bryan: Am I going to be treated to another of your Wiki sources? What scholars agree with you?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2012 2:52:13 PM PST
Shakepen says:
Bryan: You are talking about reality and religion in the same breath? I do respect Judaism. This does not mean that I approve of everything the current government of Israel is doing. However, I should note that everyone who is criticizing Israel for everything from murder to genocide are wrong. No other group has suffered as much as the Jewish community over the ages. That some feel Israel's right to self-defense is murder are simply wrong.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2012 2:48:55 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 31, 2012 2:59:26 PM PST
Shakepen says:
Bryan: You forget that Wiki can be read by anyone. I'm anyone, and I did read Wiki. I suggest you go back and take another look at your source. Sanskrit and Hinduism began in (circa) 1,500 BCE. 'tis called "historic Vedic period."

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2012 2:44:35 PM PST
Linda Sang says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2012 2:40:12 PM PST
Bryan Borich says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2012 2:32:20 PM PST
jeffesq613 says:
There must be a competent psychiatrist who can help you.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2012 2:27:29 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 31, 2012 2:36:01 PM PST
Bryan Borich says:
That sort of comes across as saying Jewish translators would like to make Jews look better. And therefore no 'miracles' were ever performed by your people, only those of other people.

btw -

Miracles are child's play
10/11/2012 16:49 By LEVI COOPER
One of the great hassidic masters and a renowned storyteller, did not place much stock in miracle workers.

Photo by: Courtesy
Many a tale records wondrous deeds by the hassidic masters, stories of their miracles and supernatural capabilities. Not all hassidic tales, however, laud miracles. Indeed, Rabbi Yisrael Friedman of Ruzhin (1796-1850), one of the great hassidic masters and a renowned storyteller, did not place much stock in miracle workers or tales of magical capabilities.

"I don't understand this generation," the Holy Ruzhiner is reported to have said. "They praise the great rabbis of the generation for the myriad of miracles they perform. How can that be? One of the great miracle workers in our tradition, Elijah the Prophet, is described as performing only seven or eight miracles. Elisha, another prophet who performed miracles, is credited with twice as many miracles throughout his entire life. Today's holy people are reported as performing up to 15 miracles a day!" It was not just that the Holy Ruzhiner doubted the veracity of the numerous miracle tales that were circulating. In Rabbi Yisrael's eyes, miracles were not the essence of serving God; they were merely child's play.

According to one storyteller, the Holy Ruzhiner was once asked why miracles were not so apparent in his court, as opposed to the tales of wondrous deeds that were told about other hassidic masters.

The Holy Ruzhiner responded, "Each tzaddik [righteous person] is given the opportunity to journey through supernal worlds. One of those levels is the world where miracles can be wrought. Some righteous people gain access to that realm and mistakenly think that they have reached the pinnacle.

They remain there and perform miracles for all to see.

"Other righteous people are wiser; they understand that the realm of miracles is only a way station that is undoubtedly useful, but is still far from the goal. They wisely continue the journey to loftier levels, and only in the neediest situations do they stoop to the world of miracles to help another."

He continued with an autobiographical note: "I reached the world of miracles when I was six or seven. Already at that age, I understood the importance of moving on to loftier worlds."

Recalling his youthful sojourn in the world of miracles, he recounted an anecdote: "A certain hassid of my father had an only child who was mute. Whenever the hassid would visit my father, he was wont to request a blessing for his silent son. My father would always respond with a blessing that the Almighty should help the boy.

"When the boy reached the age of 13 and still had not begun to talk, the hassid's wife turned to her husband: `Our son must start to wear tefillin and pray and recite blessings - let us all go together to ask for a blessing for a speedy recovery.' "The family traveled to my father, asked for a blessing as planned. My father responded as he always did. Brimming with trust in my father, the hassid opened a bottle of liquor and poured a l'haim for all his friends in order to celebrate the impending salvation promised by my father's blessing.

"When the hassid's wife saw that the boy was still mute, the three of them returned to my father, who told them, `Go and speak to my Yisrael'enyu.' "I was six years old at the time, and when the hassid came over to me, I was playing `horsie' with the beadle's son. The hassid said to me, `Yisrael'enyu, your father the rebbe sent me to you that you should help my son.' "`What's the problem?' I asked him. And he told me that the boy was mute. I went to the boy and asked him where he was from. And the boy told me. I asked him what his name was. And the boy told me.

"`What do you want from me?' I turned to the hassid, `He speaks like any other person!'" When the Holy Ruzhiner finished recounting the vignette, he added, "But now, I am very far from that world."

The writer is on the faculty of Pardes Institute of Jewish Studies and is a rabbi in Tzur Hadassah. His book, Relics for the Present, was recently published by Maggid Books and Pardes.

http://www.jpost.com/Magazine/Judaism/Article.aspx?id=287477

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2012 2:10:28 PM PST
jeffesq613 says:
Please tell us the names of the Rabbis and the books that allegedly are English translations of what they themselves wrote.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2012 2:08:47 PM PST
Linda Sang says:
@Jeff:

I can't read them in the original language, as you know very well. But I have read a number of them in translation.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2012 2:06:36 PM PST
Linda Sang says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2012 2:03:11 PM PST
jeffesq613 says:
I doubt you'd find any Orthodox Rabbi that would say that. As for non-Orthodox Rabbis, anything's possible.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2012 2:02:07 PM PST
jeffesq613 says:
Perhaps you can tell us of some of these writings that you have seen in the original language in which they were written.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 31, 2012 1:41:09 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 31, 2012 1:53:41 PM PST
Linda Sang says:
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Discussion in:  History forum
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Initial post:  Mar 31, 2012
Latest post:  Dec 31, 2012

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