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Avant Garde Jazz

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In reply to an earlier post on Feb 5, 2009 11:56:42 PM PST
Ahmad says:
I need recommendations of Eric Dolphy; I already own his "Out to Lunch". Which album do I go for? I don't like to hear him in big band format, by the way.

Thank you, all.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 6, 2009 3:48:29 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 6, 2009 3:51:38 AM PST
Spartacus says:
For many years Dolphy was my favorite player. Eventually he was joined by Lester Bowie and Archie Shepp.

My favorite Dolphy album with him as leader is Eric Dolphy - Last Date 1964.

In addition his performance on the following is outsanding:

John Coltrane & Eric Dolphy - The Complete Copenhagen Concert
Oliver Nelson, Bill Evans, Roy Haynes, Eric Dolphy, Paul Chambers & Freddy Hubbard -
The Blues And The Abstract Truth

Although you might shy away from that last, I have never heard anyone say they didn't like it. The Stolen Moments track is often referred to as a masterpiece, as is the album as a whole.


In reply to an earlier post on Feb 6, 2009 5:24:47 AM PST
Ahmad says:
Hi, Daniel:
Thanks for the quick reply; and thank you for reminding me that I already own the "The Truth..."; I will go with your recommendation of "Last Date". I also own his performances with Coltrane on "Live at the Village Vanguard-the Master Takes". As some reviewer of the Vanguard commented...Coltrane brutally interrupted a solo or more of Dolphy's during the Vanguard sessions.

Posted on Feb 6, 2009 5:45:54 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 6, 2009 5:46:38 AM PST
Crikeydingo says:
Hi Dan.
I recall you mentioning you had at least one Triosk album.Here is a review by John Shand (Sydney Morning Herald) of former Triosk pianist Adrian Klumpes' latest release;
'Immediate' (Space Dairy label)
"Sometimes this sounds like the ghost of music than music itself,so eerie and portentous is it.As in Poe's short stories,mood is everything for gifted Sydney pianist Adrian Klumpes(formerly of Triosk) and his accomplices Abel Cross(bass) and Finn Ryan(drums).All manner of electronic treatments transform the acoustic instruments,playing simple and beguiling melodic motifs in the restless search for another disquieting texture.The strongest material has the brutality hinted at than extant,however" 4 out of 5 stars.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 6, 2009 6:04:39 AM PST
Reply to Dan:

"Susan, Despite everything you say about Bigard being true, I don't see it as a probable extension of a discussion of avant garde jazz."

I suppose my post should have said, in response to Case Quarter: "so now who is barney bigard?"

Case: "I know who Barney Bigard was but I can't tell you because Dan would not see it as a probable extension of a discussion about avant garde jazz. Sorry."

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 6, 2009 10:16:39 AM PST
Case Quarter says:
susan, who is john galt?

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 6, 2009 10:49:26 AM PST
Case Quarter says:
because one of my favorite jazz selections is jitterbug waltz, i was going to recommend the eric dolphy memorial album, the copy i own, put out by exodus records label. i just checked here on amazon and it seems the eric dolphy memorial album, consisting of jitterbug waltz and 3 other songs has been dinosaured, and in its place is 'the complete album sessions' with the 4 songs on the earlier exodus release and an added 5 songs, one of them being come sunday, another favorite of mine. two of the selections, alone together is a 13 minute duet with dolphy and richard davis on bass, and love me, dolphy playing solo, definitely not big band format.

a couple of players listed on other selections, woody shaw jr on trumpet and robert hutcherson on vibes. later shaw dropped the jr after his name, and robert became bobby.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 6, 2009 10:49:47 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 6, 2009 11:05:57 AM PST
Spartacus says:

Do you really thing I'm that much of an ^$$? You didn't address your post to Case Quarter and I didn't read his post. What would have really been relevant would have been an explanation by him of why Shepp referred to Bigard. Should we start over? He's doing it again! Are we talking John Galt, the Ayn Rand character, or John Galt the rapper, or one of possibly 855,000 references to the name according to Google? Perhaps your intuition is better than mine and you know exactly who he means, and maybe if you are telepathic (or a descendant of Sherlock Holmes) you know why he's asking, but I am clueless, so, please, enlighten me!


These reviewers often sound to me as if they are on some drug that not even I ever tried! I once wrote a computer program that generated text that looked like sentences by randomly selecting phrases out of a list that no matter how you combined it and how deep it sounded, was nothing but pure nonsense. Do you have any idea what this guy was talking about? I don't?


Posted on Feb 6, 2009 11:26:08 AM PST
Case Quarter says:
now i understand why i've been confused in the past. when i reply to someone in particular i put my reply in the box for the reply to that particular person's post and that reply doesn't always become part of the discussion. what i should be doing is addressing the person of the moment whose post got me to post and post my posting in the 'add your own message to the discussion' box'.

for example:

dan, i didn't know there was a rapper named john galt. i'm not a fan of rap or rock, but a couple of weeks a fellow into both who will listen to more jazz when he finds time assured me that rap will save jazz from going extinct, and he gave me a cd , madlib: shades of blue, which is kind of a rapper's tribute to blue note artists.

case quarter

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 6, 2009 1:41:14 PM PST
Spartacus says:
Case Quarter,

1. What did Archie Shepp say about Barney Bigard?

2. Who is the John Galt you referred to and why did you mention him?


In reply to an earlier post on Feb 6, 2009 2:06:57 PM PST
Case Quarter says:
the clarinet is a marvelous instrument, and i am proud that the american xnxexgro has added so much in imagination and tone to its usage. perry robinson (who by the way is not a megro) has been one of my favorite players since i first heard him at the world youth festival in 1962. i was inspired to use him, partly by his own inestimable abilities, and some very old tracks of duke's on which barney bigard appeared.

--archie shepp, from linear notes to mama too tight

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 6, 2009 2:31:21 PM PST
Nitya says:
Case, try a little euro jazz. The clarinet is still in use by the various reedmen. Hans Ulrick is amazing on bass clarinet and their is a player named Sha who plays with Nik Baertsch's Ronin and also has his own group Sha's Banyru with a wonderful cd called Chess-Boxing (google chess-boxing there really is such a thing). Sha plays a contra bass clarinet on some tracks with Ronin, whoa! Also Louis Sclavis is very good. These guys tend toward avant garde but their music is very listenable. They also use the cello a lot in euro jazz.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 6, 2009 3:05:23 PM PST
Case Quarter says:
nitya, i liked your lengthy comments on gianluigi trovesi's profumo di violetta so much that i placed the cd on my amazon wish list. no luck so far in finding chess-boxing, the cd, not the sport, lots of sites for the sport.

Posted on Feb 6, 2009 6:45:37 PM PST
Nitya says:
case wrote: no luck so far in finding chess-boxing

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 10, 2009 9:21:06 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 10, 2009 9:22:38 AM PST
Spartacus says:
If you are in the New York area on February 20, here is a rare opportunity:

Arthur Doyle is an underground superstar. Whether or not he ever sees the mainstream light of day depends largely on a practically backwards in time, jazz media, a couldn't find true artistry with two hands and a flashlight, major labels, and a culture that seems to have turned its back on improvised anything. So hopes here at the Weekly Roadshow are not high that we will be seeing a Doyle bin card at Tower Records anytime soon. But there is a beauty of a revelation called the internet and if you are so inclined and seek avant gems, find some Doyle. I first got wind of Doyle at a Berkeley used record store. I picked up a couple of CDs for a fiver and was blown away. The saxophonist can blow a horn and so it was mystifying to me that I never saw Doyle mentioned in any of the traditional and even not-so-traditional jazz rags. That is when the Roadshow takes on the cause. We tracked down Doyle and he sat down with the Weekly and the following is his take, unedited and in his own words. [continued on]

Perry Robinson grew up in New York City and attended the Lenox School of Jazz in Massachusetts in the summer of 1959. His first record, Funk Dumpling (with Kenny Barron, Henry Grimes, and Paul Motian) was recorded in 1962. He also appeared with Grimes on The Call in 1965. Robinson served in a U.S. military band in the early 1960s. Since 1973 he has worked with Jeanne Lee and Gunter Hampel's Galaxie Dream Band. He contributed to Dave Brubeck' s Two Generations of Brubeck and played with Burton Greene' s Dutch klezmer band Klezmokum. He has led his own groups in performances and on record, with albums on the Chiaroscuro, WestWind, and Timescraper labels. More recently, he worked with William Parker and Walter Perkins on Bob's Pink Cadillac and several discs on the CIMP label. From 1975 until 1977, Robinson was member of a band called Clarinet Contrast, featuring German clarinet players Theo Jörgensmann and Bernd Konrad. He has recorded with Lou Grassi as a member of his PoBand since the late Nineties, and with Lou Grassi, Wayne Lopes and Luke Faust in 'The Jug Jam', an improvisational jug band. He plays in a free jazz and world music trio along with tabla player Badal Roy and bassist Ed Schuller, with whom he recorded the CD Raga Roni. He has played with Dave Brubeck and Muruga Booker in the MBR jazz trio, and has also played with Booker in the Global Village Ceremonial Band, and has played with them at the Starwood Festival, SpiritDrum Festival, and RhythmFest with Sikiru Adepoju, Halim El-Dabh, Jeff Rosenbaum and Badal Roy. Robinson also played an integral part in the formation of 'Cosmic Legends' an improvisational music/performance group led by composer/pianist Sylvie Degiez which included musicians Rashied Ali, Wayne Lopes, Hayes Greenfield, and Michael Hashim among others. In 2005 he was featured on his cousin Jeffrey Lewis' album "City and Eastern Songs" on Rough Trade Records, produced by Kramer. His most recent release was OrthoFunkOlogy in 2008 with the band Free Funk, also featuring Muruga Booker, Badal Roy, and Shakti. His autobiography, Perry Robinson: The Traveler (co-authored by Florence F. Wetzel), was published in 2002. [from Wikipedia]


Posted on Feb 10, 2009 5:24:55 PM PST
willm says:
Bernd Konrad-FANTASTIC! The album,"Phonolith" is incredible.

Anyone interested in clarinet should check out Chris Speed's,"Jugendstil" or the young British quartet Barkingside on Emanem records.

The Clean Feed label is to the 21st century what Blue Note was to the 20th,but we live in musically conservative times;not too many people are listening.It gets categorized as "Avant Garde"......what a joke,go to,listen to their catalog....

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 12, 2009 8:24:06 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 12, 2009 10:01:05 AM PST
Spartacus says:

I would guess that would make Tzadik the 21st Century equivalent of the ESP label (unless ESP turns out to be the ESP of the 21st Century) except that it has a much larger catalog.


In reply to an earlier post on Feb 27, 2009 4:27:41 AM PST
Spartacus says:
This is a free legal download of an entire album worth hearing.


In reply to an earlier post on Feb 27, 2009 10:47:59 AM PST
Spartacus says:

Beginning this coming Monday, March 2, 2009 with the Billy Bang Quintet and Todd Nicholson's Otic Band, we are moving the RUCMA Series to a new venue. All upcoming RUCMA Series performances will be taking place at The Local 269.

The Local 269
269 East Houston Street
at the Corner of Suffolk

The RUCMA Series takes place every Monday night. For additional information go to


In reply to an earlier post on Mar 3, 2009 10:10:58 AM PST
Spartacus says:
All About Jazz just did an article about a 10 CD box set of Albert Mangelsdorff released by MPS-Universal covering all his recordings from 1968-1982. Boy! There's and instant wish-list item!


In reply to an earlier post on Mar 3, 2009 1:09:03 PM PST
Edwardobop says:

Have you anything by Marty Ehrlich? His clarinet playing is something to behold... his recording "Soujourn" on John Zorn's Tzadik label would be a good place to start.


He is a fomidable musician and you can hear his alto playing at the Palmetto website (the whole tracks are available for listening) where he has several recordings to choose from.,24,42

"Line on Love " is strongly recommended.


In reply to an earlier post on Mar 7, 2009 6:29:03 PM PST
Spartacus says:

I don't know how many of you are familiar with Tom Fahy, a talented avant garde musician who died recently. I also don't know if any on you browse the Internet Archive. I just made an amazing discovery. I stumbled on a collection of 45 albums by Fahy available for free download!!!

I have a number of albums by Ehrich. He and Perry Robinson have been the cutting edge of clarinet players for years and years.


In reply to an earlier post on Mar 8, 2009 8:34:39 AM PDT
Edwardobop says:

I kind of thought you would have some of the Ehrlich recordings.

Many thanks for mentioning Perry Robinson in the same context. It has been many years since I thought about him and I even considered that he must have retired years ago. I was pleasantly surprised to find his Myspace page... and learn he is still touring at 70. I also dug out an interview/article that I remembered reading several years ago at AAJ. A few gems of musical history about a musician that should be better known.


In reply to an earlier post on Mar 8, 2009 9:15:10 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 8, 2009 10:21:29 AM PDT
Wasted Life says:
Very nice find. That site is amazing! If you go to audio, live music archive, and search "jazz", the amount of free downloads is incredible.

PS Just listened to Nashira by Fahy on the site. Is that typical of his work?

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 8, 2009 9:44:55 AM PDT
Spartacus says:

If you look below you will see that Robinson is currently in the NY area and was recently playing in a new jazz space that has opened up in Brooklyn and appears to be devoted to avant garde jazz.

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Discussion in:  Jazz forum
Participants:  93
Total posts:  2319
Initial post:  Oct 5, 2008
Latest post:  1 day ago

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