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Can liberal American Jews still support Modern Israel? - the country has changed and is not what you think it is anymore.


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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2011 9:32:02 AM PST
L. King says:
You opposed Syria's invasion of Lebanon and 30 year occupation? Wow!

What's your take on Hiz b'Allah suppressing the investigation of the murder of Rafiq Hariri?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2011 9:33:03 AM PST
L. King says:
Flash forward to 2011. Richard Goldstone has retracted the conclusions of the report and Hamas has admitted casualty lists of its fighters that approximate that of the IDF.

"fearmongerer" would be a better name for you.

As a liberal I've come to the conclusion that its time to pressure the Palestinians to come to a settlement. Enough with Arab "pride" and "humiliation" - you can only suck that teat of sympathy for so long until it runs dry. I'm tired of the bloody whingers.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2011 9:34:45 AM PST
jeffesq613 says:
And here we have a true believer in anti-Semitic conspiracy theories that were debunked long ago. So many loons in these fora.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2011 9:38:08 AM PST
jeffesq613 says:
Maybe someone can teach you how to use this program.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2011 9:39:20 AM PST
LOL! I never bothered to look at his profile page. That's just great! But highly improbable. Unless the Keystone Kops are Orthodox Jews, who have established a beit din, that would confirm an Israel bashing Muslim.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2011 9:42:40 AM PST
bobby says:
Oppose Israel's Invasion of Lebanon. Wanton destruction of the
infrastructure of Southern Lebanon. Seeding million toy-like mines
from the air.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2011 10:01:52 AM PST
L. King says:
Massacre of Damour of Lebanese Christians by Arafat's PLO.

The PLO turned Lebanon into a battlefield and sectarian violence of Druz, Christians, Shiah and Sunni tore the country apart.

Yes, Israel got involved to keep the war from spilling over, but so did Syria and Iran. And Israel is out of Lebanon.

Either Hiz b'Allah or Syria killed Rafiq Harriri - probably both.

Incendies

Posted on Nov 18, 2011 10:15:39 AM PST
jeffesq613 says:
Good to see we have yet another Israel-bashing thread open and active in this forum.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2011 11:43:52 AM PST
truthsetter says:
Goldstone retracted a single paragraph from an entire report and even that was an act of weakness under massive polticial pressure.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2011 11:46:18 AM PST
truthsetter says:
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Posted on Nov 18, 2011 11:51:18 AM PST
truthsetter says:
As I suspected NONE of the superb quality resources and sources that I have provided or suggested have been addressed or shown any respect by the usual mob of vile Zionists for whom civilized knowledge and moral and ethical honesty are a total alien set of human standards.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2011 12:24:55 PM PST
jeffesq613 says:
One man's act of weakness is another man's act of conscience.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2011 12:26:37 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 18, 2011 12:28:28 PM PST
jeffesq613 says:
Another brain-dead pro-Palestinian who measures morality by body counts. Let the savages you champion stop targeting innocent people for death and no Palestinians would need to be killed.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2011 12:27:39 PM PST
jeffesq613 says:
<the superb quality resources and sources that I have provided or suggested>

LOL! As if no one's seen the usual propaganda before.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2011 12:31:21 PM PST
"...vile Zionists for whom civilized knowledge and moral and ethical honesty are a total alien set of human standards."

Ahh! Bilious rhetoric! Always a favorite of hateful bigots.

Posted on Nov 18, 2011 12:35:46 PM PST
L. King says:
In the last 3 weeks 11 Palestinian terrorists were killed while engaged in launching missiles against Israel. One Israeli civilian was killed by a rocket that hit his apartment. The latter case was murder, the former constituted legitimate self defense.

Ratio: 1:0 in favour of Palestinian murderers. You'd better get yourself another label - the one you are using can only be interpreted in a negative manner - as one who pravada-like makes things up and "sets" his lies as if they are the truth.

Personally I'd like to see organizations such as Islamic Jihad and the Izzd al Din Qassam brigades disbanded and have the Palestinians return to the the negotiating table. As a liberal I'm in favour of peace and I'd support a peaceful Palestinian State with a capitol in Ramallah, where it is now. Or Beit Hanoun, Gaza City or Damascus - where ever Hamas' leaders are gathered today. Or both.

"Some have suggested that it was absurd to expect Hamas, an organization that has a policy to destroy the state of Israel, to investigate what we said were serious war crimes. It was my hope, even if unrealistic, that Hamas would do so, especially if Israel conducted its own investigations. At minimum I hoped that in the face of a clear finding that its members were committing serious war crimes, Hamas would curtail its attacks. Sadly, that has not been the case. Hundreds more rockets and mortar rounds have been directed at civilian targets in southern Israel....

In the end, asking Hamas to investigate may have been a mistaken enterprise. So, too, the Human Rights Council should condemn the inexcusable and cold-blooded recent slaughter of a young Israeli couple and three of their small children in their beds.

I continue to believe in the cause of establishing and applying international law to protracted and deadly conflicts....Regrettably, there has been no effort by Hamas in Gaza to investigate the allegations of its war crimes and possible crimes against humanity."

Richard Goldstone, Washington Post

I find it incredible that Goldstone did not know that this would have been the result. Liberals, even hopeful American liberals, are not entirely naive, nor are they as incapable of knowing the truth as you are.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2011 12:42:04 PM PST
L. King says:
An alien set of ethics to you, perhaps. But not to British Colonel Richard Kemp:

"The IDF did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare"

or Richard Goldstone:

"The allegations of intentionality by Israel were based on the deaths of and injuries to civilians in situations where our fact-finding mission had no evidence on which to draw any other reasonable conclusion. While the investigations published by the Israeli military and recognized in the U.N. committee's report have established the validity of some incidents that we investigated in cases involving individual soldiers, they also indicate that civilians were not intentionally targeted as a matter of policy."

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2011 1:04:37 PM PST
Diva says:
Another "brainiac" on the loose.

This one even thinks his sources are "superb".

The pompous "truthsetter" sets nothing but nonsense.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2011 1:32:42 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 18, 2011 1:35:16 PM PST
Skriker says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2011 1:52:33 PM PST
Diva says:
Get off your soapbox.

Israel is not targeting innocents, the Palestinians do.

May be if you can convince your savage buds to stop killing Israelis, the peace will be instantaneous.

People like you don't solve the problem, they ARE the problem.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2011 1:53:47 PM PST
C. Renkin says:
DarthRad,

To clarify my previous post:

Should Israeli Jews improve their ties to liberal Jewish groups in the US which are dying out, or the more vibrant Conservative/Orthodox communities which are stable or growing in numbers? In the short term, they need to reach out to ALL US Jewish groups. Whether they should try to appease the US liberal Jews to their point (in their view) of making dangerous concessions, is another question.

If Jews want to influence Israel directly, they should live there. If many liberal Jews left Israel because of the Oslo breakdown in 2000, that is indeed a sad thing for their cause. (I think even more Jews left Israel after the 1973 debacle, IMHO.) Meanwhile, their Russian, Orthodox, and/or Zionist compatriots moved there and became "fruitful and multiplied." No wonder Israel has moved back to the "right" (although not back to the Shamir rhetoric that the West Bank was part of Israel). It's an issue of numbers and bodies.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2011 1:59:43 PM PST
Rachel says:
Shabbat Shalom Diva;

Good to see you here.

There is nothing better to say. All has been said by all of us and they will NOT change their mind.

Rachel

Posted on Nov 18, 2011 1:59:53 PM PST
L. King says:
So which is worse? The Arab treatment of the Palestinians or the treatment of the Palestinian leadership of the Palestinians? Are they both equally morally reprehensible, or do you have some sort of a cosmic scale that sorts them out? Is there no difference at all between Hamas' call for genocide and the PA's demand for ethnic cleansing - do you really believe they are the same, or are they both evil?

You've fallen into the trap of hand waiving moral equivalence and the myth of a cycle of violence. You just too quickly to your invalid conclusions. I don't see jeffesq613 as referring to anyone other than those who intentionally fire rockets at civilian targets and those who support them in doing so.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2011 2:07:25 PM PST
Diva says:
Hi Rachel,

It would seem truthsetter got tired of setting the "truth" so now he is skriker.

These characters change names faster than changing underwear.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 18, 2011 2:11:04 PM PST
"You can rationalize it to yourself, but you cannot justify it without also justifying the actions of the "savages". "

And yet, that's exactly what you are doing.
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Discussion in:  History forum
Participants:  52
Total posts:  938
Initial post:  Nov 13, 2011
Latest post:  Dec 21, 2012

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