Customer Discussions > History forum

Nazis in a good light...


Sort: Oldest first | Newest first
Showing 1-25 of 1000 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Jul 20, 2012 10:25:48 AM PDT
Yes, this screams to be misunderstood.

Hitler and the Nazis were widly popular and admired until the start of the war and having the oven opened seered them a metaphysical evil. Like a messy divorice we ask what did we ever see in them...

I think that the history is so vivid that we often lose how and why they were so popular and were seen as they were before the war. They inspired ideas that made millions sacrifice their lives.

Had Germany been a living hell it is not likley that so many would have given their lives or fought so hard for their ideals. We saw that when we went after Sadam Husseins Iraq.

I think some movie with the intent of showing the Nazis as positive can be far more instructive. We often forget of how the Nazic consolodated power and their increase of government benefits. Lebens born, national health care and focusing on national health and physical actitivy. This idea that Germany could be unified and what kind of social conditions existed before Hitler.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 20, 2012 11:22:47 AM PDT
John M. Lane says:
Germany was unified by Otto von Bismarck, Kaiser Wilhelm II's Prime Minister, Joseph M. Creaney. Until that time, 1870, Germany was a "geographical expression", not a politically unified state.

Prussia's victory over France prompted "the Germanies" to unify under Prussia's king. He became the Emperor of "the Second Reich" as the German Empire was then known.

The Nazis had nothing to do with the unification of Germany, nor can I see them "in a good light." Like their Fuhrer, Adolf Hitler, they were evil.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 20, 2012 11:31:11 AM PDT
*The Nazis had nothing to do with the unification of Germany, nor can I see them "in a good light." Like their Fuhrer, Adolf Hitler, they were evil.

I fully understand that but they did inspire a strong following in the country. Looking back we see the pure evil but the point I want to make is that it didn't seem like that at the time for the people attracted to the movement. If we don't understand how aspcets were attractive or the thinking and logic we are in danger of it happening again.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 20, 2012 11:32:57 AM PDT
Well of course the Nazi's put out some good programs. They were one of the first countries (if not then the first) to ban vivisection in 1933. Animal rights and conservation were important to them. Oddly so, in light of their attitude towards gays, Jews and other people they considered to be enemies.

They hated physical weakness, and pushed physical fitness and nutrition in public school. Tobacco addiction was a sign of weakness to them and they pushed against smoking.

Welfare programs were instituted. How as these programs paid for? From funds stolen from alleged enemies of Hitler's regime. Jews. And the Volkswagon was designed as Hitler wanted an economical car for middle class Germans to drive. And medical advances. While the Nazi's abhorred vivisection, doing the same thing to children in concentration camps was considered fine.

So yeah, I guess they did some 'good'. The world paid a huge price for it too. Next time thank a Jew or other victim for any good brought on by the Nazi's. Even the VW came at human cost.

Posted on Jul 20, 2012 11:33:47 AM PDT
Il Duce made the trains run on time (supposedly) does that mean the brownshirts were good guys? Khaddafi kept the Islamists at bay, should we remember him fondly?

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 20, 2012 11:39:39 AM PDT
*So yeah, I guess they did some 'good'. The world paid a huge price for it too. Next time thank a Jew or other victim for any good brought on by the Nazi's. Even the VW came at human cost.

I don't want to say they did good although we did learn a great deal from experiement that can be done in a free society. A certian kind of person is drawn to Nazi ideas and no doubt that they appeald to those kinds of people at that time. Not all Germans were hefty thugs looking for someone to hate. What was it about them that attracted people other than disafected young people. What is it about Hilter that 1/3 of Germans decided they could support him.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 20, 2012 11:46:11 AM PDT
Mystére says:
Creaney typed, "Yes, this screams to be misunderstood."

So why do it? Do you think that people will just overlook that little problem of the 10 million murders and appreciate all the good that the Nazis did? Why didn't you remind us how the fascists made the trains run on time? I'm sure that was the case in Germany as well as Italy. And of course, creating the infrastructure to slaughter so many human beings created lots and lots of jobs! Should we appreciate the job creation skills of Hitler? This is actually nauseating.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 20, 2012 11:46:29 AM PDT
Well for one thing there was no internet, TV or media which helps the public to thoroughly vet a public official. Germany was coming out of the Great Depression and WW1. Hitler was widely viewed as a young upstart with radical ideas to save a nation. And they wanted to be saved. I think a lot of them went along because they were afraid not to do so. Had they known the outcome they wouldn't have made the choices they made.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 20, 2012 11:52:49 AM PDT
*So why do it? Do you think that people will just overlook that little problem of the 10 million murders and appreciate all the good that the Nazis did? Why didn't you remind us how the fascists made the trains run on time? I'm sure that was the case in Germany as well as Italy. And of course, creating the infrastructure to slaughter so many human beings created lots and lots of jobs! Should we appreciate the job creation skills of Hitler? This is actually nauseating.

I tried to explain what my intentions are. Not to attract people to being Nazis but show how regulare people were attracted. If average non-hating people can see things they support or see good ideas we might learn something and be wary of them in the future.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 20, 2012 11:55:40 AM PDT
JMC

You can do that by watching the christian/republican right in 2012.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 20, 2012 11:59:32 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 20, 2012 12:00:08 PM PDT
Mystére says:
Creaney typed, "I tried to explain what my intentions are. Not to attract people to being Nazis but show how regulare people were attracted. If average non-hating people can see things they support or see good ideas we might learn something and be wary of them in the future."

What?!? Average non-hating people should be wary of good ideas and things they support? Make sense of that. It looks like you didn't think this through before starting this. It reads like a Monty Python sketch.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 20, 2012 12:02:38 PM PDT
IGS says:
ATKM

Not to support the Nazi's but when you are having your nose dragged through $%!# filled gutter, just about anything looks better.

"Welfare programs were instituted. How as these programs paid for? From funds stolen from alleged enemies of Hitler's regime. Jews."

Nice try, but not even close to the truth. Somehow a sustained increase in GNP of 10% for 7 straight years and a sustained 15% increase of industrial productivity does not come from the dispossession of 0.75% of the population. Not even a remotely supportable thesis.

John Kenneth Galbraith advanced one far more supportable thesis:

"large scale borrowing for public expenditures, and at first this was principally for civilian work -- railroads, canals and the Autobahnen [highway network]. The result was a far more effective attack on unemployment than in any other industrial country." Such that "By late 1935 ... unemployment was at an end in Germany. By 1936 high income was pulling up prices or making it possible to raise them ... Germany, by the late thirties, had full employment at stable prices. It was, in the industrial world, an absolutely unique achievement." And also, "Hitler also anticipated modern economic policy ... by recognizing that a rapid approach to full employment was only possible if it was combined with wage and price controls. That a nation oppressed by economic fears would respond to Hitler as Americans did to F.D.R. is not surprising."

Admittedly, this is a Keynsian analysis but a great deal more plausible than some of the more ridiculous ones posited here. Sorry guys.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 20, 2012 12:10:37 PM PDT
I thought those Welfare programs were mostly a facade for the benefit of the Nazi's propaganda effort. The Winter Relief fund.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 20, 2012 12:12:28 PM PDT
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 20, 2012 12:15:16 PM PDT
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 20, 2012 12:17:33 PM PDT
Mystére says:
Creaney typed, "We did have our killings and how different is Jim Crow from what the Jews had to put up with?"

Now there is a leap worthy of Olympic gold! Think "Zyklon B".

Posted on Jul 20, 2012 12:26:50 PM PDT
Po' lil nazis is so misunderstood, they just wanted to make the world a better place. Everybody simply misunderstood them when they put aw those bad peeples in the summer camps and then accidentally left the gas on, conquered western Europe and dropped presents on the English.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 20, 2012 12:31:53 PM PDT
IGS says:
Nope, they were an intelligently though out economic growth structure. More importantly, they were not welfare, they were much more a workfare and they were directed almost entirely at infrastructure. Moreover, it was directed toward two major goals, a strong capitalist and corporate structure and a massive attempt at creating social and economic mobility. In other words having a strong corporate industry, having rich people, having the degree of freedom enabling anyone to become one of those rich people and obtaining the highest possible standard of living possible for the German people. There is much to love and learn from the Nazi programs.

If we were to use today's parlance: a republicrat or demopublican. It would work here. Out of work construction people, rebuild the road nets and rail systems and create a workable mass transit system. The unemployed engineers and network folks redo green energy and hop up the internet to make it the envy of the world. All the tools are here. The cost high. Social welfare as we know it, gone, revamped medical system, military priorities, refocussed, bells and whistles spending, gone, corporate welfare, monitored far more carefully, earmarking gone (i.e., line item veto), social security age up and completely retooled, I can accept it. And we can't through a plethora of untermensch in the ovens, out of the question. But they did get many things right.

The current problems have been, we borrow for wasteful things. Debt is not a bad thing ... if you buy the right stuff with it.

A very interesting article here: http://www.ihr.org/other/economyhitler2011.html

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 20, 2012 12:54:39 PM PDT
*Now there is a leap worthy of Olympic gold! Think "Zyklon B".

I am reffering to the 30s not later when they were exterminated. In the beginning they were going after the retarded and sick.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 20, 2012 12:57:56 PM PDT
Ku says:
The Nazis were preparing for war from the get-go.

They used a special type of financing with bills of exchange called Mefo-Wechsel.

Mefo is the abbreviation of Metallforschungsgesellschaft. Corporation for research into metallurgy.

It was an accounting gimmick that allowed the banks to hide the extent of their exposure to the armaments programs.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 20, 2012 1:02:10 PM PDT
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 20, 2012 1:02:52 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 20, 2012 1:04:19 PM PDT
IGS says:
Joe

Perhaps you should have renamed the thread "Economic Policies of the Nazi's, Good or Bad?" As it is you are going to attract reactionaries from god know what cess pit on both sides of the fence. I do appreciate your sentiments though. The basic premise, what attracted the regular german to their policies and what was successful about their programs.

And yeah, John is right. Germany was Germany due to the singular genius of Otto von Bismarck

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 20, 2012 1:12:46 PM PDT
Mystére says:
Creaney typed, "I am reffering to the 30s not later when they were exterminated."

Oh. I see. I didn't read that part, maybe because you didn't put it in. Still.....how many ideologues ever advocated exterminating all black people? Really, the situations are not comparable. I appreciate some well placed hyperbole as well as the next person, but this is over the top.

Creaney typed, "In the beginning they were going after the retarded and sick."

So I assume that this, happening as it did early on, is okay with you? Gotta save on them national heath deutschmarks and all, gotta free up them hospital beds for all them soon to be wounded soldiers and all.....

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 20, 2012 1:14:57 PM PDT
Mystére says:
I'm goin' surfin' typed, "As it is you are going to attract reactionaries from god know what cess pit on both sides of the fence."

Hey, quick! Identify with side of the cess pit I come from!

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 20, 2012 1:17:06 PM PDT
The Nazis were evil to the core. Their entire program was based on hatred, lies, and a willingness to commit any crime to get their way. As soon as Hitler was elected Chancellor his party hijacked the political system. They immediately rounded up all sorts of opponents including moderates who had simply editorialized against them, and imprisoned, tortured, and killed them or sent them to concentration camps. They then proceeded to create a propaganda illusion of the "happy Volk" with which they brainwashed their own people and deluded foreigners. The lies, murders, and other crimes of all sorts continued right up until May 1945. Final tally, over 20 million innocent people dead.

Any movie which shows the Nazis as positive is a lie, pure and simple. There was nothing "positive" about the Nazis.
‹ Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... 236 Next ›
[Add comment]
Add your own message to the discussion
To insert a product link use the format: [[ASIN:ASIN product-title]] (What's this?)
Prompts for sign-in
 


 

This discussion

Discussion in:  History forum
Participants:  87
Total posts:  5887
Initial post:  Jul 20, 2012
Latest post:  Jun 30, 2013

New! Receive e-mail when new posts are made.
Tracked by 5 customers

Search Customer Discussions