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Gilad Shalit is Still a Prisoner - 4 Years and Counting. Free Gilad Shalit!!!!


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In reply to an earlier post on Nov 4, 2011 6:10:45 PM PDT
patrick says:
Do you lecture the pro-Hamas/Muslim posters in this vein also?

I personally think that such actions as the militant zionist organisations in 1945-48 were indeed wrong, the attacks on British soldiers. They may take a different stance, that the British were taking positions that were in effect Pro-Arab and Arabist, and suffocating to the Jewish state they were trying to found.
Personally, my own position is that Jews should never have killed men who were fighting Hitler 1 year, 2 years, 3 years b4.
Most of them were probably bewildered by the post-war Mandate conflict they were thrust into by the British govt, and had no passion for it or stake in it one way or the other.
then there is Hamas, which is in the now, not in the 1945-48, which is the same as Hezbollah, and both the same as the Talliban and Al Queda and Jemah Islamiah, so far as Im concerned .They are all my enemy as much as they are the Zionists, whether I agree with everything the Zionists are and do, or not.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 4, 2011 7:14:06 PM PDT
\\Irgun. Not mainstream NOT MAINSTREAM"\\

\\The Likud Party was founded by the former leader of the Irgun, Begin, who also served as Prime Minister at one point, none of the Irgun members ever served more then two months in jail and were pardoned for their kidnappings, political assassinations, and bombings; surviving members of the Irgun were awarded medals by the Knesset at one point, and the Irgun was integrated into the IDF. To many on the right in Israel, the Irgun are still patriots and heroes (same goes for Lehi) despite all their actions. (Dershowitz among others certainly defends them.) Given all that, it's hard to not get a whiff of hypocrisy when right wing Israelis, Diaspora, and ignorant Americans talk about the heinous acts of Hamas. \\

That's a great point.

The Lavon Affair conspirators got their medals too!

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 4, 2011 9:17:00 PM PDT
Adios Amigos says:
patrick says:Personally, my own position is that Jews should never have killed men who were fighting Hitler 1 year, 2 years, 3 years b4.
==================

Hi patrict

I have to disagree with you. The British shouldn't get a pass on how they were mistreating the jews just because the brits were fighting hitler.

I expect you wouldn't feel the same way about the Russians who also were fighting hitler.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 4, 2011 9:25:52 PM PDT
Adios Amigos says:
Rachel says:
Sutekh:

With your views it is just factual!
Does not enrich the conversation.
You are hacking the chainik= teapot, with the Irgun. Not mainstream NOT MAINSTREAM, and we already talked this with you quite a bit of time so yes, it makes me sick. A revolving merry go round.

=============
Hi rachel.

the current batch are making me miss Jules here.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 4, 2011 9:33:20 PM PDT
Adios Amigos says:
Sutekh says:
With in reguards to Gilad Shalit, I can't help but think of the Sergeants Affair from 1947, in which the Jewish Irgun kidnapped two off duty British Sergeants,
================================

of course you can't help but think something that is not apples to apples.

That poor comparison being the best you can do say a lot.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 5, 2011 3:26:51 PM PDT
Sutekh says:
L. King says:
Can you provide a detailed list of crimes, kidnappings, bombings, acts of terror and political assassinations carried out by Hamas? Then add in the crimes, bombings, acts of terror carried out by Fatah, Islamic Jihad and by the PFLP and other Palestinian organizations.
------------------

Stalin killed more people then Hitler, that doesn't make Hitler somehow not guilty or his motives any better does it? Because that's pretty much the argument you're trying to present. It's ok that Irgun and Lehi committed terrorist acts because "hey those Arabs committed more".
As to the original topic, least in this particular discussion, how can one not see the irony(or perhaps hypocrisy is the better word) in some Israelis condemning the kidnapping of an Israeli solider and calls by some Arabs to kidnap more, but at the same time still holding up the Irgun, who did the very same thing, as heroes and patriots.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2011 5:19:54 PM PST
patrick says:
Your Palestinian organisations have caused far more harm in Arab nations than in Israel....how many assassinations, unrests, uprisings and insurgencies..
Every time I used to see Arafat in an embrace with an Arab national leader,such as hassan of jordan, I used to feel nauseous, I figure that so did they.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2011 5:39:40 PM PST
L. King says:
Sutekh -

And I thought Sufism was oriented towards peaceful contemplations. Can you provide a detailed list of crimes, kidnappings, bombings, acts of terror and political assassinations carried out by Hamas? Then add in the crimes, bombings, acts of terror carried out by Fatah, Islamic Jihad and by the PFLP and other Palestinian organizations.

Yes, the Arabs committed more crimes. Yes they committed them both before, during and after and continue to do so to the present. And they committed them against each other. So please, tell us the details of Arab terrorism and the degree to which it has popular support to validate your opinion that it was the "same thing". I'm really interested in finding out what you are basing your opinion on.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2011 6:41:31 PM PST
Sutekh says:
L. King says:
Sutekh -

And I thought Sufism was oriented towards peaceful contemplations. Can you provide a detailed list of crimes, kidnappings, bombings, acts of terror and political assassinations carried out by Hamas?
------------------------
Did the Irgun and Lehi carry out bombings? Yes
Political assassinations? Yes
Kidnappings? Yes
Executions with out trials? Yes

Lehi(aka the Stern Gang) itself openly endorsed terrorism as part of their methods saying: "Neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat. Terrorism is for us a part of the political battle being conducted under the present circumstances, and it has a great part to play: speaking in a clear voice to the whole world."
Mentioning terrorism committed by Arabs doesn't change the fact that Irgun and Lehi were terrorist organizations as well and rather then dismiss it as a part of a shameful past, many Israelis still embrace them as heroes and patriots, including many in the current the party heading the coalition government, Likud.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2011 7:16:33 PM PST
L. King says:
Don't be shy Sutekh. Stop repeating yourself and tell us the details of PALESTINIAN ARAB TERRORISM.

C'mon, you can do it if you really really try. I want you to tell me the basis of your comparison. Then we'll deal with the other stuff.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2011 7:51:33 PM PST
Sutekh says:
L. King says:
Don't be shy Sutekh. Stop repeating yourself and tell us the details of PALESTINIAN ARAB TERRORISM.
-----------

You started this conversation, a modern political one in a history forum..but whats new, talking about the kidnapping of an Israeli solider and how outrageous that is. My response is pointing out the fact that Jewish "freedom fighters" did the very same thing in the past and rather then being shunned and commended for doing so, they are instead held up as heroes, patriots, and freedom fighters by the Israeli and Diaspora right. Wonder why King is so shy to admit this bit of hypocrisy? Why does he instead want to talk about Palestinians? I suppose the same reason Netanyahu would, rather then dealing with the socio-economic problems of Israel.

Posted on Nov 6, 2011 7:55:44 PM PST
patrick says:
You are a spruiker for the Palestinians etc,
and you wish to talk about "leaders" who dodge dealing with socio-economic issues, right?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 6, 2011 9:10:38 PM PST
Sutekh says:
patrick says:
You are a spruiker for the Palestinians etc,
and you wish to talk about "leaders" who dodge dealing with socio-economic issues, right?
-------------------------

Until posting to this thread last week, I haven't posted to (or read) the half dozen Israeli/Palestinian/Arab/Jew "discussions" in several months. So not sure how that makes me a "sprukier" for any Palestinians. Or is anyone who question Likud, Shas, or Yisrael Beiteinu policies and their supporters must be Palestinians?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 7, 2011 10:19:17 AM PST
Rachel says:
Patrick:

He is on ignore with me, thank you for the comment. I second this in a second!
Can you explain this word, I am sure it is slang. Spruiker? Thanks

Rachel

Posted on Nov 8, 2011 12:50:31 PM PST
patrick says:
a spruiker is a public voice-seller, for example, outside of market stalls or shops, if a guy is out front loudly calling out his prices and goods and recommending specials etc to passers by, that is spruiking.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 8, 2011 12:52:59 PM PST
patrick says:
http://3skype.blogspot.com/2007/11/definition-of-spruik.html

sorry, I didnt even realize it was an Australian word, always imagined it was an international English word.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 8, 2011 12:55:28 PM PST
Rachel says:
patrick:

It is great to always learn something new. I am not ashamed in not knowing something. Thanks.

Rachel

Posted on Dec 10, 2011 5:22:19 PM PST
Sixties fan says:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/226633

(video via link online)
12/11/2011, Kislev 15, 5772

Gilad Shalit: "Grateful To Supporters for the Rest of My Life"

In the first video since his captivity, Gilad Shalit thanked his supporters, saying in a recorded video statement at an activists' reunion held at Kibbutz Shefayim on Saturday evening, that " I know without a doubt that your determined, continued struggle for my release, each according to his own ability, the perseverance and support of my family, throughout the long road, constituted one of the decisive factors that contributed to the decision to bring me home."
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Discussion in:  History forum
Participants:  31
Total posts:  368
Initial post:  Jun 25, 2010
Latest post:  Dec 10, 2011

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