Customer Discussions > Judaism forum

Questions that non-Jews may have about Orthodox Jewish practices

This discussion has reached the maximum length permitted, and cannot accept new replies. Start a new discussion


Sort: Oldest first | Newest first
Showing 76-100 of 10000 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on Mar 28, 2012 11:39:43 AM PDT
Omnireader says:
You could just google them.

Posted on Mar 28, 2012 11:43:48 AM PDT
ABOTA says:
RE: Noahide Laws,

How would Christianity and Islam (for example) be considered with respect to the prohibition against idolatry? Since Christians worship Jesus as God, does that preclude Christians from being considered righteous gentiles?

My question doesn't just apply to those two religions, but I chose them because they are large, well-established movements which present themselves as themselves as honouring the same God as the Jewish people do.

Posted on Mar 28, 2012 11:45:17 AM PDT
Uncle Pinky says:
Thanks for deepening the smile lines on my face!

All the Best on your journey!!

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 28, 2012 11:53:23 AM PDT
Uncle Pinky says:
There is a difference between a Noachide and a Righteous Gentile.
A Noachide has committed to consciously following the Seven Laws of Noach.

Jews believe that we are judged on our actions.
The righteous of all nations have a place in the World-to-Come.

A Righteous Gentile is person who has done something extraordinary to help Jews while maintaining their own beliefs.
The most obvious ones, in our time, are those who selflessly saved others during the Shoah.
As these women and men pass away their deeds are being revealed, many for the first time.

Nice question, ABOTA. Thanks for asking it!!

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 28, 2012 11:57:49 AM PDT
ABOTA says:
"There is a difference between a Noachide and a Righteous Gentile."

Thanks Uncle Pinky. Yes, I should have known better.

I remember seeing a display at Yad Vashem in honour of specifice righteous Gentiles, God bless them.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 28, 2012 12:02:47 PM PDT
Big Shmooz says:
Uncle Pinky, a Happy Breslover says:

There is a difference between a Noachide and a Righteous Gentile.
A Noachide has committed to consciously following the Seven Laws of Noach.

Jews believe that we are judged on our actions.
The righteous of all nations have a place in the World-to-Come.

Me: I find your above post quite confusing. Are you saying that a person who commits to following the seven Noachide laws is not a righteous Gentile? I would surely hope you are not advocating such an idea.

Also, who says that "those who selflessly saved others during the Shoah" are in fact righteous Gentiles? What is your HALACHIK source for this? Mind you, i am not even disagreeing. I just want to know where your source for this is located.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 28, 2012 12:05:28 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 28, 2012 12:10:10 PM PDT
Big Shmooz says:
ABOTA says: Thanks Uncle Pinky. Yes, I should have known better.

Me: No you should not have. I believe the two are synonymous.

ABOTA says: I remember seeing a display at Yad Vashem in honour of specifice righteous Gentiles,

Me: Postings at Yad Vashem (personally I believe they should destroy that place) do not constitute halacha. (Jewish law)

Edit: just so that you understand, the reason I believe it should be destroyed has nothing to do with their honoring of good people who saved Jews. It has to do with their bias in ommitting people who in fact saved many Jews only because these people who saved these Jews were Orthodox Jews themselves.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 28, 2012 12:12:52 PM PDT
ABOTA says:
"I find your above post quite confusing. Are you saying that a person who commits to following the seven Noachide laws is not a righteous Gentile? I would surely hope you are not advocating such an idea."

I think Uncle Pinky is making a distinction between a righteous gentile (a gentile who is righteous) and a Righteous Gentile, the latter being perhaps a more technical term to refer to Gentiles who have been honoured for certain deeds.

But maybe I should let you two duke it out. ;)

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 28, 2012 12:15:30 PM PDT
Uncle Pinky says:
Schmooz:
I find your above post quite confusing. Are you saying that a person who commits to following the seven Noachide laws is not a righteous Gentile? I would surely hope you are not advocating such an idea.

UP:
We are on the same page.

Schmooz:
Also, who says that "those who selflessly saved others during the Shoah" are in fact righteous Gentiles? What is your HALACHIK source for this? Mind you, i am not even disagreeing. I just want to know where your source for this is located.

UP:
Thank you for helping clarify my writing!
I should have used the term Righteous Among the Nations.
It is a term of art used by organizations such as Yad Vashem.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 28, 2012 12:16:17 PM PDT
Uncle Pinky says:
Nah - no duking... I'm a pretty laid back fella.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 28, 2012 12:45:15 PM PDT
jeffesq613 says:
I believe the Rambam disagrees with you. He says in Mishneh Torah, Laws of Kings, Chapter 8:

<Halacha 11

Anyone who accepts upon himself the fulfillment of these seven mitzvot and is precise in their observance is considered one of 'the pious among the gentiles' and will merit a share in the world to come.

This applies only when he accepts them and fulfills them because the Holy One, blessed be He, commanded them in the Torah and informed us through Moses, our teacher, that Noah's descendants had been commanded to fulfill them previously.

However, if he fulfills them out of intellectual conviction, he is not a resident alien, nor of 'the pious among the gentiles,' nor of their wise men.>

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1188353/jewish/Chapter-8.htm

BTW, that last phrase "nor of their wise men" probably is based on a printer's error in most editions of the Rambam. It probably should say "but" rather than "nor".

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 28, 2012 12:48:42 PM PDT
jeffesq613 says:
ABOTA: How would Christianity and Islam (for example) be considered with respect to the prohibition against idolatry?

Islam for a Gentile definitely is not avodah zarah, as it is a monotheistic religion. Christianity is a more complicated question, subject to a dispute. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shituf

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 28, 2012 1:04:25 PM PDT
Uncle Pinky says:
Well - I sit corrected.
Far from the first time.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 28, 2012 1:10:19 PM PDT
Are you saying one worships the sun, another worships the moon, and the other worships both the moon and the sun?

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 28, 2012 2:38:58 PM PDT
R. Pearlman says:
no Richu.
here is one lesson to think about,
if the sun represents the attribute of mercy,
and the moon justice,
both good things, when balanced.
Torah gives the proper balance in full context.
Christianity is supposed to be about mercy, Islam about justice.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 28, 2012 2:45:41 PM PDT
jeffesq613 says:
It seems to me the opposite is true, i.e. Yishmael (= Islam) represents the p'solet of chessed - too much loving kindness to the point of promiscuity; and Eisav is Christianity - too much din - bloody red; murder; hunter. For most of the last 2000 years, each has lived up to its role. That recently they appear to have switched sides may be evidence that Mashiach is near.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 28, 2012 2:51:34 PM PDT
Thanks, that makes it more clearer than your previous post.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 28, 2012 3:21:21 PM PDT
Bimheirah v'yameinu!

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 28, 2012 3:32:06 PM PDT
jeffesq613 says:
Amen.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 28, 2012 3:52:05 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 28, 2012 3:53:08 PM PDT
R. Pearlman says:
Hi Atty. Jeff ,
I think w/ Ismael we see in the eye for an eye, hands cut off, honor killings, ..
when Christianity (turn the other cheek..) ended up being cruel it may be because of the adage misapplied mercy leads to cruelty. So if they were too merciful w/ the wicked we and other good people were the ones who suffered.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 28, 2012 4:44:30 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 28, 2012 4:51:22 PM PDT
Lois says:
Yes, Jeff, that is what I understood from the Noahide sites UP gave me:
http://www.en.noahideworldcenter.org/

http://noahidenations.com

Is very diffrent when you actually commit to the 7 Mitzvoh. You have to have a certain amount of instruction and then go up in front of three Rabbis in a Beit Din and make your declaration.

It is quite interesting. B'nei Noach are welcome at synagogues - they have to identify themselves. The celebrate the Festivals and Holy Days and Sabbath - not quite the same, but pretty close.

But definitely have to want to do this for God, because He commands it, not because it simply makes sense intellectually!

Very cool sites!

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 28, 2012 4:50:36 PM PDT
Lois says:
KNYN,
May I know what this means?
I tried to find it and got the Song of Miriam.

I am always curious about Hebrew phrases, but it's up to you! =)

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 28, 2012 5:33:23 PM PDT
Emma says:
It's usually translated as "speedily in our days", used here (as it often is) as a hope that the the Messiah will come soon

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 28, 2012 5:46:15 PM PDT
Lois says:
Thanks, Emma! I like that.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 28, 2012 6:03:33 PM PDT
:)
Discussion locked

Recent discussions in the Judaism forum (935 discussions)

 

This discussion

Discussion in:  Judaism forum
Participants:  44
Total posts:  10000
Initial post:  Mar 23, 2012
Latest post:  Aug 16, 2012

New! Receive e-mail when new posts are made.
Tracked by 7 customers

Search Customer Discussions