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The Oswald Innocence Project and the Role of "Experts"

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Initial post: Dec 9, 2012 10:24:04 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 9, 2012 10:28:05 PM PST
It is common for members of the various JFK assassination conspiracy cults to belittle the role and the findings of experts (generally because recognized, trained and experienced experts rarely if ever agree with the claims of conspiracy believers.) It is common to read conspiracy cultists ignore or downplay the findings of medical experts, photographic experts, or balistics experts when these recognized experts announce that there is no evidence of multiple gunmen.

One recent addition to the Conspiracy Cult is called the "Oswald Innocence Project." This site has not received any attention from recognized historians nor from serious scholars interested in the Kennedy assassination because the website is based entirely on one claim: That Lee Harvey Oswald was standing in the doorway of the Texas School Book Depository building at the moment of the assassination. Since the sole claim of this website is that Oswald was in the doorway it follows that if that claim can be disproven (as it has already been done numerous times in the past) then the basis for the existence of that website collapses.

Of course the contradictory evidence proving that it was NOT Oswald in the doorway has been discussed ad naseum since 1963; but the mountain of contradictory evidence is totally ignored by the cult organized around this single disproven claim.

So WHO are the "experts" this website has assembled to argue that all contradictory evidence is wrong and their claim is correct? It should be pointed out that the contradictory evidence is NEVER mentioned on this site. The fact that Lee Oswald himself NEVER once identified himself in the doorway of this photograph is never mentioned. The fact that Billy Lovelady (the person that actually appears in the doorway) pointed to himself immediately when shown the photograph, is not mentioned on the website. The fact that NUMEROUS co-workers of both Lovelady and Oswald ALL agreed (with NO opposing voices) that it was Billy Lovelady in the doorway and NOT Oswald is never mentioined on this website. The fact that Oswald NEVER once, EVER said that he was standing in the doorway watching the motorcade is NEVER mentioned on the website. And it is important to note that this website does NOT allow for opposing views to be expressed. There is not the option to open lines of dialogue nor encourage debate of their claim. In fact on Youtube, where Ralph Cinque (one of the founders of this site) has posted numerous video advertisements (under a false name), any negative or critical comments are immediately deleted and the critic's ISP identification is blocked from any additional comments. So rather than encouraging open discussion of their cultish claim, this group simply makes numerous allegations and then prohibits counter-arguments or criticism.

Let's look at WHO this Oswald Innocence Cult is comprised of and see if ANY of them are qualified to make claims about photographic alterations to the James Altgens photograph.

The following list is taken directly from their website, my comments follow in brackets:

David Wrone, retired Professor of History at the University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point (UWSP), is the honored mentor of the Oswald Innocence Campaign. Professor Wrone offered courses on The Great Books of Western Civilization, Native American history, and the JFK assassination. He is the author of The Assassination of John F. Kennedy: A Comprehensive Historical and Legal Bibliography and of The Zapruder Film: Reframing the JFK Assassination.

[Professor Wrone is one of a handful of respected scholars to be involved in the "Zapruder film was faked" cult as well as the
"Oswald in the doorway" cult. As one can see from his resume, Dr. Wrone is highly trained in historical scholarship, but has never taken a single course in photographic analysis or detection of photographic forgery. Exactly HOW he is qualified to discuss alterations in the Zapruder film or any alleged alteration to the James Altgens photograph is a mystery to serious students of the assassination.]

James H. Fetzer, Ph.D., former Marine Corps officer and McKnight University Professor Emeritus, has chaired or co-chaired four national conferences on the death of JFK. He produced the documentary JFK: The Assassination, the Cover-Up, and Beyond (1994). He also edited Assassination Science (1998), Murder in Dealey Plaza (2000), and The Great Zapruder Film Hoax (2003). He co-edits the on-line journal with John Costella, and his regular column on Veterans Today magazine is one of the most widely read JFK columns in the world.

[Dr. Fetzer is another individual resting on unrelated laurels. While Dr. Fetzer is clearly qualified to discuss the writings of Sartre he is totally unqualified to give any sort of expert opinion on the alteration of the Zapruder film or the alteration of the Altgens photograph. Dr. Fetzer readily admits he has no recognized expertise in photographic analysis of any kind. What he can possibly contribute to this area of examination remains a mystery.]

Ralph C. Cinque has worked in the health field as a chiropractor and health spa operator, and he is the former president of an international physicians group. Ralph has also been an avid student of the JFK assassination for many years, and he has had his articles on the assassination published on Veterans Today and on one of the most widely read alternative news sites in the world.

[Ralph Cinque's training has been in health food, monotored fasting, and chiropractic manipulation of bones. He has written one book dealing with the Vikings and admittedly has no special knowledge of photographic analysis or forgery detection beyond that of any person questioned on any street corner in the United States.]

Donald Miller is a leading cardiovascular surgeon, and he is a professor of cardiac surgery at the University of Washington. He is also a leading nutritional physician. And, he has a longstanding interest in the JFK assassination, borne in-part by his friendship with Dr. Malcolm Perry, who told him the truth about JFK's neck wound seen at Parkland Hospital.

[It appears that Dr. Miller's only qualification is that he knows one of the doctors that worked on President Kennedy. Sadly, the site he has attached his name to doesn't even deal with the medical evidence but rather on alleged photographic alterations to a photograph taken during the shooting. The reason for his status as a 'senior member' remains a total mystery since he has no recognized expertise in the very science on which the entire website is based.]

Richard Hooke has a degree in Cultural Anthropology from UC Santa Barbara, is a former computer systems analyst for Bank of America and is a writer and researcher on the JFK assassination. He has proven astute at figuring out how images were altered and shifted to perpetrate the deception. Richard's ability to communicate with graphics is astounding.

[Again, while Richard Hooke very well may be a good person, and knows a lot about computer systems and cultural anthropology, he has no recognized training in the very area he claims to offer support. His bio boasts that "he has proven astute at figuring out how images were altered and shifted to perpetrate the deception" but there is no mention as to what qualifies him to make such determinations and it is totally unclear as to what he knows about the science behind these alleged alterations. And since no computers were used in the alleged Altgens photo alterations, Richard Hooke's computer background offers no clue as to his alleged "expertise."]

Orlando Martin spent 20 years in the US Navy where he was a firearms and ballistics expert. As a drill instructor, he received the Navy/Marine Corp Achievement Medal for the outstanding performance of his company. He participated in Operation Desert Storm and the ensuing liberation of Kuwait. Orlando is also an avid JFK assassination researcher, and he is the author of JFK: Analysis of a Shooting.

[Again, Mr. Martin is clearly qualified to discuss weapons to some degree but the Oswald Innocence Project says NOTHING about this topic at all. Why Orlando Martin is an honored 'senor member' is baffling to any curious reader.]

Craig Roberts is a former military and police sharpshooter with a long career in the Marines and the Tulsa Police Department. He is the author of Kill Zone: A Sniper Looks at Dealey Plaza Craig is also a certified firearms instructor, helicopter pilot, and black belt in karate. Craig's account of his visit to the Assassination Museum in Dallas, where he got to size up the kill zone, is very gripping. Craig knew immediately that Oswald could not have done it.

[Once again, the background of yet another 'Senior member' has absolutely NOTHING to do with photographic alterations or forgery detection. It is a mystery as to what Craig Roberts could possibly contribute to a study of alleged photographic manipulation of the Altgens photograph. His level of recognized expertise in this area of study is zero.]

Phillip F. Nelson is the author of LBJ: The Mastermind of the JFK Assassination, in which he contends that Johnson was a cardinal instigator of the plot to kill JFK. LBJ conceived of it perhaps as early as 1961 before enlisting others in 1962-63 to handle its design and execution. Phillip explains how Johnson was uniquely positioned to assemble all the key men--from the financiers to the operational planners and the cover-up experts--to complete the job. And it was all done at the expense of a "patsy" named Lee Harvey Oswald.

[Phillip Nelson's theory of LBJ complicity in the JFK assassination is totally irrelevant to the claims that the Altgen's photograph was altered. Phillip Nelson IS an author but he has no specialized knowledge of how photographs were altered, manipulated, or forged. What he is going to contribute to this "study" remains a mystery.]

Peter Janney grew up in Washington D.C. during the Cold War era of the 1950s and 1960s. His father Wistar Janney was a senior career CIA official. The Janney family was intimately involved with many of the Washington political elite that included the family of Mary and Cord Meyer, as well as other high-ranking CIA officials such as Richard Helms, Jim Angleton, Tracy Barnes, Desmond FitzGerald, and William Colby. In his gripping book, Mary's Mosaic, Peter illuminates a magnitude of real-life evil that most of us could never imagine.

[As with EVERY ONE of the previous "senior members" it is puzzling what Peter Janney is going to offer in the way of expert analysis of the alleged alteration of the Altgens photograph.]

Pete Mellor lives in England. He is a retired college lecturer in marine electronics (radio and radar) much like the work Lee Oswald did in Japan. Pete has been an avid student of the JFK assassination since 1990 and has travelled to the US to attend JFK conferences, including the JFK Lancer symposium in Dallas in 2003 to commemorate the 40th anniversary. He is also a member of the Mary Ferrell Foundation. Pete edits the pages of the OIC site.

[This gentlemen's expertise is a mystery as well. Other than attending a handful of conspiracy conferences he appears to have no level of expertise of any kind.]

Larry Rivera was born in Alaska, the son of a career military man who served as CID officer in the Army. He was in Germany on 11/22/63, age 6, and will never forget his father's reaction upon hearing of JFK's murder ("Johnson!") Larry is a Certified Network Engineer and also owns an automotive wholesale parts business. He has made a lifelong study of the JFK assassination, making his first trip to Dealey Plaza in 1991. He attended ASK Symposium in 1993 for the 30th anniversary. He has given interviews about the assassination to Spanish media. Larry has assembled the most complete dossier on Billly Nolan Lovelady ever done.

[Again...this one is a total mystery.]

Roy Schaeffer graduated from Aviation Electronics school in the Marine Corps in 1960. After graduating, he was assigned to the El Toro Air Station in California, just like Oswald. In 1963, he was working as a photo processor at the Dayton Daily News when he personally received the Altgens6 photo-fax. Immediately, he could see signs of alteration, such as "masking" and "opaquing." That began a lifelong commitment to the cause of JFK truth. Roy is the author of 3 books on the JFK assassination (unpublished), plus 9 articles, and his many JFK scrapbooks were donated to the University of Dayton. Roy was among the first researchers to say that it was Oswald in the doorway.

[Other than working for a newspaper in Ohio, Mr. Schaeffer has no expertise above that of any layperson to have worked for any newspaper anywhere in the country. I am unaware of any newspaper photographic positions that require college-level training in detecting forgery or alterations. Therefore it appears Mr. Schaeffer has none of these requirements to speak authoritatively on photographic alteration.]

Dennis Cimino was a pilot and electronics signal specialist in the U.S. Navy. His JFK interest began as a teenager. His step-father was in the military, assigned to Turkey. Right after the killing, he saw the torrent of information being released about Oswald- obviously prepared in advance. He also observed that hours before the assassination, bombers were sortied out in high-alert maneuvers that departed from the usual protocol. Just a coincidence? He didn't think so- and neither did his step-son. Dennis has been working avidly with Jim Fetzer for 9/11 truth and Senator Wellstone truth, and now he joins him here to work for JFK truth.

[It states in his bio that Dennis Cimino knew that the newspaper accounts of Oswald were "obviously prepared in advance" but no information about how he knew this is given. Of course such allegations have been disproven numerous times and there is no evidence that any details of Oswald's life were prepared prior to his murder of President Kennedy. What he plans to contribute to the Oswald Innocence project remains a mystery.]

So as plainly be seen, not a single senior member of the Oswald Innocence Project has ANY recognized training, nor ANY level of expertise that would elevate their opinion above that of a junior high school English teacher or the man who cleaned the carpets in your living room last summer.

Of course this group of 'senior members' will respond by saying that you don't have to be an "expert" to see the obvious, but that is the point...their claims AREN'T obvious. In fact their claims run counter to the entire record of the assassination. Other than their unsupported claims there is not one shred of evidence that Oswald was standing in the doorway of the TSBD at the time of the assassination. EVERYTHING they claim is based on the allegation that the photo taken by James Altgens (known as Altgens5) was stolen, altered, and then sent out to the world in its doctored form to conceal Oswald in the doorway. Therefore IF their claim is valid, one would expect this group to assemble highly-trained photographic experts to offer their qualified opinions of such alterations. However as this discussion has proven, there is not ONE SINGLE photographic expert to agree with ANY of their claims. Granted there IS a chiropractor that helps people fast, there IS a man who's grandfather thought LBJ was behind it, there is a man that worked with computer systems in California, and there IS a man who was friends with a doctor that treated Kennedy after Oswald shot him, what? What photographic insight can they offer to the discussion? Sadly for us...nothing of worth.

Posted on Dec 10, 2012 9:31:13 AM PST
Debunker says:
I find it interesting that they delete any critical comments on that site. I guess the reason they do that is that they fear the "evil" US government will turn its "ops intell" loose on that site and make the "experts" look like a joke. Sadly, the "experts" can't see they need no help to be made to look like jokes.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 13, 2012 9:52:50 AM PST
Next year will be a half-century since the death of JFK. Believe it or not, more than 50,000 pages of JFK assassination-related documents are being withheld in full. And an untold number of documents have been partially withheld, or released with everything interesting blacked out.

Since the government and the big media keep telling us there was no conspiracy, and that it was all Lee Harvey Oswald acting on his own, why continue the cover up?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 13, 2012 9:58:10 AM PST
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 13, 2012 3:26:39 PM PST
Debunker says:
For nearly 50 years folks like you have been trying, and failing, utterly, to prove a conspiracy in the JFK assassination. Because there's nothing there. Based on this post, it looks like you're going to continue to beat that dead horse for the next 50 years.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 13, 2012 8:29:41 PM PST
SA, what is your source that there are still 50,000 pages being withheld? And what makes you believe these records are hiding something? People said this before the Freedom Of Information Act of 1966 and the conspiracy kooks of the 1960s were convinced that after 1967 (when the law went into affect) that there would be a FLOOD of incriminating documents released that would prove a conspiracy. What happened when the documents began to be released? NO EVIDENCE of any conspiracy emerged. None. So then the kooks switched their tune to the fact that the Zapruder film hadn't been revealed to the public THAT would contain evidence of a conspiracy. Then in April of 1975 the Zapruder film was released to the public and what did it reveal? NOTHING that proved a conspiracy. In fact it the Zapruder film is SO CONVINCING of a single gunman that panicked conspiracy nuts now are forced to claim the Zapruder film has been faked. So yet one more pot-o-gold at the end of the rainbow didn't pan out. Then it was the release of the autopsy materials that the conspiracy kooks said would PROVE a conspiracy, but after the HSCA's hearings when the autopsy photographs and X-rays were released what did they reveal? Evidence of ONE GUNMAN firing from Oswald's location...nothing else. In fact the autopsy materials were SO convincing of a single, rear gunman that the panicked conspiracy kooks now were forced to save face by claiming that the autopsy photographs and X-rays had also been faked. Then the kooks began harping on the ARRB records that they were convinced would reveal evidence of a conspiracy, but after the ARRB released their millions of pages of previously classified documents what did they discover? NOTHING. No evidence was in them either supporting the superstition of a second gunman.

Now in the pool of unreleased documents there are only allegedly 50,000 pages left. A couple of drops of water remaining in an already nearly drained olympic-sized swimming pool and spiritual architect is still running after that pot-o-gold at the end of the proverbial rainbow HOPING beyond HOPE that there will be evidence of a conspiracy.

You don't get it do you SA. You have been duped by the conspiracy cult into believing that there is gold at the end of the rainbow. There never is any such gold. From 1963 until 2012 not one speck of evidence has emerged to support claiims of a conspiracy. Get over it. Your side lost LONG ago.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 14, 2012 10:50:17 AM PST
My side lost long ago? You are so cluless.

I asked that question about the documents because I was interested in what someone like you would think could be in the papers that were being held until 2017.

I could have asked you a question, like "Are you saying Oswald was involved in the Chicago assassination plan on November 2, or that he was involved in the plan in Tampa on November 18?"

But you would probably deny that any such plans existed, just like you deny everything else that steers us away from a single shooter. But I did not because I really do not care what you think about Oswald. Your ideas of the Zap film and everything else involved has shown me you live in a fantasy land.

If my side had lost no one would be talking about Oswald anymore. And neither would you.

You are the one constantly making new threads and keeping old ones going on the subject, trying to prove Oswald was the only one. You are fighting a losing battle. This Oswald question will never go away in your lifetime.
Get over it.
Let it go.
Find a new hobby.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 14, 2012 10:56:31 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 14, 2012 10:58:34 AM PST
Debunker says:
Actually your side "Lost it" years ago. 49 years of a fruitless attempt to prove a non-existent conspiracy. And we understand that the Oswald question will "never go away". There were always be dim bulbs who bring it up, despite the complete lack of evidence that anyone else other than Oswald pulled the trigger that day.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 14, 2012 12:26:32 PM PST
You are so clueless about the evidence in this case. There are MANY plots to murder ANY president at ANY given time, that doesn't mean that they are all interconnected. Of course Oswald wasn't involved in a Chicago plot or a Miami plot to murder Kennedy. If YOU think he was then I say the two words that conspiracy nutsd HATE to hear: Prove It. There is not one speck, not one scrap, not one scintilla of evidence that Oswald was involved with ANYONE else in this assassination. YOU certainly haven't produced any evidence that he was, and you can't produce any evidence now. You will simply change the subject and bring up another topic. If there was any such evidence of multiple shooters it would ahve emerged LONG ago. YOU don't know of any such evidence do you Spir. Arch.? of course you don't.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 14, 2012 12:33:15 PM PST
Spiritual Arch wrote: "Your ideas of the Zap film and everything else involved has shown me you live in a fantasy land."

My views on the Zapruder film are that it is 100% authentic and that no tampering has taken place with it? Who agrees with me? EVERY recognized photographic expert to ever examime it.

You believe it is an altered film with evidence of changes. Who agrees with you? Not one single photographic expert ont he planet, the Only people that agree with your silly beliefs are OTHER conspiracy nuts with no photographic training. The fact that you consider mainstream science and photographic examination a "fantasy land" is proof positive that you checked out of reality long ago and don't even understand how science works to prove (or disprove allegations.)

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 28, 2012 4:45:14 AM PST
Why continue the coverup?

It has been proven that a conspiracy killed JFK.

There are two ways to measure the time between shots in the Kennedy assassination. Since they both give the same times, then that means they are both valid. Starting there, the whole house of cards hiding the truth rapidly collapses leaving the leaders of the coup that killed JFK naked and exposed.

0.7 Seconds to Conspiracy, Timing the Shots that Killed JFK

Posted on Dec 28, 2012 4:55:05 AM PST
Am I missing something?

Is this about discrediting the Zapruder film or supporting.

To my eyes there seems to be two distinct motions of Kennedys head, one forward and one backward.

I haven't been keeping up with the latest stuff, so what is the current thinking on this?

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 28, 2012 5:09:50 AM PST
Debunker says:
This guy is just peddling his book. Nothing new here. His claims were debunked years ago.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 28, 2012 5:10:53 AM PST
Debunker says:
" Starting there, the whole house of cards hiding the truth rapidly collapses leaving the leaders of the coup that killed JFK naked and exposed".

FOr nearly 50 years the conspiracy kooks have been making this claim with each new "startling discovery".

It hasn't happened yet. Nor will it ever happen. Since it's a bunch of nonsense.

Posted on Dec 28, 2012 5:39:52 AM PST
Oh OK, bye.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 28, 2012 9:52:22 AM PST
the guy who actually shot jfk wrote a book about it

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 28, 2012 2:15:39 PM PST
Debunker says: figures you'd believe something that stupid.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 28, 2012 2:38:28 PM PST
dont believe anything except that he wrote a book
cant find it to read

Posted on Dec 29, 2012 5:41:05 AM PST
Pokernut says:
So, why did Oswald leave those steps? - not AFTER the assassination, but DURING. It certainly wasn't to get a Coke. Was he afraid for his own safety? No. Being on that landing is like being in a cave, and I've been there. He was surrounde...d by building on three sides. The shooting was going on not just down the street, but down the hill, and it's a pretty steep hill. If there was any danger from standing in that doorway, the others would have reacted accordingly. So, we can forget about that.

But, after we toss it, we're left with nothing- no reason why Oswald should depart those steps during the shooting. And it's that vacuum that leads us to one inescapable conclusion: he was told to go to the lunchroom.

Start by looking at it from the conspirators' point of view. We know for a fact that they allowed Oswald to wander around freely in the 45 minutes between the start of his lunch-break and the start of the shooting. Why did they do that? They had to know it would work against them. Every contact that Oswald made, every observance of him by others weakened their story- and severely. Unwittingly, he was establishing an alibi for himself. So, why didn't they direct him to lay low, to hide somewhere, to stay out of sight?

The answer is that it was easier said than done. What excuse could they give him for it? And what if it backfired? What if he connected the dots? What if he panicked? What if he ran? What if he told somebody? That would have ruined everything. They decided that it was better for them to take their chances and let him wander around freely- business as usual. Not take any chances on upsetting him. And as far as damaging sightings of him by others, they fully expected to be able to control the eye-witnesses, and more important, the coverage of the eye-witnesses. It would be easy enough to say that somebody was mistaken or, at least, wrong about the time. And they did just that-with Carolyn Arnold and Vickie Adams- to name two.

All they needed from Oswald was that he show up, act normal (at least, don't make any scenes BEFORE the shooting) and then afterwards, be found in a spot that was accessible to the 6th floor. And I can't exaggerate how important that last thing was. Everything depended on it. If Oswald was found in a spot that was too distant from the 6th floor for him to have reached in the time available, it was all over. It was curtains. The frame-up would have failed. Never mind failed- it never would have gotten off the ground.

And if they lost Oswald as the patsy, I don't know that they had a backup. Do you? Imagine if the "crime of the century" went unsolved. Imagine if they had to sell the idea that there was a lone-nut assassin, but that he got away. How would that have gone down? Who would believe it? Would you? It would have been an unmitigated disaster for them.

And consider all the other possible outcomes. Oswald only had to remain where he was and not move a muscle. Baker would have passed him on the steps going up. And whether Oswald would have registered in Baker's consciousness is unknowable, but Baker was sure to register in Oswald's consciousness. So, doing nothing was all Oswald had to do to save himself and thwart their evil plan.

Or, what if he went down Elm Street to the railroad crossing? Lots of people did just that. Shelley and Lovelady did it. What if Oswald had joined them? Or just went by himself? How were they going to pin the assassination on him then?

And there are other possibilities, like his just going home without re-entering the building, and every one of them would have exonerated him. But, where was the very best place for him to go from the conspirator's standpoint? It was the 2nd floor lunchroom. They couldn't send him any higher than that because obviously the assassin wouldn't stop anyplace higher than that. The assassin would have wanted to get back to a public area as quickly as possible, and that meant no higher than the 2nd floor. And the lunchroom was a great spot to settle because there were vending machines, phones, and places to sit. What could be more reasonable than to be in the lunch room during the lunch break? But, just as important, it was right next to the stairwell coming down from the 6th floor. So, it was very accessible. It was the ultra-best spot for Oswald to be found.

Now, think about those conspirators- the kind of people that they were. Do you think they were the kind of people who would just cross their fingers, say a prayer, and hope that Oswald would go to the lunchroom at the crucial moment? Or, do you think they were the kind of people who, after investing so much in setting up Oswald, which probably began as soon as he returned from Russia, would at the crucial moment, forget about luck, fate, or Oswald's whim, and secure the necessary outcome through decisive action? Well, if you think it was the former, then you don't know them. That is the one thing they would NOT have left to chance. They directed Oswald to that lunchroom; they told him to go there; and you can take that to the bank.

Is this really such a wild idea? Well, let me ask you this: Do you think he had a hankering for a movie and that's why he went to the Texas Theater? Obviously, he was told to go there to rendezvous with somebody, and that's where they planned to trap him, hoping that it would result in a firefight and his immediate demise. Well, if you can see that he was directed to the Texas Theater, then can't you see that he was also directed to the lunchroom? Of the two, the lunchroom was much more important.

What did they tell him? What reason did they give him for going to the lunchroom. I don't know. I could speculate, but I am not going to. It would be frivolous of me to try.

Who specifically told him to go to the lunchroom? I don't claim to know, but I will stick my neck out here. I think it was probably Bill Shelley.

I should do a whole piece on Bill Shelley, and perhaps I will. But for now, I just want you to think about what Oswald said: Lee Oswald told Detective Fritz that he was "out with Bill Shelley in front".

Why did he name Shelley? There were others he could have named. And, why did he stop at Shelley? Why didn't he name other people as well?

I think it's reasonable to assume that he had a mental state of awareness about Shelley. He had a focus on Shelley. When he said he was "out with Bill Shelley ", it revealed a concentration on Bill Shelley in his consciousness which may have come from an interaction with Bill Shelley. Now, I realize that is just a supposition, but I think it's a reasonable one.

Bill Shelley was the head of the "Miscellaneous Department" at the Texas Book Depository. It was a company which distributed schoolbooks for little kids. Books came in; book went out; and that was it. What could they possibly need a Miscellaneous Department for? Miscellaneous what?

Bill Shelley was very tight with the owner of the building: David Byrd. Byrd was an oil man and an industrialist. He was in tight with all kinds of movers and shakers, including Lyndon Johnson. He was an ultra-right-winger, a Cold Warrior, and the founder of the Civil Air Patrol. Do you know who was in the Civil Air Patrol? Bill Shelley, David Ferries, and Barry Seal, to name three. Do you know who else was in the Civil Air Patrol? Lee Harvey Oswald.

The official story is that Mrs. Ruth Paine (whose husband, Michael Paine was the VP of Bell Helicopter which soon after the assassination received a huge contract from LBJ for Vietnam, sending the stock soaring) was having afternoon tea with the neighborhood ladies, and one of the good madams mentioned that her son or her nephew had just been hired on at the Texas Book Depository and that they were looking for more workers. And supposedly, Ruth passed that information on to Marina who told Lee.

Well, If you believe that cock and bull story, you have got the mind of a 6 year old, and I say that with all due apologies to 6 year olds.
Oswald was gravitated from New Orleans to Dallas precisely to land at the Texas School Book Depository, and the only ones who can't see it are the lone-nutters. The little old ladies had nothing to do with it except to dress up the story. It was orchestrated from above.

And if you don't think so, then for you, it's just a coincidence that Oswald should land at a place that involved his CAP buddies. Fancy that. Small world.

My friends: claiming "coincidence" is just a fancy way to lie.

But, let's get back to Bill Shelley. That morning, he led a crew in laying flooring on the 6th floor. Huh. Same floor where it all went down. Fancy that.

You know, I have seen crews of men laying floor. I have seen it several times. But, I have never seen it where the foreman of the job was wearing a dress shirt and tie and suit jacket. And that is how Bill Shelley went to work that day.

But wait: he was the head of the Miscellaneous Department at this company which distributed schoolbooks for little kids. What the heck does that have to do with laying flooring?

This was a company that was renting the building from David Byrd-the big industrialist/oil man friend of LBJ. Aren't structural changes like flooring made by the owner and not the tenant?

And I wonder what exactly they meant? Because, they weren't building a floor; there had to be a floor there. So, were they removing old flooring and laying down new flooring? Or were they laying a new layer of flooring down on top of the old layer? What? And, imagine how cluttered that floor would have been. But, we've seen pictures of the 6th floor. The newsreels gave us quite a tour of the 6th floor. Did you see old and new flooring lying around in any of that footage?

Here is a picture that gives you a good long view of the 6th floor at the time. Do you see any evidence of floor-laying?

But, the more important question is: why would a guy whose job it was to oversee the distribution of little kids' schoolbooks be diverted into leading a crew of workmen laying flooring and for him to direct this job in a suit and tie? It's strange. I know it's not strange to you, Backes, but it's strange to me.

Remember: they did not try to control Oswald in the lead-up to the assassination because they didn't want to upset him; they didn't want to throw him off-kilter; and most importantly: they didn't want to incriminate themselves. Surely, they hoped he would get killed during his arrest. But, they also knew that he might not and that he might undergo quite a lot of interrogation before he could be properly killed. That meant that they had to make sure he couldn't incriminate the important people that he knew in the US Intelligence community. And that is why there was very little they could tell him about what was really going on.

But, when it came to the crucial issue of his movement and placement after the assassination, they HAD to take control of that. Because without that, they had nothing.

Did Oswald tell the police that it was Shelley (or someone else) who told him to go to the lunchroom? Who is to say he didn't? He underwent 13 hours of interrogation. Do you know how much of it we have? Zero. Not one minute's worth. They not only didn't record it; they didn't even write it down. There is no written transcript of what he was asked and what he said. And the explanation for this awful lapse of proper police procedure? None given.

You should read The Spider's Web: The Texas School Book Depository and the Dallas Conspiracy by William Weston, which is based to a great extent on the probing of journalist Elize Glaze. Here is the abstract to the booklet:

Journalist Elize Glaze compared the Texas School Book Depository to a spider that can leave its web and stalk its prey. This article posits the view that behind Glaze's metaphor was a weapons and narcotics smuggling operation moving under the guise of schoolbooks. Controlled by ultraconservatives, the depository harbored spies, who infiltrated left-wing organizations. It also had law enforcement agents, who monitored and controlled the drug traffic within the city of Dallas. These operatives acted at the instigation of the national security establishment. When President Kennedy threatened to break up that establishment, a plot developed to assassinate him. The schoolbook workers became involved in the plot, when they relocated into the seven-story building that overlooked a 120-degree turn at Elm and Houston Streets. The turn made the President an easy target, because it slowed his limousine down to a crawl. After the assassination, the victors of the coup imposed extra security measures at the schoolbook depository in order to protect ongoing smuggling activities.

Could that be the miscellaneous activity that Bill Shelley was involved in? Well, let's see: during World War II, he worked in Army Intelligence. He then joined the CIA from its very commencement in 1947. Then, 16 years later, we are supposed to believe that he was content to distribute little kids' schoolbooks?

Do you know how long the Texas School Book Depository was located at 411 Elm St.before the assassination? 3 months. They moved in there in August 1963.

And that makes the floor-laying even more strange. They had just moved in, so wouldn't they have worked out the flooring with the landlord from the start? "You know, we like the building, but that flooring on the 6th floor is really shot. Could you get it replaced?"

Elize Glaze reported that Bill Shelley was arrested after the assassination and for the assassination and that he admitted to being arrested. It's not part of the official police record. What did Oswald say during those 13 lost hours? Did Oswald say something about Shelley besides the fact that he was out front with him?

Anyway, I am as confident that Oswald was directed to the 2nd floor lunchroom as I am that he was directed to the Texas Theater. And my #1 suspect for the person who directed him to the lunchroom is Bill Shelley.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 29, 2012 8:21:04 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 29, 2012 8:22:46 AM PST
Jeff Marzano says:
Mark S. Cinque says:

[Anyway, I am as confident that Oswald was directed to the 2nd floor lunchroom as I am that he was directed to the Texas Theater.]

I didn't read everything you said but I agree with you.

Oswald was set up to not only take the blame for the assassination but to get killed in the process.

After the assassination they had an Oswald look alike murder officer Tippit in cold blood. This would have put the police into 'shoot on site' mode since at that point they thought Oswald was a cop killer as well as a presidential assassin.

Oswald followed the orders he was given, not realizing that those orders were intended to get him killed by the police in the movie theater which is almost what happened.

But something went wrong.

When Oswald was taken into police custody alive this created a major catastrophe for the conspirators. If Oswald had been alowed to start talking the history of these United States would have turned out very differently indeed. They had to silence Oswald immediately and at all costs.

Enter Jack Ruby, a two bit strip club owner and mafia lackey. Ruby throws his miserable life away by somehow shooting Oswald right in police headquarters.

Why did Ruby do it ? Ask Vincent Bugliosi, author of the 1,600 page door jam entitled 'Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy'. Vincent says Ruby was an all American, red blooded patriot who 'loved JFK'.

And so it continues. Those who say it wasn't a conspiracy continue to defend cop killers and mass murderers who sent 60,000 American kids over to that Hell hole called Viet Nam to die for nothing.

Hypocrites like Lyndon Johnson and J. Edgar Hoover for example.

The Men Who Killed Kennedy (1988)

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 2:08:02 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Dec 30, 2012 2:09:53 AM PST
Pokernut says:
Jeff! Welcome aboard! Your writing was a sight for sore eyes. Every word you wrote is true, and you packed a lot in there. It is certainly chilling that they tabled Osawld's entire 13 hours of interrogation. No recording, no transcript, nothing. And I perceive a transition in Oswald's awareness of what was going on.

In his first exchange with reporters, he said: "They're taking me in because I lived in the Soviet Union." Don't you think he really believed that? I do. And if that's what he believed, then he did not- at that point- think he had been set up. But later on, he said, "I'm just a patsy!" Big difference. And who knows what he said after that. He may have sung like a canary. It's no wonder they called in Jack Ruby to silence him.

Thanks for showing up, Jeff. You know, it occurs to me that with these "ops" who swarm here, there may be less of them than we think. It could be one or two guys with multiple accounts and multiple styles. Recently, I caught one of them masquerading as a longtime blogger by the name of "Patrick Collins" from England. I've done a lot of battles with Patrick Collins, and he's a royal pain in the butt, but he's more refined and educated, and not swarthy and street-tough, like some kid from Baltimore. But, that's exactly how "Patrick Collins" started sounding- and that's after years of the other. So, I think they got their wires crossed.

Posted on Dec 30, 2012 10:30:03 AM PST
Pokernut says:
What a difference 90 minutes make!
One and a half little hours ....

So, on the right, it's the same guy 90 minutes later? That's what they have been telling us for 49 years.

But, on the right, he's got a rich, complex, geometric shirt pattern while on the left (Doorman) his shirt pattern is plain, bland, and consistent. And what it is consistent with is the shirt of Lee Harvey Oswald.

But, on the right at the police station, why is his shirt all cinched up? It's about as cinched up as a Nehru jacket. If it were cinched up any tighter, it would be restricting blood flow in his carotid arteries, and he'd faint.

And, be clear: we are seeing the ENTIRE left side of his shirt on the right. Nothing is missing. Yet, on Doorman, the left side of his shirt is all pushed over. It's wide open. It's different! It's very different! And if you try to tell me that he buttoned up, then you have to explain this:

The above was supposed to be the exact same moment in time and space. And, I do believe that a man cannot be both buttoned and unbuttoned at the exact same moment in time and space.

As an aside, he looks about 30 pounds heavier on the left, has a face like Robert DeNiro, and has an arm like an Olympic weightlifter. How heavy was that flooring he was laying that morning?

People, wake up! They've been efffffing with us for 49 years! All these Loveladys can't be legit! Stop fighting it! It's fabrication- the fabricating of Lovelady as Doorman. Doorman was Oswald! Only Oswald's shirt flared open like that in a cavernous divide. That was no ordinary shirt. What, do you think he picked it up at JC Penny? It was some kind of weird foreign shirt, probably out of Russia.

Tough break, conspirators! Oswald beat you just by getting dressed that morning! Weird Russian shirt! Deformed, vee-shaped t-shirt. His whole outfit was as personal and distinctive as Superman's uniform or Batman's cape. Give it up! It's Oswald in the doorway! And the word is spreading.

In reply to an earlier post on Dec 30, 2012 5:02:41 PM PST
Debunker says:
Laughable nonsense.
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Discussion in:  History forum
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Initial post:  Dec 9, 2012
Latest post:  Dec 30, 2012

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