Customer Discussions > History forum

Why is Israel such a hot topic?


Sort: Oldest first | Newest first
Showing 1-25 of 376 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Sep 7, 2012 10:33:32 AM PDT
I understand that Israel is important for western history because it is home to the Jewish religion which became the basis of Christianity which had a profound impact on world history. Israel is a small country that emerged from the Colonial period where the Jews could have their own state because of the long history of persicution.

Posted on Sep 7, 2012 11:28:56 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 7, 2012 5:26:22 PM PDT
IGS says:
JMC

It is a hot topic because Jews have had some very rough times in their history for a number of reasons. It came to a dreadful crescendo in the 1940's which underlined the possible need for such a state coupled with the British having control of some land that may have been suitable for a home state for this historically landless people. Because of their religion, they had some ties to Jerusalem, so there was some justification for establishing at state there. A large number of Zionist advocates had been lobbying for this for quite some time. And as with some many things, it seemed like a good idea at the time. Problem was that the land was in a relatively ancient Arabic/Turkic land (had been for centuries) and it was holy to them as well. Moreover, Arabs already lived there. Recipe for disaster. It has been a sad story of violence and bloodshed with ugliness on both sides ever since. Of course it is a magnet for discussion. It does not help that it serves as a focus for anti-semitic rants as well.

How convenient and idyllic the British offer of vast swathes of sparsely portions of resource rich Uganda seems in retrospect. But who knows, it might have been a bloodbath as well.

But I think that is the reason why, violence, conflict, Arab aggression, Israeli counter-aggression, injustice, and rabid anti-semitism is why. What better subject for the 6 o'clock news. Best answer I can give. And yes, "this post adds to the discussion". It can not but be otherwise. Should it not be agree/disagree with this comment?

Posted on Sep 7, 2012 12:33:44 PM PDT
Sixties fan says:
http://www.zionism-israel.com/bio/biography_herzl.htm

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 7, 2012 1:30:45 PM PDT
*Problem was that the land was in a historically ancient Arabic land (had been for centuries) and it was holy to them as well. Moreover, they lived there. Recipe for disaster. It has been a sad story of violence and bloodshed with ugliness on both sides ever since. Of course it is a magnet for discussion. It does not help that it serves as a focus for anti-semitic rants as well.

So, that land was only Arabic because it was conquered. We have taken this land in large part from the people that lived here but at least we left some reservations governed by treaty. Often those areas were sacred places.

Posted on Sep 7, 2012 2:26:53 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 7, 2012 5:56:24 PM PDT
DarthRad says:
IGS left out the part about various factions of the Israel lobby now taking sides in US national politics and elections with enormous campaign contributions at stake.

It really doesn't matter what happens in Israel between the Jews and the Muslims. If the Muslims weren't trying to kill the Jews all the time, they would be trying to kill each other (i.e., the equally ancient Shia vs. Sunni hatred).

There are even more violent ethnic and religious disputes like this throughout the world - we Americans don't even notice much less hear about it on the news. Rwanda and the never-ending Hindu vs. Muslim killings in India-Pakistan come to mind. Nobody else in the rest of the world tries to buy our politicians in order to get the U.S. involved in their ugly genocidal disputes.

The big problem is that the Israel-Arab dispute has spilled over into the US political scene and we end up with politicians who answer only to Israel and are terrified of ever saying no to Israel because of the extreme efficiency of the Israel lobby.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 7, 2012 4:32:10 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 7, 2012 4:49:22 PM PDT
IGS says:
JMC

You asked why it was a hot topic. That is why. This most recent post doesn't seem to be relevant to your question. Or is there another one you wish to discuss.

It sounds like land management issues and reservations. I doubt that in the ancient times the Egyptians, Hittites, Assyrians, Canaanites, Persians, Turks, Romans, Arabs, and whoever else that land has "belonged" to over the centuries gave to much thought about it. I guess if the did there would be reservations for all of them.

Besides we don't want to start on US land management issues vis a vis the natives. That is 5 or 6 threads right there. We probably need John Lane in here as well because he seems to know about as much of it than anyone else.

Posted on Sep 7, 2012 4:52:04 PM PDT
jpl says:
Why is Israel such a hot topic?

jpl: Because of the U.S.'s geomilitary concerns. We pretend to be such a caring nation, but what have we done for the Syrians? Fear precludes the current president to do anything about it. It could start WWIII.

Anyone who intervenes in the Syrian conflict could cause a World War. Syria is a powder keg waiting to be lit, and nobody has the cojones to do anything about it.

The U.S. hypocritically stands up for those who can help US in the name of humanitarianism. When it comes down to having the nerve to go all-out, we're nowhere to be found. Obama continues to allow Syrians to be slaughtered.

Don't get me wrong. I don't give a damn about Obama or Congress. The U.S. is gone.

The same powers buy the Republicrats and Socialcrats; thus the saying, "Politicians make strange bedfellows."

Follow the money.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 7, 2012 4:54:26 PM PDT
JMC

There is the reality that Israelites/Hebrews/Jews had a kingdom that existed for the most part as conquered territory. Two thousand years is a bit long to maintain a claim to the land.

But they are there and there is no reasonable way to deal with it but to recognize the reality of Israel (recognizing reality is my preferred method for dealing with the world). This however, has never been the preferred method for the cultures of the region, theby the problem.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 7, 2012 4:57:19 PM PDT
You don't want to know

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 7, 2012 6:12:53 PM PDT
because the neocons are going to use it as an excuse for war with iran

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 11, 2012 12:14:59 AM PDT
patrick says:
As abba ebas I think his name was, Israeli foreign minister put it, narrating a history of Israel TV series.....the story of the modern state of Israel..
"it has really been the most incredible adventure"

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 11, 2012 12:23:30 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 11, 2012 12:25:58 AM PDT
patrick says:
the stories of 'slaughter" are substantially twisted spun and exaggerated...they are trying to suck the West in with this whole help help, innocent civilians women and children massacres...all the New Age western humanitarian buzz-words ..
We are being gamed, or attempted to, as we were in Libya..great fun this revolution with actual fighting and force outsourced to the West is.

If you launch an uprising, a civil war, against your government...largely motivated NOT by any bid for liberty as we know it, but driven rather by the same old familiar ethnic , sectarian and internecine dynamics..

how can there possibly NOT be a reaction by force by the govt, and a death toll?
If you or I marched on our own capital in any western country to overthrow the govt...then theyd damn well put us down with force as well.
insofar as he is the legal and recognized government in Syria, Assad is completely entitled to defend his authority and sovereignty, with all forces at his disposal.
Im not sure really why the west is running around even contemplating enabling regime change for the sake of regime change, in this region.
Havent we figured out this Tahir Square democracy hoax yet?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 11, 2012 5:21:54 AM PDT
anne says:
Joseph: <Why is Israel such a hot topic?>

anne: I think Israel is such a hot topic because it does some very unorthodox things. While other countries do unusual things occasionally, Israel does them frequently, so it's consistently being reported on and therefore always in our consciousness.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 11, 2012 5:53:28 AM PDT
Patrick:

The correct name of the Israeli politician cum statesman you mentioned was Abba Eban. One of the better spokespersons and public figures that Israel had produced, it has been said.

Posted on Sep 11, 2012 5:53:54 AM PDT
Sixties fan says:
Tuesday, September 11, 2012
When Global Media Focuses on Christians Under Attack, Who is their Favorite Target?
The global media is quick to jump on Jewish hooliganism against Christians in Israel, but gives short shrift to the rampant and deadly persecution of Christians in the Arab and Islamic world.

David M. Weinberg..
A Citadel Defending Zion..
10 September '12..

The shameful hooligans who vandalized the monastery at Latrun last week raised howls of protest worldwide. The ugly attack was covered extensively in just about every newspaper in the world, with a lot of buzz about the supposed brutalization of Israeli society and a radicalization of religious Jewry.

Without in any way meaning to trivialize or excuse the reprehensible attack, I take offense at the global response to the incident, for a number of reasons. Firstly, there is no sweeping brutalization or radicalization underway in Israeli society. Every responsible Israeli political and religious leader, including the Chief Rabbis, condemned the defacing of the monastery and apologized profusely in the name of Israel and Judaism. Certainly, no-one in Israel encourages such violence, either against Moslems or Christians. 99.99 percent of religious Jews, including the most ultra-nationalist supporters of the settlement enterprise, view anti-Moslem or anti-Christian attacks as abhorrent desecrations of G-d's name.

Secondly, despite a spate of recent so-called `price-tag' attacks (which will speedily come to an end when the police crack the fringe groups involved), Israel remains the standard-bearer for protection of all holy sites and religious groupings in this land, and it maintains freedom of worship for all.

Moreover, Israel is the only country in the Middle East where the number of Christians is rising (at about one percent per year, currently standing at 154,500, amounting to two percent of the population). In fact, the past two decades have seen one of the most significant influxes of Christians into the Holy Land since the Crusades, and it has created a wholly new Christian landscape. For the first time, there is a significant population of non-Arab Christian Israeli citizens, mainly immigrants from the former Soviet Union who, unlike Arabs, are fully assimilated into the Jewish Israeli mainstream. There are many thousands of newly arrived Roman Catholics, Russian Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, and other groups.

Christians in Israel have it good. The percentage of Christian Arabs who graduate high school is higher than that of Muslim or Jewish students, and more than 50 percent of Christian students proceed to study at Israeli universities (including more than 60 percent of Christian Arab women).

But you wouldn't know this from last week's media reports. Instead, you would likely have received the impression that Christians in Israel are under assault by the Jews.

What irks me even more is that few readers anywhere in the world would know from the Western media that Christians indeed are under fierce attack - from Arabs and Muslims across the Middle East, often with government encouragement and support.

The Gatestone Institute has been publishing an important online monthly report about Muslim persecution of Christians throughout Asia and Africa, and it makes for frightening reading. Even a brief summary of the litany of horrors being visited upon Christians by Muslims puts the accusations against Israel in perspective. Over the past half-year alone, repeated attacks on churches have occurred in recent months in Azerbaijan, Egypt, Gaza, Indonesia, Iraq, Kenya, Lebanon, Nigeria, Sudan, Syria, and Tunisia. Christians have been threatened with death and imprisonment for "blasphemy" and apostasy in Algeria, Bangladesh, Egypt, Iran and Pakistan.

The beleaguered Christian community in Lebanon lives painfully under the boot of Hezbollah. The Iraqi Christian community has been reduced by many estimates from one million to half that number. An al-Qaida raid on a Baghdad cathedral last year resulted in the murder of 44 Christian worshipers and two priests.

The tiny Palestinian Christian community in the Hamas-run Gaza strip is also under siege. According to the Greek Orthodox Church in Gaza, at least five Christians have been kidnapped and forced to convert to Islam in recent weeks. Archbishop Alexios, head of the Greek Church in Gaza, is spearheading protests against persecution of Christians and forced conversions. The archbishop has come under sharp criticism from many Palestinians and the Hamas government for daring to speak out about the plight of his community. (Any foreign media interested in covering this story?)

Christians in Syria have fled by the tens of thousands. In March, Islamist militants went door to door in neighborhoods of Homs, expelling local Christians. Of the more than 80,000 Christians who lived in Homs prior to the uprising, approximately 400 remain today. In May, Christian residents of Qusayr received an ominous warning: Either join the Sunni-led opposition against Bashar Assad or leave. Soon after, thousands of Christians fled the town. Concern over the repression of Christians seems to have fallen on deaf ears, drowned out by popular support for the country's opposition in the face of the Assad regime's brutal crackdown.

At least 550 cases over the past five years have been documented in Egypt of the abduction, torture, rape, enslavement or forced to convert to Islam - of Christians. Since March 2011, tens of thousands of Coptic Christians have reportedly left Egypt. Dozens of Copts have killed in anti-Christian riots and churches have been burnt the ground. On New Year's Day 2011, a powerful car bomb targeted a Coptic church in Alexandria, killing 25 parishioners and wounding nearly 100 just as they were finishing midnight Mass. Flyers have been circulated calling for the total genocide of Egypt's Christian Copts, and these flyers openly include names and mosque contact points for those Muslims who wish to collect their rewards for killing Christians.

According to the Egyptian website El Bashayer, Egypt's new Moslem Brotherhood president Muhammad Mursi told a journalist (who interviewed him at the headquarters of the Brotherhood's Freedom and Justice Party when he was running for office, on May 27) that the Copts "need to know that conquest is coming, and Egypt will be Islamic, and that they must pay jizya (financial tribute required of non-Muslims) or emigrate."

In Turkey, the existence of the oldest functioning Christian monastery in the world, the 5th century Mor Gabriel Monastery near the Turkish-Syrian border, is at risk after neighboring Muslims with the support of an MP member of the ruling AKP Party filed a lawsuit accusing the Christians of practicing "anti-Turkish activities" and of illegally occupying land which belongs to Muslim villages. Turkey's highest appeals court ruled that the land that has been part of the monastery for 1,600 years is not its property, and even claimed that the monastery was built over the ruins of a mosque - even though Mohammed was born 170 years after the monastery was founded!

Just this weekend, Iran released Christian Pastor Youcef Nadarkhani after three years of imprisonment on charges of apostasy. He was arrested for converting to Christianity, for questioning the compulsory Islamic education of his children, and for seeking to register a home-based church. He was sentenced to death in 2010. Also this weekend, a Christian girl accused of insulting Islam in Pakistan was released on bail Saturday after spending three weeks in detention, in a case that renewed international criticism of the country's strict blasphemy laws. Hundreds of Christians fled the Islamabad slum where she was arrested, after Muslim neighbors alleged that she had burnt pages containing Islamic inscriptions.

In short, the global media is quick to jump on Jewish hooliganism against Christians in Israel, but gives short shrift to the systematic, rampant, chronic and deadly persecution of Christians in the Arab and Islamic world.

Strangely, the U.S. State Department this year removed the sections covering religious freedom from its Country Reports on Human Rights. This means that the reports do not provide in-depth coverage of what has happened to Christians and other religious minorities over the course of the 2011-2012 "Arab Spring" upheavals.

While the administration has vocally condemned vandal attacks on mosques in the West Bank (where no Muslims died), it had nothing to say when Islamic terrorists bombed Nigerian churches on Easter Sunday, or when the Egyptian military opened fire on unarmed Christians for protesting the nonstop attacks on their churches. Responding to the Egyptian massacre, the White House spokesman said something like: "Now is a time for restraint on all sides." He then went on to offer his hearty congratulations to the new Moslem Brotherhood president of Egypt.

In similar hypocritical vein, Presbyterians in America and Canada have approved divestment campaigns targeting Jewish communities in the West Bank, but they have little to nothing to say about imprisoned pastors in Iran, Islamic acid-attacks on pastors in Uganda, the fire bombings of churches in Gaza, or the mass expulsion of Christians in Syria. I guess their silence can be explained by the fact that those Christians weren't assaulted by Jews.

But again, in my opinion, the media gets the lion's share of the blame for ignoring the persecution of Christians by Muslims. Instead, it is busy focusing on Israel's misdemeanors. Just a few months ago, CBS's Bob Simon produced a masterpiece of mistruth on "60 Minutes" in which he indicted Israel's "occupation" and its security fence for the decline of the Christian population in the West Bank. What Simon doesn't understand or want to understand, is that radical Islam, and not checkpoints or a security fence, remains the main threat to defenseless Christians not only in the Palestinians territories, but across the entire Middle East.

For the past half year, a 38-year-old evangelical pastor from Uganda named Umar Mulinde has been receiving emergency medical treatment at Israel's Sheba Medical Center following an acid attack that severely burned his face and destroyed his right eye. Pastor Mulinde, who converted to Christianity and began teaching favorably about Israel after spending much of his life as a Moslem, was attacked on Christmas Eve in Kampala. The assailants shouted "Allah Akhbar" as they fled the scene. Since then, his wife and children have been threatened by Ugandan Islamists as well. Have you seen any significant international media coverage of this story?

Link: http://davidmweinberg.com/2012/09/10/christians-under-attack/

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 11, 2012 6:02:31 AM PDT
Patrick:

You do have a point about how any Western government would react to an armed insurrection. They would try to put it down with force not only in their own interests, but in the interests of those on the sidelines who would also suffer from the insurrection.

But you must admit that all Western democratic governments enjoy a far greater legitimacy than the vicious Assad regime in Syria or the Qaddafi regime in Libya.
I have often disagreed strongly with the ruling governments in the countries where I have lived in (such as Germany and the US), but I would quickly side with those governments that I disagreed with if they faced an armed uprising. In other words, there's a major difference between disagreeing with a government which has been democratically elected and one that came to power through a bloody coup and has kept itself in power mainly through the threat of continued brutality and bloodshed.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 11, 2012 6:36:48 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 11, 2012 6:37:17 AM PDT
Diva says:
"anne says:

Joseph: <Why is Israel such a hot topic?>

anne: I think Israel is such a hot topic because it does some very unorthodox things. While other countries do unusual things occasionally, Israel does them frequently, so it's consistently being reported on and therefore always in our consciousness. "

How many countries have been attacked by their neighbors as many times as Israel has in the 64 years of it's existence??
Israel is an endangered "species" because it's neighbors are sworn to destroy it. And extreme life threatening situations require extreme defensive measures.
Now if Israel did not comprise of Jews, nobody would know it even exists.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 11, 2012 6:37:38 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 11, 2012 6:40:58 AM PDT
anne says:
Richard: <Abba Eban . . One of the better spokespersons and public figures that Israel had produced>

anne: Erm, he was 33 at the time Israel became a state. Are you sure you don't want to give credit to his birthplace of South Africa or the county that educated him, England?

Reading further, it appears he has a pretty high opinion of himself: "he could foresee himself as the father of the nation of Israel". After all, "he was successful in attaining approval for the partition of Palestine into Jewish and Arab segments from the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine ".

Posted on Sep 11, 2012 6:50:35 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 11, 2012 6:58:08 AM PDT
anne says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 11, 2012 6:56:18 AM PDT
jeffesq613 says:
The primary reason Israel is such a hot topic on Amazon is because of anti-Semites such as anne.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 11, 2012 7:52:38 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 11, 2012 8:04:27 AM PDT
IGS says:
That is why we must leave the region ... entirely. Egypt, Syria, Israel, etc. it is their home, let them fix it. It is not our problem. It never has been. The only place we have any interest is Iraq.

You do not see the French intervening, the Germans, the Russians, the Chinese. It is not our problem. Get out, out. Cut all funding, all subsidies, everything and let them sort it out. They even have a road map for it, Res. 242

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 11, 2012 8:25:21 AM PDT
and goyim haters like svartzie who is a turncoat
supports isreal over usa
almost a fully qualified traitor
maybe that will happen too

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 11, 2012 8:54:17 AM PDT
Diva says:
What kind of nonsense is that?

The fact that he and I support Israel doesn't mean we don't support USA.

BY the way, did you ever learn the purpose of punctuation and capitalization? It's a chore just to pay attention to this drivel, never mind trying to understand it.
Yikes!

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 11, 2012 9:27:06 AM PDT
Diva says:
Who the heck is stopping you of getting out??

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 11, 2012 9:44:53 AM PDT
*anne: I think Israel is such a hot topic because it does some very unorthodox things. While other countries do unusual things occasionally, Israel does them frequently, so it's consistently being reported on and therefore always in our consciousness.

They have been attacked constantly throught their existance as a modern state. The problem is Islam because there seems to be violcence where they meet another culture. We have strife in the Balkans, Russia, Indonesia, Africa and India where Islam meets other cultures.
‹ Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... 16 Next ›
[Add comment]
Add your own message to the discussion
To insert a product link use the format: [[ASIN:ASIN product-title]] (What's this?)
Prompts for sign-in
 


 

This discussion

Discussion in:  History forum
Participants:  34
Total posts:  376
Initial post:  Sep 7, 2012
Latest post:  Nov 18, 2012

New! Receive e-mail when new posts are made.
Tracked by 2 customers

Search Customer Discussions