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Avant Garde Jazz


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Showing 226-250 of 1000 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2009 6:51:23 PM PDT
Garratt,

I'm from Indiana so I know the scene. At least how it was 25 years ago. Speaking of Columbus . I met my wife ( of 30 years) in Mt Vernon. We frequented High Street, down by OSU during our time there. Is Mole's Record Exchange still in business. Got a LOT of good music there during my time in Central Ohio. In fact, I StiLL have some of those records. A lot of good memories from those days.

Dan,

Jazzwise, you're one of the luckiest guys I know.

When you talked to Ms. Grimes did the subject of where her husband was for all of those years come up?

Pharoah,

Have you made that pilgrimage to Chicago for Jazz?

Ga

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2009 7:49:37 PM PDT
If you are going to talk about Chicago local musicians the name Bradley Parker-Sparrow belongs at the top of the list because not only is he a creative pianist he is also the mover and shaker behind a lot of the modern recordings over the past 30 years.
http://www.chicagosound.com/home.htm

Another important name is Kelan Phil Cohran.
http://www.philcohran.com/

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2009 3:40:13 AM PDT
Spartacus says:
Funny thing that so many years have past and my thirst for this stuff is just as great as it was in the beginning. Also the focus has stayed the same-I want to hear something new...different. The music I want to hear iws the kind that will stop all the words in my head...create an absolute silence...and I can just listen. Listen!

There is something about the state that jazz puts me in...in creates a physical state that is restorative...healing...literally. I learned this when I was a kid with severe life-threatening asthma. I genuinely believe that had it not been for this, I would not be alive today. This music has literally saved my life on occasions. Now, I doubt anyone will buy this. But if you can't, you just haven't been there.

Dan

PS My alarm clock went off this morning to the sound of Henry Grimes and Rashid Ali (WKCR...best jazz around anywhere). The station is focusing on Vision Festival performers. Way to go!

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2009 3:59:43 AM PDT
Spartacus says:
Tom,

Schoenberg/Cage/Morriconi? What are these gals smokin'? (Not to be critical...just got a laugh out of that.)

What frustrates me a lot is that no matter where, in big cities all over the world (except maybe New York and even there it is mostly true), performers who don't travel don't get any press and wind up on virtually no distributed recordings...which means that no matter how good they are and how original, the remain unknowns. This ought to change...must change...because in the years to come travel may become extremely, prohibitively expensive. The world may have to go local just to keep the planet sustainable (and if you don't believe that it is because you are not well informed about what is going on that affects the big picture). Also blame that on the horribly provincial, anti-cultural attitudes of most Americans. It comes from selfishness..."If it doesn't come to me, it must not be any good...why should I have to make any effort to find things that I want or need?"
Thank heavens that the Internet is beginning to change that. Global Village, here I come (that would make a good album title)!

Dan

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2009 5:55:21 AM PDT
J. GARRATT says:
Saying it doesn't exist in the midwest was an exaggeration. I'll try to explain my frustration for clearly:

If you live on the west coast, no matter what city in which you reside, your chances of catching something really interesting are improved because there are numerous HOT spots on the west coast. These crazy jazzers might hit Seattle, Portland, Sacramento, LA, SF, San Diego, all in one run. I don't know enough about California.

East coast? Same sorta deal. If you don't live in New York, don't sweat; all those other cities within reasonable driving distance have a reputation for appreciating fine and weird art.

Midwest, it's Chicago. If I were closer to the windy city and my family situation were different, I would visit my brother and his wife all the time. The idea that I could accidentally bump into Muhal Richard Abrams or Roscoe Mitchell excites me. Once I did see Fred Anderson by accident! He was just standing around!

Being in central Ohio with a small child, I see things skip over me lots. No, I'm not trying to throw myself a pity party, just airing out my thoughts. Tours usually go from Illinois over to PA, maybe a stop in Detroit. If I were the tour managers of these acts, I might not be too inticed to book shows in a place like Columbus; lots of people, but no one wants to take in any intense music. They just want their college football.

Ken Vandermark is coming to Columbus in August. Once every year or two, we get an interesting act coming through.

Brutus, I know that I must seek. Seeking can be fun. If I had time, I would seek all, find all, and absorb all.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2009 5:58:20 AM PDT
J. GARRATT says:
Never heard of Mole's. I'm only 31, so that may be before my time. There is a very good placed called "Used Kids" where I can find all kinds of interesting things, depending on the day. One time they had "Aces Back to Back." I think my parents met in Mt. Vernon.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2009 6:40:55 AM PDT
Spartacus says:
Garrett,

It's not necessary to defend yourself. Your point was quite understandable and reasonable right from the start ands your frustrations are perfectly reasonable.

Dan

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2009 7:37:02 AM PDT
Garratt,
re:"Never heard of Mole's. I'm only 31,..."

They were on High Street for a lot of years. I passed thru Columbus in '01 and couldn't find them. There was a record store called School Kids as I recall. I wonder if Used Kids isn't some kind of spin off.

You're doing the right thing, with the time you invest in that baby. It will come back in ways you can not imagine. In the meantime check out the music you love at home. That child will benefit from that as well.

Sounds like your folks were in MV about the same time as my wife and I. I think about that place often. Kenyon College about 10 miles from MV is a magical place for me as well. A 150 yo old Episcopal church there called The Chapel Of The Holy Spirit holds mystery and wonder, just thinking about it. I understand it was moved block by block from somewhere in England. That whole area as well. I imagine Ichabod Crane was created in a place like Central Ohio.

Dan,

Your thoughts about music are flat out wonderful. I think we're all on a similar path of discovery around here. Thanks for sharing that.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2009 7:42:10 AM PDT
It's true, the less you move around the less you are known. If Sparroe, Harrison Bankhead, Phil Cohran and many others moved around more they would certainly be more known but for different reasons they prefer to stay for the most part in Chicago. The ticket is that no matter what, you still have to go to New York. Even just Europe is not enough. Look at Hamid he was going to Europe in the 80's and playing with top notch Euro-artists but it was just in the past 10 years since he's been more in NY that he is getting the recognition he deserves.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2009 9:32:18 AM PDT
Jeffery Gifford says:

Pharoah,
Have you made that pilgrimage to Chicago for Jazz?

=========

Caught lots of people there in the past 15 years. Lots of Hamid with the DKV Trio, Fred Anderson, etc... I'm not even a huge Vandermark fan but the Hamid pull was too strong to deny. Last year I got my first Territory Band album and (aside from the electronics which are pretty lame on a few tracks) have quite liked it, though.

Nels Cline with Bendian, the Singers, Carla Bozulich, etc...

Peter Brotzmann Chicago Tentet a couple times years ago... that (Tentet, not just those gigs) was really the only Brotzmann I was in love with for a long time, until about 10 years after I bought it, Dried Rat-Dog clicked in for me and the floodgates opened.

various Fred Anderson congregations with Bankhead, Tatsu Aoki, Jeff Parker, Chicago Underground, Kidd Jordan, etc...

Evan Parker, Marilyn Crispell, Mats Gustafsson, Barry Guy, Michael Zerang in various things, Joe McPhee, Jeb Bishop, ummm...

I never did get Peter Kowald, which makes me sad to this day.

Anyway, I'm not as far away as Columbus, so that's part of it. I couldn't afford 5 or 6 hours there and 5 or 6 back, either.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2009 9:41:01 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 12, 2009 9:46:08 AM PDT
strictly in terms of money, all these people play Europe 50 times more often than NYC. I must also add that as a midwestern rube, I was hyping Hamid Drake years before the Downtown Music Gallery began calling him "everyone's favorite drummer". Same with Tisziji Munoz (but on guitar).

I think the Hamid factor isn't just an NYC vs. Europe or Chicago thing. It's more because he and William Parker really began to be THE ONES in this past 10ish years or so. I love both of them dearly and have them together and seperate, but when they're together and everything clicks, there's nothing else out there like it.

Their bass & drums work together in various bands throughout the late '90s and into the '00s is why they're both viewed a little differently than they were 15 or 20 years ago.

Edit: I should add that that's a guesstimation. 20 years ago I was 14 and don't truly know how they were being viewed. I just quite suspect that with WP doing the Cecil Taylor thing and Hamid being much more "local Chicago guy" back then (Plus the Don Cherry gigs and whatever else), they were not the towering figures they are right now. Tough for me to say, really. I didn't know the music of either of them yet when I was in junior high.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2009 9:56:11 AM PDT
Spartacus says:
I have no problem with any musician who would rather stay where they are. My problem is the don't get recorded, distributed or publicized enough so that I never get to hear some really great stuff. There is one guy in my collection who was from Hawaii and never left there. He has 30-40 albums over a space of many years and I only found out about him by accident last year, while I was net surfing. Situations like that are bad news. There is a need for a really good detailed central bio register where all these guys can check in and let us know who they are. It also needs to be a free wiki, not some Tom Lord BS that costs hundreds of dollars. I might even donate some time to a project like that if it could get started. If anyone knows of anything out there resembling that, please give me a shout.

Dan

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2009 9:58:01 AM PDT
Spartacus says:
Anderson and Brotzmann are both up on Sunday at the VF session I plan to catch.

Dan

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2009 10:06:53 AM PDT
yes I scoured that schedule when it first hit the website. If a couple of my various situations were different, I would have been there.

Now that we're in the "late Spring" phase, I keep wondering when Eremite Records will open up again. I'm hoping there are some new releases soon after return.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2009 12:17:14 PM PDT
Nitya says:
Pharoah S. Wail says: strictly in terms of money, all these people play Europe 50 times more often than NYC
=============
What I have noticed on my trips to europe that is many of the venues are not strictly "jazz clubs". While there are a lot of heavy metal only clubs in northern europe most of the clubs in Norway, Sweden and Germany will have a folk singer with a guitar one night then Nils Petter Molvaer Group the next then a rock band the next.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2009 12:22:24 PM PDT
That's actually pretty similar to many clubs in Chicago like The Empty Bottle, Katarina's, The Underground Wonderbar and dozens more.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2009 2:18:29 PM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Jun 13, 2009 7:43:30 AM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 13, 2009 12:24:26 PM PDT
Dan,

Have fun at the Festival, man.

In regards to getting this music some exposure , whatever became of you doing a radio show over on the station Nitya is associated with? Soma,isn't that the name of it? Just wondering?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 13, 2009 1:04:44 PM PDT
Nitya Nadesan says:

What I have noticed on my trips to europe that is many of the venues are not strictly "jazz clubs". While there are a lot of heavy metal only clubs in northern europe most of the clubs in Norway, Sweden and Germany will have a folk singer with a guitar one night then Nils Petter Molvaer Group the next then a rock band the next.
=========

For me, that's how it should be. And Thomas is correct, too. Things like Bottle Fest have never been "oh you have to play a horn and be JAZZY to play here". John Corbett djs sets in between seemingly a quarter of the improvised gigs in chicago.

I'm certainly not defined by "jazz" (however anyone wants to define THAT). If I ran a radio station or owned a club or something, it could never be about a "format", because that would drive me nuts. I could list my 20 favorite jazz musicians here (not that I've ever really thought in those terms or made a list), all people I love, but if those were the only people to which I could listen for a year, I'd be out of my mind.

My ideas about music focus on a certain level of expression rather than adherence to the rules of genre. In Chicago, the World Music Festival kills the jazz festival proper. One year I caught this group of Korean improvisors on zithers, flutes and drums at the Garfield Park Conservatory for free. They had no cds out that I could find, and I don't remember their name but they moved me immensely. 2 weeks after 9/11 my sister and I caught L. Shankar (10-string violin), Vikku (ghatam), Gingger (10-string violin) and Zakir Hussain (tabla) playing (Carnatic music, not fusion stuff like they'd have to play if McLaughlin or whoever was present) at the Cultural Center. The country was still neck-deep in a mixture of pathos and vengeful hatred, and yet in this small room were half the ethnicities in Chicago all riding waves of music together. The room emptied out that night feeling like we'd all discovered the formula to end wars and violence. It was all smiles and hugs and blown minds.

Maybe it's just me, but you don't get that from Sonny Rollins playing Buttons & Bows to a field of 7,000 picnic jazz fans.

If I were a concert promoter, I'd have to be of the Bill Graham type. Pharoah's Summer Tour 2009 would look more like Kim Duk Soo, Oumou Sangare and Erykah Badu rather than rocker, rocker rocker or jazzer, jazzer, jazzer.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 13, 2009 11:20:48 PM PDT
Pharoah,

re: "If I were a concert promoter, I'd have to be of the Bill Graham type."

I wish you had the means to do that today. Bill did a great service to the hippies and other listeners of that area. Being from Indiana growing up around that time I thought that was just how it was "out there" in San Francisco. People dug all kinds of music for different reasons. Certainly not like my home in Kokomo for the most part. Not so much an indictment on a type of music as it was a mentality towards all music being presented there when I was growing up. Jazz was the whipping boy because it was weird or whatever, but so was anything that was outside of the box. SF surely had it's own issues. But a LoT of great music came from there nonetheless.

What someone said about living in Colorado -" I wasn't born here ,but I got here as soon as I could" relates to being a Jazz lover. I wasn't born a Jazz fan but I got there as soon as I could. I'm still "getting there".

Jazz is my favorite form of music. But like you I don't know if I could listen to it, or any music ,exclusive of other forms. I know this, I don't listen to Jazz exclusively. The reason I love Jazz is it comes closest to being a consistent conduit for experiencing what only music can give, the joy, the passion, the poetry of experience and inspiration from beyond the realm of words. When any music inspires me, there is a bit of what I found in Jazz in that experience. Jazz got to me first in a deep way and I'll never forget that. The music I have heard in my life so far and, similarly, the next tune that will strike deep and resonate in ways not commonly experienced, provide the means. That may or may not make sense. But it is one listener's experience. At least something like it.

re:"Caught lots of people there in the past 15 years." Your post on Jun 12, 2009 9:32 AM PDT Thanks for your account of the Jazz you checked in Chicago. Very Cool.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2009 12:21:03 AM PDT
Spartacus says:
Jeffery,

There were problems with the SomaFM thing. If it happens at all, it may not be for a long time now. Did you get to hear it while it was running in test mode? It ran for about a week on a link Nitya had posted.

Dan

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 14, 2009 6:40:11 PM PDT
Dan,

I did not, but would have liked to.

Posted on Jun 16, 2009 6:19:29 AM PDT
J. GARRATT says:
Pharoah, which Territory Band release do you have? How did you get it?

I have "Transatlantic Bridge," "Atlas," and "Map Theory."

Posted on Jun 16, 2009 6:22:53 AM PDT
J. GARRATT says:
I was going through an issue of Guitar Player magazine from a few years back and found this from an interview with Jeff Parker:

GP: How Important is Chicago to your experience as a musician?
JEFF: Very Important. Chicago has a tradition of supporting fringe music, and it's a nurturing place for independent artists because there's a network of independent record labels and distributors, as well as an audience that appreciates left-of-center music. There's a lot more Freedom to experiment here, which is what I'm all about.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 16, 2009 6:25:31 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 16, 2009 6:33:20 AM PDT
J. -

the only one I have is Map Theory. There was another one I was THIS CLOSE to buying a month or 2 ago but I went with something else and have been ho-hum on it. Wish I'd have given another territroy disc a shot. That one is called something or other about the White House.

I bought it (and was going to buy the White House one) straight from Okka Disk.

www.okkadisk.com

ALSO since I saw you're in Columbus, Ohio, Oumou Sangare is playing in Dayton, Ohio on... well I'd have to go look to be exact but I think July 4th. the 4th or 5th. She's from Mali and I love her. Even if you don't know her music, the gig is free and very likely to grab you.

edit: here's the Dayton fest she's at...
http://www.cityfolk.org/festival/2009/schedule.htm
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