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Just the Facts, Ma'am, or, Dragi's Ever Expanding Religious Knowledge Quiz and Croatian Crab Shack, part n++

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Posted on May 28, 2012 1:38:36 AM PDT
Dragi Raos says:
Ugh! Sorry for being less than my usual charming self in my last several posts :o)

Apologies both to Ed and to our much more measured gang. Willful ignorance and wasting one's intellect brings my Mr. Hyde out...

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 1:52:43 AM PDT
Dragi Raos says:
Ed, contrary to what those web sites are telling you, in science there is no glory in defending status quo. Successful iconoclasts are those who are remembered, and who get Nobel prizes (sometimes after considerable delay, I will grant you that, and some miss them because they die before their time comes). But throwing our arms in despair at every problem, puzzle or mystery we encounter, invoking supernatural "explanations", would leave us firmly in caves. We would not dare to tame fire, let alone endeavor to explain it.

Have some curiosity and intellectual courage. Don't let be spoon-fed nonsense from the sites you cite. Learn, explore, think. Science in general and evolution in particular are no threat to your faith, if it is strong enough. If you try, your will find God's glory in our marvelous Universe, with evolving life on this spec of dust that is our home just a tiny bit of it.

Posted on May 28, 2012 1:52:45 AM PDT
JJulieJ says:
Understandable, Dragi ;-)

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 2:34:50 AM PDT
Alina says:
Dragi, that's one of the most moving and eloquent exhortations to attitude change that I've ever read.

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 2:39:04 AM PDT
Beautiful, you are so eloquent.

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 3:12:45 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 28, 2012 4:46:51 AM PDT
Dragi Raos says:
Thank you, Alina & T.S. (Edit ... and Carol and Tui...)

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 3:36:34 AM PDT
Carol R. says:
Here! Here! Well put my man.

Ain't gonna make no difference to Ed though.

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 4:41:23 AM PDT
Tui Allen says:
Dragi, you may not be religious but I suddenly detect a spiritual side to you. I don't class religion and spirituality as being the same.
Can't be bothered with one but fascinated by the other and believe it is each person's own business.

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 4:51:41 AM PDT
Carol R. says:
Tui, you do???

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 5:05:48 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 28, 2012 5:09:44 AM PDT
Dragi

There comes a time to admit that the armor of ignorance surrounding an ideologue can be impenetrable. This guy has no interest in facts that don't fit his world view.

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 5:36:13 AM PDT
Beth says:
Very well said Dragi.

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 5:37:19 AM PDT
JJulieJ says:
Yes, I'm a bit like that too, Tui. And I agree that religion and spirituality are quite different, although the first may embrace the second I think.

I was fascinated by some of the facets of the Shinto religion in Japan when I was over there on holiday a few years ago, and by the fact that many Japanese embrace Shintoism and Buddhism and even Christianity during their lives - sometimes all at once. Apparently Christian marriage ceremonies are very popular.

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 5:38:08 AM PDT
JJulieJ says:
In other words, time to stop beating your head against that particular brick wall ;-)

Posted on May 28, 2012 5:42:38 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 28, 2012 5:43:17 AM PDT
The Origin Project

This might shed some light for all of us ;)

ETA Free

Posted on May 28, 2012 5:45:34 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 28, 2012 6:27:23 AM PDT
Interesting side note GnomeEd's favorite reference: Behe was a was the star witness in the Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District case - which ruled that intelligent design is religion and not science.

Unlike most people, I tried to read "Of Pandas and People" (the basis of the Dover case) just to see what it actually said. I gave up after about 20 pages of some of the most blatant misrepresentations I have ever encountered. The book amounted arguing against hypotheses that had been discounted before the Scopes trial. If it addressed any research done after about 1920, I'm not aware of it.

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 5:55:02 AM PDT
Carol R. says:
Not expecting any answer, but the book does look interesting AND it's a freebie.

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 5:59:08 AM PDT
Carol R. says:
PBS had a documentary on the trial. I believe the judge was even a republican.

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 6:22:10 AM PDT
John E. Jones III - appointed by George W

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_E._Jones_III

Interesting quote on criticism of his ruling in the case:

If you look at public polls in the United States, at any given time a significant percentage of Americans believe that it is acceptable to teach creationism in public high schools. And that gives rise to an assumption on the part of the public that judges should 'get with the program' and make decisions according to the popular will.

There's a problem with that....The framers of the Constitution, in their almost infinite wisdom, designed the legislative and executive branches under Articles I and II to be directly responsive to the public will. They designed the judiciary, under Article III, to be responsive not to the public will--in effect to be a bulwark against public will at any given time--but to be responsible to the Constitution and the laws of the United States.

That distinction, just like the role of precedent, tends to be lost in the analysis of judges' decisions, including my decision.

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 7:02:22 AM PDT
Dragi Raos says:
Sigh, yes... But I never learn.

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 7:05:17 AM PDT
Beth says:
We appreciate the posts even if the intended targets seem unmoved.

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 7:05:57 AM PDT
Dragi Raos says:
Thanks!

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 7:36:41 AM PDT
MaryAnn H. says:
Tui, I know this has weighed heavily on you but since no animals were harmed in your cheese gorging, you may simply recite three Doonesbury cartoons and you are guaranteed eternal bliss.

BTW, I was ordained via the internet right after Al Gore invented it.

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 7:40:54 AM PDT
MaryAnn H. says:
I thought you showed great restraint, Dragi, under very trying inferences.

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 7:47:10 AM PDT
MaryAnn H. says:
That goes back to a discussion either earlier on this thread or another regarding the roll of popular vote vs. legislation in civil/equal rights issues.

Popular vote determining curriculum, in public schools, would prove equally detrimental IMO.

In reply to an earlier post on May 28, 2012 9:22:19 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 28, 2012 9:27:09 AM PDT
That peripherally touches on what I personally believe is the true advantage of democratically elected government.

Contrary to what is often offered under the heading of "the wisdom of the mob" it does not guarantee good - or even competent - government. If anyone out there is willing to buy that one, I have a real deal on a bridge for you. History is just too full of counter examples.

The real virtue of democracy is that it allows the citizens to rid themselves of governments that have overstayed their welcome without having to line anyone up against the wall.

Though even that doesn't guarantee that you won't occasionally need to extradite the odd suitcase full of money ;-}

I would say that the US has been incredibly fortunate in how little of that particular form of corruption we have fallen victim to. Our record xixsx isn't completely spotless, but I'll match it against any other country in the world.
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