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Did God Have A Wife

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In reply to an earlier post on May 23, 2012 8:16:29 AM PDT
Sarah says:
Thank you, cbk.

In reply to an earlier post on May 23, 2012 9:32:15 AM PDT
Mens Sana says:
Bu, bu, but-wasn't "Manifest Destiny" the political philosophy of a Christian nation?

In reply to an earlier post on May 23, 2012 9:35:10 AM PDT
Mens Sana says:
You are absolutely right, "no Christian believes himself to be a polytheist" and "Christians are (NOT) attempting to play a deceitful trick on the rest of mankind."

Cognitive dissonance doesn't work that way.

In reply to an earlier post on May 23, 2012 9:37:43 AM PDT
cbk says:
It may not have been sanctioned by the Christian clergy (or maybe it was) but it was still a philosophy that was claimed in the name of Christianity and based upon Christians' beliefs in their Christianity.

In reply to an earlier post on May 23, 2012 12:32:20 PM PDT
Mens Sana says:
Ah, I see. I wasn't clear enough.

In reply to an earlier post on May 23, 2012 7:17:54 PM PDT
Bryan Borich's post:
Btw, good hymn, would you care to post it in the Interfaith thread?
===================================
Sure... where is it? You can click on the "permalink" from a post in that thread and post the url here.

Brother Niv

In reply to an earlier post on May 23, 2012 7:19:31 PM PDT
Bryan Borich says:
It's here:

http://www.amazon.com/forum/christianity/ref=cm_cd_rvt_np?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx77WQHU8YS50Z&cdPage=120&cdThread=Tx1E4MN9DI9BUIF#CustomerDiscussionsNew

In reply to an earlier post on May 27, 2012 12:09:23 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 27, 2012 12:10:00 PM PDT
If the only covenant is the Mitzvah and this is the only requirement for boys or men to follow then many of them must not have been circumcised of heart, only of the body. Where does the responsibility lie? Does it rest with the woman to teach these things to the men? When they failed in doing so, it is the responsibilty for the women to teach? What is the responsibility of the father - not to set the example? The Jewish tradition blood line is passed through the mother's side not the fathers. If the father is Jewish and the mother is a gentile then the children are not really Jewish. They lose their bloodline covenant. So for sake of the Northern 10 tribes. If many are breaking the rules and there may be just a small splinter group following the rules and God sends Prophets to testify the voice of warning, in hope for them to return back to the God of Israel and the majority still refuses - then the good are bound to fall with the bad? The good had better comply and move and get out of there and follow the advisement of the voice of warning. Hardly any of the 10 tribes ever came back to their locations but were scattered. Only Judah, Benjamin and Levi from the southern kingdom were the few who were left even after the Babylon captivity.

In reply to an earlier post on May 27, 2012 9:59:08 PM PDT
I. Dunn says:
Mens Sana says:Bu, bu, but-wasn't "Manifest Destiny" the political philosophy of a Christian nation?

That depends. Technically, the US is classified as a "Liberal Democracy" (see Wikipedia for the definition) as is Israel. I have been wondering if Manifest Destiny has an analagous relationship to Christianity as Zionism has to Judaism? I am not asserting that it has, Im just looking to see how I can explain the relationship between the two in terms we can all understand.

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 5:46:22 AM PDT
Sarah says:
MCP: If the only covenant is the Mitzvah and this is the only requirement for boys or men to follow then many of them must not have been circumcised of heart, only of the body.

S What does this sentence even mean? It makes no sense. What are you trying to say here? You need to find some other way to say it.

MCP: If the father is Jewish and the mother is a gentile then the children are not really Jewish. They lose their bloodline covenant.

S There is no "bloodline covenant." There is Jewish status that can come from one of two facts, not just one: either birth to a Jewish mother or proper, authorized conversion.

Many Jews have no biological connection going back through a female line, if there was a conversion somewhere along the line.

You seem to be operating on guesswork based on loosely on Christian myths about Judaism.

Posted on May 28, 2012 9:44:21 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 28, 2012 9:56:41 AM PDT
What does circumcised of the heart mean? I can't believe you don't understand this? Many people show outward signs of their faith but that does not necessarly mean that they are truly converted to the faith. A true conversion comes not from outward appearances but comes from within the heart and mind and not only just the body. The covenant of circumcision is the oat and covenant of the Jews and is a sign of that covenant given to Abraham but if the person does not carry that oat in covenant within his heart and mind he is only an acting imposter of the faith. A person can be circumcised by showing the outward sign of the covenant but that does not mean that they are converted through their heart and mind. Living by the spirt of the law is more important than by the letter of the law. It would be like a christian who likes to ware costume apparel such as big crosses around their necks - showing a outward sign that they might be a converted but actions might speak otherwises. And yes there is a blood line covenant - they have always considered people Jewish by tracing the line through the maternal side. A gentile may become converted to Judaism but if he has no bloodline in his history he is not Jewish but just practicing the religion of Judaism. How do you think Nazi Germany traced down people who might be Jewish even if they were not a practicing Jew? If your grandmother was a Jew they considered you Jewish even if you were not. I have talked with orthodox Jews and they agree.

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 10:01:03 AM PDT
Sarah says:
>MCP: If the only covenant is the Mitzvah and this is the only requirement for boys or men to follow then many of them must not have been circumcised of heart, only of the body.

>S What does this sentence even mean? It makes no sense. What are you trying to say here? You need to find some other way to say it.

M: What does circumcised of the heart mean?

S No, what does your whole obscure sentence mean? "the only covenant is the Mitzvah"? what in the world are you trying to say? "this is the only requirement for boys or men to follow"? What are you trying to get at, exactly? None of this makes any sense.

M A gentile may become converted to Judaism but if he has no bloodline in his history he is not Jewish but just practicing the religion of Judaism.

S No, this incorrect. You seem to be very confused.

Posted on May 28, 2012 12:55:57 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 28, 2012 2:27:16 PM PDT
Truly I can't believe that you don't understand? So, all it takes is just to be circumcised and you don't have to follow the God of Israel? Truly, it's much more than living line upon line of the law and then not understanding how you are suppose to live your life? Being circumcised is the easy part - living the covenant is another thing. Can a person be circumcised of his mind and heart as well? If Abraham gave an oath and made a covenant to God for all his children to follow from Isaac down to his grandson Jacob who was Israel, that would mean that there had to be a bloodline because the house of Israel did not make a habit of proselytizing. They were commanded not to have relations with outsiders to keep the bloodline from being corrupted. Even Judah took a gentile for wife and God had all his sons killed because God did not want outsiders to have the kingdom birthright. Maybe they should have cut a little more and perhaps that would have made the difference. But the covenant of circumcision did not keep the Northen 10 tribes from going astray. There hearts were not set on the oath and covenant but doing what they wanted to do, not what God wanted them to do. In so doing, they corrupted their bloodline and blended in with the ways of the Gentile Nations.

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 3:07:54 PM PDT
Sarah says:
S No, what does your whole obscure sentence mean? "the only covenant is the Mitzvah"? what in the world are you trying to say? "this is the only requirement for boys or men to follow"? What are you trying to get at, exactly? None of this makes any sense.

M A gentile may become converted to Judaism but if he has no bloodline in his history he is not Jewish but just practicing the religion of Judaism.

S No, this incorrect. You seem to be very confused.

M: Truly I can't believe that you don't understand? So, all it takes is just to be circumcised and you don't have to follow the God of Israel?

S What in the world are you talking about now? and how does it connect with anything you've said or anything I've asked? Try to focus.

Posted on May 28, 2012 5:09:40 PM PDT
P. Besterman says:
Hashem is one, that is ONE ,not male nor female but a supreme being,at least in the Jewish faith if you don't believe it so, then worship anyway anywhere you like but probably ill advised to do so in a synagogue.

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 5:29:22 PM PDT
P. Besterman says:
The Bloodline you refer to as coming through the Mother is a much later Rabbinical legislation. If you notice in the Bible the Hebrew people were delineated by their father hence Yitzchak Ben Avraham. As for today a male is named son of his father and a female daughter of her mother, confusing I know but hey what can you do ?

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 11:35:02 PM PDT
[Deleted by the author on May 28, 2012 11:36:50 PM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012 8:00:23 AM PDT
Moshe Sharon says:
Bother Niv: Has there ever been a Father without a Mother?

Moshe: Yes. G-d has no equal and needs no partners.

Bother Niv: Gen 1:26 ¶And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: "Us" and "our". The image of the woman must be one of the others inclusive of "Us" and "Our". After all, God didn't make two after his image, an Adam and Steve, did he?

Moshe: G-d was talking to His angels. The reason He included them in the discussion about creating humankind is to show us that it is proper behavior for a leader to consult with his/her subordinates to treated other people with respect. The plural tense is metaphoric. The Torah contains lessons for us on how to behave throughout the entire text.

Brother Niv: I have my own idea about God's wife's name, but it isn't Asherah.

Moshe: I agree with you. The name of G-d's wife is not "Ashera"; it's B'nei Yisroel i.e. the Jewish people. And she is eternal. He married her at Mt. Sinai about 3,500 years ago. The concept of marriage i.e. male/female from G-d's perspective has nothing to do with human reproduction. It's about giving and receiving. The physical relationship between husband and wife is a mere manifestation of the supernal concept.

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012 8:06:51 AM PDT
Moshe Sharon says:
I. Dunn: But who nowdays is familiar with that original religion?

Moshe: Approximately 6 million Jews who learn Torah and live by it.

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012 8:12:32 AM PDT
Moshe Sharon says:
Dunn: My understanding is that modern Judaism and modern Christianity are both as far from 1st century Judaism as each other, just in different directions.

Moshe: Your understanding is wrong. There is no such thing as "1st century Judaism." And, we have the Torah today exactly as Moses recorded it in the Sinai desert. Of course, in many respect, we look a lot different than our ancestors with the way we dress, the houses we live in, the cars we drive, cell phone, computers, etc. However, our core belief system remains the same as when it all started.

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012 8:19:32 AM PDT
cbk says:
Bother Niv: Has there ever been a Father without a Mother?
Moshe: Yes. G-d has no equal and needs no partners.

Moshe, don't get pulled into a metaphoric argument in semantics. Let's first define our terms. Father and mother - When a daddy loves a mommy he shows his love for mommy by... ((**not for discussion here on Amazon**)). Now, if you want to compare God to a "father and mother", define who this love of His is that he is doing this to, and for. Since this is an exercise in futility let's save our time and realize that God is NOT a father like your daddy. God has everything; a daddy only has half the ingredients and needs a mommy. If it's necessary to go into the other differences that make this line of discussion moot, we can do that.

M: A gentile may become converted to Judaism but if he has no bloodline in his history he is not Jewish but just practicing the religion of Judaism.

No, if he has no bloodline in history, he isn't human and the entire point is moot.

Moshe: Approximately 6 million Jews who learn Torah and live by it.

On what planet can we find these 6 million Jews? (obviously not Earth)

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012 8:22:06 AM PDT
cbk says:
Dunn: My understanding is that modern Judaism and modern Christianity are both as far from 1st century Judaism as each other, just in different directions.
Moshe: Your understanding is wrong. There is no such thing as "1st century Judaism."

Moshe, his statement is an old trick by Xians (and arabs) to invalidate Jews and their beliefs by invalidating our history and redefining what Torah is.

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012 8:43:18 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 29, 2012 9:23:37 AM PDT
Moshe Sharon says:
P. Besterman: The Bloodline you refer to as coming through the Mother is a much later Rabbinical legislation.

Moshe: Not correct. The Mishna that deals with Jewish identity through the mother is part of the Oral Torah given at Sinai with the written Torah. The Jewish identity being maternal comes from the prohibition against Jews marrying Gentiles.

(Deut. 7:3): "You shall not marry them (the gentiles), you shall not give your daughter to their son and you shall not take his daughter for your son; because he will lead your son astray from Me and they will serve strange gods..."

Rashi points out that from the precise expression of the verse (he -and not she- will lead your son astray) we can derive two things. In the event that your daughter marries "their son," he will eventually lead astray your sons (in other words, your grandchildren, who will still be considered your sons) from the path of the Torah. In the event that your son will marry their daughter, her children are no longer considered your children, but her children. They are not considered Jewish.

The Rabbis simply recorded the oral tradition.

(Source: http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/148995/jewish/On-Intermarriage.htm)

Besterman: If you notice in the Bible the Hebrew people were delineated by their father hence Yitzchak Ben Avraham. As for today a male is named son of his father and a female daughter of her mother, confusing I know but hey what can you do ?

Moshe: Respectfully, you are the one who is confused. First of all, the father determines several things like the tribe, inheritance of property, and customs. The Kingship of the Davidic line is also determine strictly through the father, by which the entire Christian belief of JC having no human father negates the belief that JC was the Messiah.

Men and women are referred to as the son or daughter of either mother or father depending on the reason for calling the person by name. If you want to bless a man with healing you refer to him as the son of his mother. The same holds true for women. If you want to identify an individual publicly the man or woman is the son or daughter of the father. Also the four mothers, Sarah, Rifka, Rachel and Leah are equally credited with being the forebears of the Jewish people.

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012 8:53:14 AM PDT
Moshe Sharon says:
cbk: On what planet can we find these 6 million Jews? (obviously not Earth)

Moshe: If you count up all the Frum Jews living in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Southeast Florida, Dallas, etc, not to mention Israel, Europe, Asia, India, Australia and the rest of the world taking into account that Chabad and other outreach efforts are bringing Jews back to Yiddishkite every day by the thousands, you can't find at least 6 million Frummies? You are grossly underestimating the Jewish resolve.

In reply to an earlier post on May 29, 2012 9:08:21 AM PDT
Moshe Sharon says:
cbk: Moshe, don't get pulled into a metaphoric argument in semantics.

Moshe: I'm not being pulled into anything. I simply state the truth about G-d as our Father.

cbk: Let's first define our terms. Father and mother - When a daddy loves a mommy he shows his love for mommy by... ((**not for discussion here on Amazon**)). Now, if you want to compare God to a "father and mother", define who this love of His is that he is doing this to, and for. Since this is an exercise in futility let's save our time and realize that God is NOT a father like your daddy. God has everything; a daddy only has half the ingredients and needs a mommy. If it's necessary to go into the other differences that make this line of discussion moot, we can do that.

Moshe: Frankly, cbk, your comment seems condescending. I did not express any confusion about G-d being like a human father (G-d forbid!). I'm well aware of this entire thread being a ploy to mock the Jewish belief system, but by Divine Providence, we have the opportunity to turn this around and discuss the relationship between G-d and His People (The Jews) which is multifaceted, like a diamond; Father and children, Husband and wife, Monarch and His subjects, Teacher and students.
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Initial post:  May 16, 2012
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